Limited Atonement

[Beoga]

I know that this is the belief that Jesus only died for the elect, but that is about all I know. I find it hard to believe this but I am still looking into it. Could anyone please explain this to me and give me scriptural backup.
Thanks!

 

[eutychus]

The philosophical way to solve the problem: Jesus died to save people, not to give people the opportunity to be saved. That's why he can be called the Savior.

Jesus referred to this when speaking of his sheep.
John 10: 14,18
I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.

John 10:25-30
Jesus answered them, 'I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me. But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. I and My Father are one.'

 

[rmwilliamsll]

Now, you are aware that there are different theories of Redemption. All Christians hold that Christ died to redeem, but all Christians do not teach the same redemption. We differ as to the nature of atonement, and as to the design of redemption. For instance, the Arminian holds that Christ, when He died, did not die with an intent to save any particular person; and they teach that Christ's death does not in itself secure, beyond doubt, the salvation of any one man living. They believe that Christ died to make the salvation of all men possible, or that by the doing of something else, any man who pleases may attain unto eternal life; consequently, they are obliged to hold that if man's will would not give way and voluntarily surrender to grace, then Christ's atonement would be unavailing. They hold that there was no particularity and speciality in the death of Christ. Christ died, according to them, as much for Judas in Hell as for Peter who mounted to Heaven. They believe that for those who are consigned to eternal fire, there was a true and real a redemption made as for those who now stand before the throne of the Most High. Now, we believe no such thing. We hold that Christ, when He died, had an object in view, and that object will most assuredly, and beyond a doubt, be accomplished. We measure the design of Christ's death by the effect of it. If any one asks us, "What did Christ design to do by His death?" we answer that question by asking him another—"What has Christ done, or what will Christ do by His death?" For we declare that the measure of the effect of Christ's love, is the measure of the design of it. We cannot so belie our reason as to think that the intention of Almighty God could be frustrated, or that the design of so great a thing as the atonement, can by any way whatever, be missed of. We hold—we are not afraid to say that we believe—that Christ came into this world with the intention of saving "a multitude which no man can number;" and we believe that as the result of this, every person for whom He died must, beyond the shadow of a doubt, be cleansed from sin, and stand, washed in blood, before the Father's throne. We do not believe that Christ made any effectual atonement for those who are for ever damned; we dare not think that the blood of Christ was ever shed with the intention of saving those whom God foreknew never could be saved, and some of whom were even in Hell when Christ, according to some men's account, died to save them.

from: http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0181.htm

from spurgeon the prince of preachers, i added the bolding

 

[Bulldog]

A better term migh tbe definite atonement, that Christ's death definitly accomplished the salvation of the elect, instead of just making it a possiblity for all. If Christ's death to not accomplish anyone's salvation, then there's the theoritical posibilty that none would be saved.

 

[Knight]

This is the single biggest hang up to people exploring Reformed Theology. The "Big L".

Everyone I've talked to who either struggled with RT or rejected it have done so because they could not understand Limited Atonement. I struggled with it at first too.

Regretably, this doctrine is either not well explained or not explained at all in many churches today. In fact, most theologies within RT are not even touched upon in many churches.

I cannot recall even one sermon that taught either divine election or eternal security in the church I grew up in.

It's sad......

 

[Bulldog]

This is the single biggest hang up to people exploring Reformed Theology. The "Big L".

Everyone I've talked to who either struggled with RT or rejected it have done so because they could not understand Limited Atonement. I struggled with it at first too.

So did I, but I;ve gotten over it now. I have seen some Calvinist just dismiss Limited Atonment and take the other 4 points. However, when you take a point out, the others really don;t seem to make much sense anymore.

 

[Foundthelight]

The hangup for many is the misconception that Limited Atonement means that God has chosen some for election to salvation and some for eternal punishment. God does not choose anyone for punishment. We deserve punishment. No one is righteous in himself. It is only through God's grace that some are saved. We do not know why God choses some for salvation and not others. That is a mystery that is best for us not to dwell on.

 

[Knight]

The hangup for many is the misconception that Limited Atonement means that God has chosen some for election to salvation and some for eternal punishment. God does not choose anyone for punishment. We deserve punishment. No one is righteous in himself. It is only through God's grace that some are saved. We do not know why God choses some for salvation and not others. That is a mystery that is best for us not to dwell on.

Bingo. That is precicely how I have explained it in the past.

The trick is getting people to look past their preconceptions.

 

[Bulldog]

The hangup for many is the misconception that Limited Atonement means that God has chosen some for election to salvation and some for eternal punishment. God does not choose anyone for punishment. We deserve punishment. No one is righteous in himself. It is only through God's grace that some are saved. We do not know why God choses some for salvation and not others. That is a mystery that is best for us not to dwell on.

Exactly. It'n not like God takes a bunch of nuetral people and chooses there destination, it's that God takes people worthy of destruction and saves them. The others, are left to destruction and wrath, but it is all deserved for them

It's deserved for all of us, actually.

 

[ArchaDl]

Too true. Most people believe however that the moment they set foot in church they are saved. They also refuse to believe that they could possibly be sinners. This is a sad state of affairs in that people could think theyre saved and leave it at that.

We need to see that salvation, although not deserved, cannot be earned but only found in the grace of God. Every one of us is at risk of damnation but i feel our biggest task on earth is to forget about ourselves and give everbody a chance of salvation.

 

[Flynmonkie]

That is a mystery that is best for us not to dwell on.

This is my view, as that we really have no idea what God means by this and I do not believe it is for us to know. It is his alone. This still remains a mystery. Who's to say that God is not making the statements to this effect to remind us, that HE is in charge and is in control of hearts. God is absolutely sovereign - Not us. The only thing we can be responsible for is ourselves in this world. So I just share the gospel that we are all sinners and come short of the glory of God, and pray. Because once we Belive, we are instantly justified, and enter into the process of sanctification.

 

[Beoga]

Thanks for your input, i will still look into it. It makes sense, but it also doesn't, probably because i grew up believing that Jesus died for everyone.

 

[Wilfred of Ivanhoe]

Maybe I am missing the gravity of your question, but I find limited atonement easy to fathom and accept.

God is sovereign, all whom the father gives to Jesus will come to him and none will be lost that the father gives. Knowing that it is God that opens a man's heart to believe the Gospel and to have faith in Jesus, I no difficulty in proclaiming that to those whom God has left in their sins, Jesus did not die for that person.

Now, does that mean I should go around questioning who Jesus died for and who he didn't? I think the answer is no. That is God's mystery. In obediance, God commands that I tell the Gospel to the people in my life. Paul planted, Appollos watered, but God gave the increase. I am not responsible for saving people, that is God's business.

 

[Foundthelight]

I am not responsible for saving people, that is God's business.

You said it very well. We are responsible for spreading the Word, call it Evangelizing if you will. But, as you said, it is God who saves through the Holy Spirit.

We must not take pride in the fact that someone came to the Lord after hearing us or attending our church, but rather, we should humbly stand in awe at the action of the Holy spirit and give all praise to God where it belongs.

 

[Buttermilk]

Exactly. It'n not like God takes a bunch of nuetral people and chooses there destination, it's that God takes people worthy of destruction and saves them. The others, are left to destruction and wrath, but it is all deserved for them

It's deserved for all of us, actually.

So you are quite happy to believe then, that God has saved you by electing (selecting you) but He is willing and happy to send other members of your family to hell because they haven't been elected (selected). (I speak hypothetically here, and am in no way sugesting that any members of your family are going to hell, but I hope you understand my illustration).

How does that make you feel - honestly?

 

[Bulldog]

How does that make you feel - honestly?

Like I should be with them....

 

[Buttermilk]

Like I should be with them....

And the fact that you won't be...??

Or the fact that they won't be in heaven with you, not through their choice, but God's....??

How does that make you feel.....??

(Once again I am in no way sugesting they won't be, again I speak hypothetically)

 

[Bulldog]

And the fact that you won't be...??

....Shows how much God loves me

Or the fact that they won't be in heaven with you, not through their choice, but God's....??

This may sound harsh, but those who are punushed deserve so. They are recipients of God's justice and wrath. Those who aren't deserve so as well, but are recepients of God's unfathomable Grace and Mercy.

 

[Buttermilk]

....Shows how much God loves me

So God does not love the so called unelect then?

Mmm, Sorry the but the God I believe in loves everyone unconditionally , not just a small selection of people.

 

[Bulldog]

So God does not love the so called unelect then?

od has a general love for all His creation, but saving love only for the elct.