Like a Baptist, but don't want to be one

[All4Christ]

A reminder:

Looking for a church is a No Debate forum. Please refer to the Statement of Purpose.

We encourage members here to ask questions about churches and denominations, doctrines, practices, etc. in order to facilitate their search for a church home. This is not a place for debate, teaching, or proselytizing. Posts and threads of this manner will be considered off-topic and may be closed or removed. Please do not start threads here to advertise your congregation, these will also be considered off-topic to the forum.

Thank you for respecting this space as a safe place where others can find the church that suits them best.

 

[Hazelelponi]

The big deal to me is gender discrimirnation. How does the same church that pushed hard for separations between church and state violate the Equal Employment Opportunity Act by only allowing men to minister at their churches?

I never said a church must actually hire female pastors. I just don't want any church to have a policy that goes smack against the EEOA.

Sooo.....

You want your church to be separate from the state, so long as it's ran by the state..

makes sense..


As others have mentioned, any liberal mainline church it is!

 

[GodLovesCats]

Not run by the state, but complying with the laws. If any kind of nonprofit organization is under the EEOC mandate to let both men and women work for them, that should also apply to churches.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Newtheran, I also read Baptists refuse to accept modern English versions of the Bible as God's Word. It is the last version I want to read; in fact, I will avoid it whenever possible in favor of modern English Bibles. That is just a personal preference and I don't care if other people feel differently about the KJV.

 

[Newtheran]

Newtheran, I also read Baptists refuse to accept modern English versions of the Bible as God's Word. It is the last version I want to read; in fact, I will avoid it whenever possible in favor of modern English Bibles. That is just a personal preference and I don't care if other people feel differently about the KJV.

Different flavors of Baptists feel differently about Bible translations. Most independent, fundamental baptists and many regular baptists stick to the King James Bible. Southern Baptists use a wide variety of Bible translations.

The issue that those who reject modern translations have doesn't really come down to readability but reliability. The Geneva Bible of the 1500s, the King James Bible of the 1600s-1700s, and the New King James Bible draw upon what is known as the majority text, the extant Greek manuscripts that we have of which 95% agree.


However, along came Brooke Foss Westcott (1825-1901) was born at Birmingham and Fenton John Anthony Hort (1828-1892) at Dublin. In 1851 Westcott was ordained an Anglican "priest" and Hort in 1856: their careers were spent mostly in academic positions rather than pastorates. As early as 1853 they began work on their Greek text of the New Testament: this project was to occupy most of their remaining lives. In 1870 the idea of a modest revision of the A.V. was sanctioned by the Southern Convocation of the Church of England, and this provided the opportunity for Westcott and Hort to introduce their radical changes. They defended the inclusion of a Unitarian scholar on the Revision Committee. "The New Testament in the Original Greek" was published in 1881, as was the Revised Version based upon it: this latter failed to gain lasting popularity, but the Westcott-Hort text and theory has dominated the scene since.

And your modern "readable" Bibles are based on this (tiny) minority/critical text.

If you read some quotes from these skeptics, you'll see they were people who should have been anywhere near a Bible translation project.

Oct., 22nd after Trinity Sunday - Westcott: "Do you not understand the meaning of Theological 'Development'? It is briefly this, that in an early time some doctrine is proposed in a simple or obscure form, or even but darkly hinted at, which in succeeding ages,as the wants of men's minds grow, grows with them - in fact, that Christianity is always progressive in its principles and doctrines" (Life, Vol.I, p.78).

Dec. 23rd - Westcott: "My faith is still wavering. I cannot determine how much we must believe; how much, in fact, is necessarily required of a member of the Church." (Life, Vol.I, p.46).

Aug. 11th - Westcott: "I never read an account of a miracle (in Scripture?) but I seem instinctively to feel its improbability, and discover some want of evidence in the account of it." (Life, Vol.I, p.52).

1890 Mar. 4th - Westcott: "No one now, I suppose, holds that the first three chapters of Genesis, for example, give a_literal history - I could never understand how any one reading them with open eyes could think they did

1860 May 1st - Hort to Lightfoot: "If you make a decided conviction of the absolute infallibility of the N.T. practically a sine qua non for co-operation, I fear I could not join you,
(Life, Vol. I, p.420).

May 5th - Westcott to Hort: "at present I find the presumption in favour of the absolute truth - I reject the word infallibility - of Holy Scripture overwhelming." (Life, Vol.I, p.207).

Wescott & Hort

I'm not trying to attribute verbal plenary inspiration to the King James Bible as some do. Nor am I saying that it is perfect and cannot be improved upon to be more accessible to those who speak modern English.

However, modern Bible translation projects always seem to throw out the baby with the bathwater so to speak and instead of simply creating a 2019 non-dynamically translated Bible from the majority text and septuagint they turn to unreliable sources as the root of their efforts.

Hope that clarifies the issue some. It really isn't just an issue of English grammar and vocaublary.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Interesting information there, but nothing will convince me I should read a book that has horrible English. When looking for a church, I need to know I can fully understand every word without thinking twice about what the word is, which is not possible at the Baptist church near me.

 

[Albion]

When this give and take started, there was one issue to be resolved:

Because Baptists prohibit women from being pastors and church leaders, I am unwilling to join one of their churches...I am not Pentacostal for sure, but do share their beliefs on women in the church and different types of worship.

But since that time--and especially whenever any denomination gets mentioned that might qualify as the church for you--a different objection is raised in reply. So what, exactly, are the requirements that must be met for some, any, denomination to be acceptable to you, CforCats?

 

[GodLovesCats]

When this give and take started, there was one issue to be resolved:

But since that time--and especially whenever any denomination gets mentioned that might qualify as the church for you--a different objection is raised in reply. So what, exactly, are the requirements that must be met for some, any, denomination to be acceptable to you, Cats?

Of course "like a Baptist" (or Pentecostal) means I can't belong to a denomination that baptizes babies. It also means I prefer church autonomy, unlike the Methodists moving ministers on a regular basis. I know, all churches are different, but my mom attended a Methodist church that does both.

Not wanting to be a Baptist or Pentecostal also comes down to both theology and church operations, but I just have a personal preference to not read the KJV Bible. So when looking for a church, I have to know it accepts modern English versions to attend that church.

 

[Albion]

First off, thanks for running through this again.

Of course "like a Baptist" (or Pentecostal) means I can't belong to a denomination that baptizes babies.

Right.

It also means I prefer church autonomy, unlike the Methodists moving ministers on a regular basis.

Okay.

Not wanting to be a Baptist or Pentecostal also comes down to both theology and church operations, but I just have a personal preference to not read the KJV Bible. So when looking for a church, I have to know it accepts modern English versions to attend that church.

All right. That should be quite do-able, but it might be the RSV or NIV that is used, so I don't know if "anything but the KJV" is exactly your position. Those would be considered modern language editions.

And women's ordination was the issue that you started with, or seemed to. So without going back through all the posts, do we seem to have these items as the objective?

I really would like to have the forum hit on something that is what you are hoping to find before we just drift off into some other discussion. The American Baptist Churches USA fit the bill and may be the only well-known denomination that does so on all points, but if there isn't one near you, you will almost certainly have to compromise on something or turn to available non-denominational congregations.

 

[GodLovesCats]

The NIV is what the Vineyard uses and the one my sister used to teach me about Christianity. I would not reject all other modern English versions though. For me it is more about being able to understand it as an all-loving God who wrote the Bible Himself would want people to than saying the KJV is not accurate.

OK I will check out American Baptist.

 

[Andrewn]

However, modern Bible translation projects always seem to throw out the baby with the bathwater so to speak and instead of simply creating a 2019 non-dynamically translated Bible from the majority text and septuagint they turn to unreliable sources as the root of their efforts.

You wrote a very good review. I'd just like to make 2 points:

1) There are new translations that use the Majority Text of the NT, e.g. NKJV, MEV, EHV. And the Orthodox Bible uses the Septuagint OT. I named only translations available on paper.
2) Translations made from the Critical Text are not significantly different from those made from the Majority Text and there are no doctrines that would be affected by the changes.

I prefer the Majority Text bec it explains certain issues. But I encourage anyone who prefers a translation made off the Critical Text to continue reading their favorite Bible.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Update: I searched for all churches within 15 miles of my zip code on the ABC website and got no results.

 

[Andrewn]

I can't belong to a denomination that baptizes babies. It also means I prefer church autonomy, unlike the Methodists moving ministers on a regular basis. I know, all churches are different, but my mom attended a Methodist church that does both. Not wanting to be a Baptist or Pentecostal also comes down to both theology and church operations,

You previously wrote that the church has to be within a walking distance from your residence. I consider this the main criterion in your search. A list of the churches within a walking distance cannot be that long.

So, if you post a list of the denominations to which these churches belong, I'm sure someone will find the best match for you. People here are nice and love to help.

 

[GodLovesCats]

You previously wrote that the church has to be within a walking distance from your residence. I consider this the main criterion in your search. A list of the churches within a walking distance cannot be that long.

So, if you post a list of the denominations to which these churches belong, I'm sure someone will find the best match for you. People here are nice and love to help.

The churches I can walk to are:

• Christian Scientist
• Lutheran (school)
• Baptist
• Presbyterian

 

[Albion]

The churches I can walk to are:

• Christian Scientist
• Lutheran (school)
• Baptist
• Presbyterian

Based on everything you have told us, and if that is the total of possible choices, I would advise you to choose the Baptist church and live with its 'men-only pastors' policy (if it's one of those churches).

You just don't have much choice. The others are way off from what you say you are looking for.

 

[GodLovesCats]

I just went to Google Maps and counted the blocks in Satellite View. It turns out another Baptist church is closer than the KJV-only one my mom drives by every day. I never thought about that one because it's in the opposite direction and not at a major intersection.

 

[Tigger45]

I just went to Google Maps and counted the blocks in Satellite View. It turns out another Baptist church is closer than the KJV-only one my mom drives by every day. I never thought about that one because it's in the opposite direction and not at a major intersection.

Awesome, it would be great to know that you were able to visit and let us know how it went.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Awesome, it would be great to know that you were able to visit and let us know how it went.

I have not gone there yet and don't know what type of Baptist church it is.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Ugh, I just figured out there are no American Baptist churches in the entire southern half of America. So I have no chance of finding one of those churches.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Ugh, I just figured out there are no American Baptist churches in the entire southern half of America. So I have no chance of finding one of those churches.

Actually not true. I found that there are four in Alabama alone.

Find A Church – ABCUSA

The South can be slim pickings for Catholic churches as well, but they also exist. I do remember once that we were directed to a parking lot and the priest pulled up with a pickup truck and had mass out of the back end of the pickup.