Light years?

[duordi]

Ok, so there's no difference between Land and land. But no one has answered my previous post.

Can was married not to long before the flood as his family tree ends shortly afterwards.

Which indicates they were poor swimmers.

Incest is defined as a forced condition.

Marriage is OK between siblings if the genetic condition will not cause birth defects.

There genetics allowed them to live close to 1000 years.

It is possible they had nothing to worry about from the genetics angle so why not marry a sister.

The normal life span is 900 years and Noah had kids at an age of 500 years.

Do you know how many kids you can have if you have kids for 500 years.

I feel older just thinking about it.

At the end of every 20 years or so another group of kids start having kids, etc.

The math shows there could have been Billions of people before the flood.

Maybe Nod was called Nod because he was so tired from having all those kids.

Duane

 

[duordi]

By the way, would you say there are any theories scientists don't have a problem with?

No, that is why they call it a theory.

Theory means "guess".

That doesn't mean that it is necessarily an incorrect guess.

Duane

 

[Sascha Fitzpatrick]

Just wanted to pop in and say thanks for all the different opinions on my question.

It's all very interesting to me, can't say I've quite sorted it all out yet, but you've definitely got me more informed - which is what I originally wanted...

Sasch

 

[keyarch]

Ok so God created Adam and Eve and from those two, everyone came out of... if you keep reading Genesis, it gets to a point where it says that Cain went to another land (

land of Nod) and found his wife. And who named this land of Nod? Was it Nod who named it the land of Nod? Where did Cain's wife come from? Was she his sister? If Cain had been close to Adam and Eve and now he left that land to go to this other land, then why didn't he meet his sister before? Does that mean that Incest is not only possible, but were all incestuous progeny? So why the criticism in today's society of incest?



Either we read Genesis literaly and accept incest as something God is in favor of, or we read Genesis not so literaly.



(notice "land of Nod" not "Land of Nod")

Corrections:

1. Cain did not go to another land and find his wife. He “knew” his wife (which means they had sex). She was his wife prior to his banishment.

2. The land was called Nod after he settled in it. The meaning of Nod is “wandering”.

3. Cain’s wife was his relative for sure. She could have been his sister, cousin, niece or even daughter etc. (definitely not mother).

4. Incest had no meaning until later in history. There are genetic reasons now that weren’t a factor then.

I would be more concerned about whom Cain would have been afraid of (Gen. 4:14), and what kind of mark put upon him would be identifiable to everyone he came in contact with as someone not to touch. Also, why would they even know of what he did to want to kill him? If he was being banished from the tribe so to speak, then who would be there to confront him? I’m going out on a limb here, but I think its possible that there were fallen angels living on the earth even at that time, and that all the humans knew of their existence and were afraid of them. They would already know of this “mark” (a heavenly symbol) and stay away. Food for thought, huh?

 

[keyarch]

What if one could show the "stretching out" of the heavens did point to the inflation of the universe? And what if a century or so from now we discover that there was no inflation and the cosmological problems it was introduced to solve can be explained better another way? Tieing the scriptures to the scientific truths of one era, means that it will eventually be tied to outdated science. So why would God countenance that?

No, the author may have believed the heavens were literally like a big tent. In that he was wrong. But he was not wrong poetically. We can still appreciate the truth he was pointing to. Let's leave it at that and not make pseudo-equations to today's scientific fact, which, after all, may be tomorrow's scientific error.

Stretching of the heavens is not the stellar region, but the first level, between the waters. Isaiah 40:22, 42:5, 44:24, 45:12, 51:13, Jeremiah 10:12, 51:15, Zechariah 12:1.

(​

<y]m*v)*)) =Lower Heaven, our sky, to the bottom of the clouds.​

(<y]m^V*h) = Upper Heaven, including clouds to stellar space

 

[duordi]

Stretching of the heavens is not the stellar region, but the first level, between the waters. Isaiah 40:22, 42:5, 44:24, 45:12, 51:13, Jeremiah 10:12, 51:15, Zechariah 12:1.

(​

<y]m*v)*)) =Lower Heaven, our sky, to the bottom of the clouds.​

(<y]m^V*h) = Upper Heaven, including clouds to stellar space.

​

Hmm.. Good point.

That would fit.

thanks.

Duane

 

[Robert the Pilegrim]

Stretching of the heavens is not the stellar region, but the first level, between the waters. Isaiah 40:22, 42:5, 44:24, 45:12, 51:13, Jeremiah 10:12, 51:15, Zechariah 12:1.

(​

<y]m*v)*)) =Lower Heaven, our sky, to the bottom of the clouds.​

(<y]m^V*h) = Upper Heaven, including clouds to stellar space.

​

Is

there

any

particular

reason

for

all this white space?

Robert the Pilegrim

 

[keyarch]

Is there any reason for this white space

Sorry, the cut and paste leftover was fixed on my post.

 

[gluadys]

Stretching of the heavens is not the stellar region, but the first level, between the waters. Isaiah 40:22, 42:5, 44:24, 45:12, 51:13, Jeremiah 10:12, 51:15, Zechariah 12:1.

Wherever it is, the writer is comparing it to a tent.

Hebrew]<y]m*v)*)[/font]) =Lower Heaven, our sky, to the bottom of the clouds.[/left]

<y]m^V*h) = Upper Heaven, including clouds to stellar space[/font][/color][/size][/font]

The biblical writers had no concept of outer space. They may have located stars in an upper heaven, but upper heaven was not space. Our concept of space was only developed after the Copernican cosmology replaced the Ptolemaic cosmology in the 17th century. Ptolemaic cosmology did not allow for space either. It assumed an atmosphere within the sphere of the moon, but everything above was solid--mostly crystal.

 

[Robert the Pilegrim]

Sorry, the cut and paste leftover was fixed on my post.

No biggie, just curious

 

[Robert the Pilegrim]

Theory means "guess".

<sigh>
Although I am loath to turn to a dictionary for a "technical" term these definitions are pretty close to the mark.

When speaking of science, if you want an alternative word for "guess" go with hypothesis...

hy·poth·e·sis
n. pl. hy·poth·e·ses (-sz)

• 1. A tentative explanation for an observation, phenomenon, or scientific problem that can be tested by further investigation.

the·o·ry
n. pl. the·o·ries

• 1. A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
​

Now at the end of the list that the above definition of theory is part of, is the following:

6. An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture.
​

So your definition of "theory" isn't completely off base, but in applying it to the term as used in science, it is wrong.

 

[Robert the Pilegrim]

Can was married not to long before the flood as his family tree ends shortly afterwards.

Which indicates they were poor swimmers.

Incest is defined as a forced condition.

courtesy of dictionary.com:
incest: noun

• Sexual relations between persons who are so closely related that their marriage is illegal or forbidden by custom.

• The statutory crime of sexual relations with such a near relative.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

Force does not enter into it.

Marriage is OK between siblings if the genetic condition will not cause birth defects.

I would have to disagree, the prior relationship raises all sorts of difficulties including making a determination of free choice difficult to say the least.

[]
The math shows there could have been Billions of people before the flood.

And where are these bones and houses and ...?

 

[horuhe00]

Corrections:

1. Cain did not go to another land and find his wife. He “knew” his wife (which means they had sex). She was his wife prior to his banishment.

So where did this wife come from if the only baby factory in the world was Eve?

2.

The land was called Nod after he settled in it. The meaning of Nod is “wandering”.

Ok.

3.

Cain’s wife was his relative for sure. She could have been his sister, cousin, niece or even daughter etc. (definitely not mother).

Cousin, niece or daughter, at that time, with the limited gene pool, it would be the same as a sister.

4.

Incest had no meaning until later in history. There are genetic reasons now that weren’t a factor then.

If we are all a mix of genes from both our parents ONLY, then Cain was 50/50 Adam/Eve, any other brothers or sisters would be 50/50 Adam/Eve, children from those brothers and sisters(incest) would be... well, imagine it. It's too complicated to keep writing but I think you can see the problems that arise with incest.(deformations, retardment, etc.)

I would be more concerned about whom Cain would have been afraid of (Gen. 4:14), and what kind of mark put upon him would be identifiable to everyone he came in contact with as someone not to touch. Also, why would they even know of what he did to want to kill him? If he was being banished from the tribe so to speak, then who would be there to confront him? I’m going out on a limb here, but I think its possible that there were fallen angels living on the earth even at that time, and that all the humans knew of their existence and were afraid of them. They would already know of this “mark” (a heavenly symbol) and stay away. Food for thought, huh?

Yes, you are going out on a limb. I have no knowledge of that and haven't rea it on the Bible so I won't comment on that

 

[duordi]

I would have to disagree, the prior relationship raises all sorts of difficulties including making a determination of free choice difficult to say the least.

You are trying to view them from our culture.

If someone has children for 500 years, how well do you know your siblings?
You did not grow up with them. If there are 350 of them you may see them at the yearly reunion.
If you left on a trip of say 20 years when you were 120 and returned when you were 140 (still in the prime of life considering you will live to be 800+) then you have never met your sister.

And where are these bones and houses and ...?

Underwater as people tend to live by the cost, the the flood level didn't go back to the original water line elevation as the waters which were above the firmament remain on the Earths surface.
Remember the Earth is mostly underwater.

http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/phikent/japan/japan.html

Of course stone structures would last, houses wouldn't take the weather very well.

Duane

 

[keyarch]

So where did this wife come from if the only baby factory in the world was Eve?

The answer is obvious if she was a relative.

Cousin, niece or daughter, at that time, with the limited gene pool, it would be the same as a sister.

Yes, that’s what I’m saying.

If we are all a mix of genes from both our parents ONLY, then Cain was 50/50 Adam/Eve, any other brothers or sisters would be 50/50 Adam/Eve, children from those brothers and sisters(incest) would be... well, imagine it. It's too complicated to keep writing but I think you can see the problems that arise with incest.(deformations, retardment, etc.)

I’m not an expert on gene pools, but when you start with a pure one, then it seems like it would take many generations for that to start being a problem genetically.

Yes, you are going out on a limb. I have no knowledge of that and haven't rea it on the Bible so I won't comment on that

My supposition on this starts with the belief that Satan was a fallen angel that took many with him and that he was on earth from the start. Combine that with Genesis 6:1-4 and the fallen angels that mated with women (which is another topic) and you have the possibility that Cain might have been afraid of them. Nothing says when these “Sons of God” in Gen. 6 first appeared. We do know from the Book of Enoch that they took the wives during the time of Jared (460-1422), and the flood wasn't until 1656 AC (after creation).

 

[horuhe00]

I’m not an expert on gene pools, but when you start with a pure one, then it seems like it would take many generations for that to start being a problem genetically.

Any biology students reading this that can answer what happens when many generations of brothers and sisters mate?

I for one know that the Dalmation race originated from less than 100 dogs and now they have a lot of genetic disorders... Like having only one ball, and being retarded, among other things. So if that happened with 100 different gene pools, imagine what happens with only 2 gene pools.

 

[keyarch]

Any biology students reading this that can answer what happens when many generations of brothers and sisters mate?

I for one know that the Dalmation race originated from less than 100 dogs and now they have a lot of genetic disorders... Like having only one ball, and being retarded, among other things. So if that happened with 100 different gene pools, imagine what happens with only 2 gene pools.

I don't disagree with you with respect to the current gene pool. But what if there were little if no defects to be passed on or combined with other mates that had the same defect? It seems like the immediate family of Adam and Eve would have had less than any combination of today.
Again, this is just my intuition on the matter and not from a formal education on genetics.

 

[duordi]

I don't disagree with you with respect to the current gene pool. But what if there were little if no defects to be passed on or combined with other mates that had the same defect? It seems like the immediate family of Adam and Eve would have had less than any combination of today.
Again, this is just my intuition on the matter and not from a formal education on genetics.

After the flood the life expectancy when from about 800+ years to 120 years in 10 generations.

I am not saying it was all genetics but some of it could have been.

Duane

 

[horuhe00]

About that 800+ life expectancy... I read half of Genesis last week and noticed that:
1.) People lived 800+ years.
2.) Usualy the first mention of a son or daughter was when the guy was 120 years old.
Now,I don't know about you, but if I were one of a handfull of humans in the entire earth with my wife, I wouldn't wait until I'm 120 to finaly concieve my first child

 

[gluadys]

About that 800+ life expectancy... I read half of Genesis last week and noticed that:
1.) People lived 800+ years.
2.) Usualy the first mention of a son or daughter was when the guy was 120 years old.
Now,I don't know about you, but if I were one of a handfull of humans in the entire earth with my wife, I wouldn't wait until I'm 120 to finaly concieve my first child

Maybe Adam and Eve weren't created mature after all. Maybe they and their progeny took up to 120 years to get to puberty.

Just a thought.