lucaspa said:
You seem to have taken this out of context. Proverbs is listing a whole slew of attributes of God. Let's go back to 30:4
"Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what [is] his name, and what [is] his son's name, if thou canst tell?
Then we get verse 5. See the semicolon? That denotes two separate thoughts. It is there to tell you that "he is a shield" is a separate thought from "every word of God is pure".
John 1:1 refers to Jesus, not the Bible! See John 1:14. The Bible is not like the Quran -- dictated by God. Nor is God the Bible. The "Word" is Jesus, not the Bible!
The Word is the Mind of Christ. And, we have been given that mind in the written Word. The term commonly translated, "mind of Christ" in the Greek could just as easily have been rendered, "the thinking of Christ."
Jesus lived by who he was. He summed it up in one statement....
Matthew 4:4... (I am adding some emphasis given in the Greek)
"But He (Jesus) answered and said, "It was written (in the past with results that stand forever) . . . "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that keeps on coming out of the mouth of God - to our advantage."
Jesus lived by every word. Now, we are to be imitators of Christ.
God does not change his mind. What he said in the past still stands true today, and will stand true forever. To see what is written is to see what God is saying today. If the Word speaks of past history, this is how we would be told about the past history if God were to reveal it for the first time today. That is the sense the Greek gives. So, to see what was written, is to see what God is saying. God also added in sections to tell us that certain issues in the Bible no longer are in effect after a certain point in time. I say that for those who advocate living under the Law of Moses. One does remove the band aid after the wound heals. Certain wounds have healed. Man is no longer under the band aid of the Law.
"By his stripes we have been healed..."
This is turning the Bible into God. False idol worship. Plain and simple.
It can become that. Just like anything else in life.
Sounds like creationism to me. Ignore what you don't want to hear from God in God's Creation, then make the Bible into a false idol to worship by saying the Bible is God.
The Bible is the thinking of God towards the believer. It is not God in itself. God is much more than what is contained in the Bible. But we are not ready for anything beyond what is now written. That will come after the resurrection and we are granted great powers to know and to see what we can not even dream of imagine in the state we now find ourselves. We are a larve compared to what will blossom at the resurrection.
And, of course, you would be among the few? Sorry, but this idea of having a few teachers that everyone had to listen to went out in the Reformation.
And, the concept of living by the Constitution went out during the Civil War. So? Does that make it right?
Really? Trinity was a majority stand. Is it wrong? The canon of books that are to be included in the Bible is a majority opinion. They are not the truth?
You say that after quoting what I just said? Which was....
geneZ said:
I always say this for those who believe the majority opinion is what God bases his favor upon. If you are going to find the truth (other than the very basic foundational teachings) you will not find it in abundance in the mainstream Churches thinking. It will be found in a minority stand in history.
I said... that there will be agreement on the foundational beliefs. You just mentioned two as a means to disprove what I said.
Then isn't it ironic when creationists say that the majority of scientists reject evolution and favor creationism? Isn't it ironic when creationism claims to be the majority view among Christians?
It seems that, by your argument, since creationism believes most Christians are literalists, that they are the ones missing the gate.
Not so fast, evolving one...
Young Earth Creationists are in the majority of believers. The Multiple Creation Gap understanding is in a minority of believers. For it requires concentration and an exercize of some academic ability to disern what the Original Languages teach us in Scripture. Most Christians want their emotions stimulated and not being forced to think. They refuse grace in this area. They want the choir to be preached to. There are only a few teachers who properly grasp and teach the GAP understanding. Its the only teaching that makes sense, if you are not going to reject Scripture as being God breathed, and are not going to give a closed eye to the fossil records.
Here it is for you to see for yourself.
http://www.custance.org/Library/WFANDV/index.html
And YEC has already been hammered into the ground by the Truth revealed by God in His Creation. Yet somehow creationism refuses to listen to God but insists on its human literal interpretation of the Bible. Why does YEC deny that God created?
They are NOT working with a literal interpretation. They are working with a watered down generic translation. They do not want to think beyond a certain point. To be demanded to accept parts of the Bible as needing academic concentration is anathama to them. They want it to be simple, yet sound complex enough to satisfy the need to feel they have intelligence; yet they refuse to accept the grace to concentrate on what is difficult to understand by an undisciplined mind, which makes many a believer to feel threatened, because they were poor students growing up.
Certain things in the bible are complex and require deep concentration. You will find this when you find someone able to teach directly from the original languages. There are technical words used at times that generic translations simply water down and move away from its intent. This is not a new problem with believers.
Peter spoke of Paul's teachings in like manner....
"Speaking of these things as he (Paul) does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other Scriptures." 2 Peter 3:16
You should. Scientists agree only when the data gives them no choice.
They have limited their choice. They refuse to hear any viable options.
Attend a scientific meeting sometime.
Makes all the arguments here look like a love fest. Look at the arguments between Feduccia and the rest of the paleontological community over the exact evolutionary lineage of birds or Wolpoff over the exact mechanism of the evolution of humans. That they agree that birds and humans evolved is testimony to the fact that they
can't disagree with that. The data is too overwhelming.
They have refused the data that says there have been multiple creations from the hand of God. YEC's also refsue to acknowledge this. So, we have a Hatfields and McCoys battle going on between the two. Both see just enough to know the other can not be correct, but both lack what it takes to have peace over the issue. Each side becomes more determined not to accept the other side because each side sees the other as offensive to their sensibilities. Its either those "heathen scientists." Or, those non thinking, superstitious YEC's!
Yet, there has been answer all along! Both sides can't see it, because both sides are too busy defending their pride. Pride is sin! Sin cuts one off from the leading of the spirit into all truth. As long as both sides keep operating in the modus operandi of pride and arrogance, both sides are being robbed of the opportunity of discovering the truth that has always been there!
http://www.custance.org/Library/WFANDV/chap1.html
Science works with evidence that is the same for everyone under approximately the same circumstances. So go look at the fossil record yourself. You'll end up agreeing with them, too.
I agree that fossils reveal a prior lifeform that we do not see today. Yet, God will once again create a new creation that will not be like the creation we see in our world today. He will do it once again, as he always had.
Isaiah 65:17-25
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and new earth. And the former things shall not be recalled, and they shall not be remembered.
18 However, be glad and rejoice forever in what I create. For, behold, I create in Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in My people. And the voice of weeping and the voice of crying shall no longer be heard in her.
20 There shall not still be an infant of days, or an old man that has not filled his days. For the youth shall die the son of a hundred years, but the sinner the son of a hundred years shall be accursed.
21 And they shall build houses and live in them; and they shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 They shall not build, and another live in them; they shall not plant, and another eat. For like the days of the tree are the days of My people; and My elect shall grow old to the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labor in vain, nor bring forth for terror. For they are the seed of the beloved ones of Jehovah, and their offspring with them.
24 And it will be, before they call, I will answer. While they are speaking, then I will hear.
25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed as one; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And dust is the food of the snake. They shall not do evil nor destroy in all My holy mountain, says Jehovah.
Now, those snakes and lions will resemble the ones in this present creation. But, you would have sworn that millions of years were taken to transform that lion into a grass grazing creature. And, millions to get the snake to lose its fangs and find sustenance like a an earthworm does.
There is an answer. You are just blinded by the data itself.
Grace in peace, GeneZ