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Limits on discussing abortion in OBOB

Discussion in 'One Bread, One Body - Catholic' started by Tallguy88, Jan 23, 2017.

  1. Tallguy88

    Tallguy88 We shall see the King when he comes! Staff Member Administrator Supporter

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    Since the Church has made clear that abortion must always be opposed, it cannot be promoted in any form, including political pragmatism, in this forum. It can not be promoted as a human right or as a woman's rights issue. It can not be promoted as a means to an end. It cannot be presented as one life issue among many equal life issues.

    This rule will be viewed in the context of these two quotes from Pope St. John Paul II in the Gospel of Life:

    To claim the right to abortion, infanticide and euthanasia, and to recognize that right in law, means to attribute to human freedom a perverse and evil significance: that of an absolute power over others and against others. This is the death of true freedom: "Truly, truly, I say to you, every one who commits sin is a slave to sin" (Jn 8:34).​

    And


    Among all the crimes which can be committed against life, procured abortion has characteristics making it particularly serious and deplorable. The Second Vatican Council defines abortion, together with infanticide, as an "unspeakable crime".​

    But today, in many people's consciences, the perception of its gravity has become progressively obscured. The acceptance of abortion in the popular mind, in behaviour and even in law itself, is a telling sign of an extremely dangerous crisis of the moral sense, which is becoming more and more incapable of distinguishing between good and evil, even when the fundamental right to life is at stake. Given such a grave situation, we need now more than ever to have thecourage to look the truth in the eye and to call things by theirproper name, without yielding to convenient compromises or to the temptation of self-deception. In this regard the reproach of the Prophet is extremely straightforward: "Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness" (Is 5:20). Especially in the case of abortion there is a widespread use of ambiguous terminology, such as "interruption of pregnancy", which tends to hide abortion's true nature and to attenuate its seriousness in public opinion. Perhaps this linguisticphenomenon is itself a symptom of an uneasiness of conscience. But no word has the power to change the reality of things:procured abortion is the deliberate and direct killing, by whatever means it is carried out, of a human being in the initial phase of his or her existence, extending from conception to birth.

    As well as this portion of a letter from Pope Benediction XVI (then Cardinal Ratzinger):

    2. The Church teaches that abortion or euthanasia is a grave sin. The Encyclical Letter Evangelium vitae, with reference to judicial decisions or civil laws that authorize or promote abortion or euthanasia, states that there is a "grave and clear obligation to oppose them by conscientious objection. [...] In the case of an intrinsically unjust law, such as a law permitting abortion or euthanasia, it is therefore never licit to obey it, or to 'take part in a propaganda campaign in favour of such a law or vote for it'" (no. 73). Christians have a "grave obligation of conscience not to cooperate formally in practices which, even if permitted by civil legislation, are contrary to God’s law. Indeed, from the moral standpoint, it is never licit to cooperate formally in evil. [...] This cooperation can never be justified either by invoking respect for the freedom of others or by appealing to the fact that civil law permits it or requires it" (no. 74).

    3. Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia. For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion. While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia.

    Worthiness to Receive Holy Communion

    All bolding was mine. This rule is in effect for OBOB and OBOB Politics from this point forward.
     
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  2. Davidnic

    Davidnic Well-Known Member Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Since we now have the Traditional and Liberal Catholic areas OBOB will be a place to embrace the teachings of the Magisterium. There is no place (outside of Dogmatic definitions) that the Church is clearer than Her opposition to Abortion.
     
  3. eastcoast_bsc

    eastcoast_bsc Veteran

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    Now this is a good and sensible change.
     
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  4. Davidnic

    Davidnic Well-Known Member Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    I think so too. I hope that we can have OBOB be fully in line with the Magisterium and a place again where most Catholics feel comfortable posting. in the past that is when it thrived.
     
  5. pdudgeon

    pdudgeon Traditional Catholic

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    glad to see this!
     
  6. Cimorene

    Cimorene Happy Holidays!

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    Jw. If someone writes something that is factually incorrect about abortion or abortion laws are you allowed to give factual info?
     
  7. Davidnic

    Davidnic Well-Known Member Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Such as?

    But if you are discussing something like a fact of numbers of abortions, scope of a law...that is fine.

    If someone said that because a law that allows abortion saves lives or in their opinion improved them...that would not be allowed because the Church has said abortion can not work that way.

    But did you have a specific example in mind?
     
  8. MoonlessNight

    MoonlessNight Fides et Ratio

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    Certainly if someone claims something like abortion laws benefit a woman's health, it should be acceptable to explain how that is incorrect.
     
  9. pdudgeon

    pdudgeon Traditional Catholic

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    does this new rule also apply to OBOB Politics?
    that would be a good thing to clarify.
     
  10. Tallguy88

    Tallguy88 We shall see the King when he comes! Staff Member Administrator Supporter

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    Last sentence in the OP:

    This rule is in effect for OBOB and OBOB Politics from this point forward.
     
  11. Tallguy88

    Tallguy88 We shall see the King when he comes! Staff Member Administrator Supporter

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    Made this a sticky.
     
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  12. MikeK

    MikeK Traditionalist Catholic

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    Good rule! I'm not clear precisely what has changed though. The biggest gripes I get directed at me are when people lie about Planned Parenthood or abortion and I correct them. The evils of abortion don't need to be exaggerated, I figure, they stand on their own. That's been (errantly) called supporting PP by some, but I'd stick up for anyone who is being actively lied against without cause.
     
  13. Davidnic

    Davidnic Well-Known Member Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Not necessarily a change but letting people know that enforcement will be something that happens. As you know OBOB has always been Pro-life. This is just so people know it will be enforced.
     
  14. Winken

    Winken Jonah !!! Supporter

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    [deleted]
     
  15. Magnus Maximus

    Magnus Maximus Warrior

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    Amen

    Abortion is the most evil act on the planet and can never be tolerated
     
  16. Antigone

    Antigone The Wrath of Whatever

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    Since policy has changed, I'll ask this again: for my own reasons, I'm pro-choice. I won't defend that here and I understand advocating this position is against the rules, so I won't, but occasionally people ask me to explain my position. Would I still be allowed to do so (if necessary with a disclaimer) or should I do this via PM?

    Thanks!
     
  17. Davidnic

    Davidnic Well-Known Member Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    If asked, kindly do it by Pm.
     
  18. Antigone

    Antigone The Wrath of Whatever

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    Alright, will do!
     
  19. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    So that would include many common forms of birth control.
     
  20. Tallguy88

    Tallguy88 We shall see the King when he comes! Staff Member Administrator Supporter

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    Yes, it would include birth control that prevents implantation of a fertilized egg.
     
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