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Linguistic Apologetics

Tone

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I have been reading some of the threads here and I have spotted a major flaw in how people attempt to convince athiests of the existence of God. They grant the athiests home field advantage and allow them to set the ground rules.

They do this from the very start, by referring to the Creator in the abstract. Then they proceed to use abstract concepts to further widen the field of discussion.

In turn, the athiest, who naturally is a darwinist, will expand the discussion more and more; ever evolving, until everyone involved is floating around at some distant location in a multiverse...in some magical dimension, where nothing can be proved, since gravity itself has been left far behind.

No, we live in a solid existence, with our feet planted firmly on the very ground Yahuah created in the beginning.

This Creator has created all things through His Word as He Spoke it into existence.

This Word is preserved in the Bible. The Bible is written to the people of this planet we call earth.

The Creator Who created man knows His creation through and through and so it is fitting that the One Who Speaks would create us to speak, and to write, and to read. So, to have a book that communicates a message from the Creator to His creation is more than fitting or appropriate, it is natural.

It is the simplest thing that one could expect...so simple, that even a child could understand it.

This is exactly what He has done for us. Yet, man, not content on being the child of the Father, has ever sought to complicate things and has fashioned for himself an imaginary world of abstractions, in a futile attempt to escape his human calling.



"Lewis’ style of thinking and literary technique have little to do with abstract speculations like "Metaphysical Evidence for God" or "A Treatise on Moral Absolutes". He used literary means and genres, rarely found in the field of Christian apologetics: poetic language, symbolism, myth, science fiction, novels, fictionary correspondence. Probably the most characteristic feature of Lewis’ literary style is his usage of metaphor, symbol and mythopoeic language. In his particular use of language, Lewis was able to employ his expertise in literary theory and history of literature, the field of scholarship which was his secular occupation...

In poetic language, we extend the ordinary meaning of words. Words which speak about empirical reality (a tree, a river, a stone) are used to look beyond the material objects, to signify what is not visible to the natural eye, whether it is inner feelings, moods or spiritual experience. One of Lewis’ basic convictions was that we are not speaking here about arbitrary artistic originality or creativity – there is actually not much space for arbitrariness and chance in using language metaphorically.

Lewis believed in deep and complex interconnectedness of the spiritual and material worlds.[3] He held that nature is not just a passive material for human creative (or destructive) activity. Natural phenomena point beyond themselves to extrasensual reality, to which they bear witness. Lewis saw the theological justification of this idea in the biblical doctrine of creation, which portrays nature as the herald of God’s glory and mystery (see especially the book of Psalms).

Lewis argued it was God who created nature with all its beauties, colours and shapes, and who also created man with his aesthetic sensitivity and imagination. [4]There is therefore a preordained harmony between nature, perceived by our senses and spiritual meaning, which we ascribe to natural beauty because we are equipped with God-given intuition and imagination. God did not leave it to mere chance how exactly His glory is mirrored in created nature. There is an interconnectedness between our God-given imagination, natural phenomena and spiritual reality which they reflect (as the psalmist says, God’s majesty is symbolised by high mountains, His awesomeness is proclaimed by the sky, fire symbolises for us His holiness, wind is a symbol of His Spirit, His peace is like a river…"
C.S. Lewis and the Language of Apologetics

I challenge any athiest to go back to the beginning..."to the natural things of creation", and to how these things were originally understood in the original language in which the Bible was written, and see the consistency between what is written and what is.
 
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ananda

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it is fitting that the One Who Speaks would create us to speak, and to write, and to read. So, to have a book that communicates a message from the Creator to His creation is more than fitting or appropriate, it is natural ... It is the simplest thing that one could expect...so simple, that even a child could understand it. ... I challenge any athiest to go back to the beginning..."to the natural things of creation", and to how these things were originally understood in the original language in which the Bible was written, and see the consistency between what is written and what is.
Why would an infallible being use fallible means to communicate?
 
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ToddNotTodd

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The same reason why any father would condescend to his fallen child.
I speak to my child as clearly as I can. And when he doesn’t understand, I personally intervene and explain things until he’s clear. Does that make me a better communicator than the Christian god?
 
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Tone

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I speak to my child as clearly as I can. And when he doesn’t understand, I personally intervene and explain things until he’s clear. Does that make me a better communicator than the Christian god?

The Father has done just this for me.
 
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ananda

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The same reason why any father would condescend to his fallen child.
Let me rephrase.

A fallible father would obviously do his best to communicate his teachings to his child, using fallible means, because that is the only path open to him.

Why would a supposedly infallible father use fallible means to communicate his teachings to his child?
 
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Tone

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Let me rephrase.

A fallible father would obviously do his best to communicate his teachings to his child, using fallible means, because that is the only path open to him.

Why would a supposedly infallible father use fallible means to communicate his teachings to his child?

see the consistency between what is written and what is.

Why is there noise, you ask? Because an enemy has made it so.
 
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cloudyday2

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I challenge any athiest to go back to the beginning..."to the natural things of creation", and to how these things were originally understood in the original language in which the Bible was written, and see the consistency between what is written and what is.
Can you expand on that? Do you mean that an atheist who reads the first few chapters of Genesis is going to be convinced that the Bible is divinely inspired due to its uncanny insights into our world?

When I read the first few chapters of Genesis I am dismayed.
- It doesn't match reality.
- It isn't a good story compared to other stories such as Gilgamesh.
- It doesn't say anything particularly profound spiritually as far as I can tell (as an allegory for example).
- It's embarrassing as a piece of literature. I know the Bible has influenced culture, and so it is an IMPORTANT work of literature, but it isn't an ARTFUL work of literature. There are a few areas of the Bible that have some merit as literature, but they are drowned in a sea of clunkiness IMO.

I haven't read a lot of religious texts, but I can say the Bhagavad Gita is a lot more appealing than the Bible to me.
 
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I have been reading some of the threads here and I have spotted a major flaw in how people attempt to convince athiests of the existence of God.
I read this with considerable hope! Is it that a Christian has spotted how people try to convince atheists of the existence of God by quoting the Bible to them? Or by assuming that atheists really do believe in God, but they're just angry at them? Or that Christians never, ever actually give evidence for God's existence?

Then I read a little more. Oh. Hope dashed.
 
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Tone

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I read this with considerable hope! Is it that a Christian has spotted how people try to convince atheists of the existence of God by quoting the Bible to them? Or by assuming that atheists really do believe in God, but they're just angry at them? Or that Christians never, ever actually give evidence for God's existence?

Then I read a little more. Oh. Hope dashed.

What were you hoping for, and how were you disappointed?
 
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Tone

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Can you expand on that? Do you mean that an atheist who reads the first few chapters of Genesis is going to be convinced that the Bible is divinely inspired due to its uncanny insights into our world?

When I read the first few chapters of Genesis I am dismayed.
- It doesn't match reality.
- It isn't a good story compared to other stories such as Gilgamesh.
- It doesn't say anything particularly profound spiritually as far as I can tell (as an allegory for example).
- It's embarrassing as a piece of literature. I know the Bible has influenced culture, and so it is an IMPORTANT work of literature, but it isn't an ARTFUL work of literature. There are a few areas of the Bible that have some merit as literature, but they are drowned in a sea of clunkiness IMO.

I haven't read a lot of religious texts, but I can say the Bhagavad Gita is a lot more appealing than the Bible to me.

So, you're saying it's like life here on Earth?
 
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Tone

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Can you expand on that? Do you mean that an atheist who reads the first few chapters of Genesis is going to be convinced that the Bible is divinely inspired due to its uncanny insights into our world?

I believe that if an atheist does an honest, open-minded, and thorough study of the Bible, yes, beginning...at the beginning; being mindful of the outlook of the original authors and their language--they would be struck by the truth of it.

*Truth being consistent with what was, what is, and what will be.
 
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Tone

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"The Hebraic conception of truth, while not denying the importance of correspondence, seems to have a different focus. The Greek conception of truth as a static property that pertains to propositions inevitably led to metaphysical speculations about "essences" and "universals." The Hebrew mind, on the other hand, seemed more focused on the dynamic, the changing, and the idea that truth involved the formation of the character of the person -- and the restoration of the world. Especially in relation to God, to Whom the Jew must give account, the nature of truth becomes grounded in the moments of decision encountered in one's life. Shall I steal? Shall I turn a blind eye to social injustice? etc....

In Hebrew, the word for truth, emet (אֱמֶת), contains the first, middle, and the last letter of the Hebrew alphabet, indicating that truth encompasses all things and endures from the beginning (א) to the end (ת)...

The word emet comes from a verb (aman) that means to support or make firm, and expresses the image of strong arms of a parent supporting the helpless infant. Truth stands in active relation to the one who is supposed to know it and "carries the burden," so to speak, by being the foundation of one's existence in creation...

The LORD Yeshua our Messiah is called the Aleph and the Tav (הָאָלֶף וְהַתָּו), "the first and the last" (הָרִאשׁוֹן וְהָאַחֲרוֹן). These are clearly divine titles that exclusively belong to YHVH (Isa. 41:4, 44:6, 48:12; Rev. 1:1,17-18; 22:13). Indeed, Pilate's famous question, "What is truth?" is a category mistake, since truth is not about "what" but about "Who." That is, truth is not something objective and static, a thing to be known and studied from a distance. No. Truth is up-close and personal. Understood in this way, truth is a way of living, a mode of existence, and inherently relational. It is a mistake to think of God as an "object" to be studied. No, God is not some static thing but rather a dynamic and forceful Person. Unlike the Greek philosophers who tended to regard God as little more than a "machine" (deus ex machina) or device that caused the universe to "get going," the LORD God of Israel is intensely personal, feeling, emotional, compassionate, angry, and so on. The Hebrew view of God is that of a Living Person, a Spoken Word, and a Fiery Breath that broods over the events of the physical world..."
Hebrew Word of the Week - Emet
 
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Tone

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I allow no “noise” in communication between me and my child. Am I a better communicator than the Christian god?

Does your child also allow no noise?
 
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