Light years is a time measure

[dad]

I'd like to see dad's answer, but in the event it is similar: What altitude would that be, exactly. Because he is saying that the laws of physics begin to change when you leave earth. I'd like to know where this boundary is supposed to be.

So would I!! Since man has never even been one lousy light day away, we would be speculating though.

If we did the experiment with earth gravity and saw whether there was the connection with time difference that GR claims, we might be able to make progress on determining if time starts being different right here and now or not.

The atmosphere doesn't suddenly terminate at any point. It gradually loses density as you climb in altitude. Do dad's different-state physics start at sea level and get crazier as you climb? It there a finite boundary considered to be "off earth"?

As I mentioned on a table top, mere inches above each other, clocks were different! The issue is whether this is the pattern that starts here and continues...or not. There may be no need to make a boundary.

 

[dad]

What distance above sea-level do you have to be to consider yourself no longer "on earth"?

I would consider for the sake of the experiment that almost any distances would show a time difference! That is, if time starts to be different right here on earth. As mentioned we already know there is a greater time difference several inches up, then on a mountain, then greater on a plane...etc!

 

[Delphiki]

I would consider for the sake of the experiment that almost any distances would show a time difference! That is, if time starts to be different right here on earth. As mentioned we already know there is a greater time difference several inches up, then on a mountain, then greater on a plane...etc!

It sounds like you are vaguely thinking about general relativity, which already has a theory.

 

[PsychoSarah]

It sounds like you are vaguely thinking about general relativity, which already has a theory.

He is. How time is experience varies on the basis of relativity. However, being on earth vs outside of earth may not impact this as much as dad thinks, and this property does apply to earth as well.

 

[dad]

It sounds like you are vaguely thinking about general relativity, which already has a theory.

You can claim that GR is totally responsible for all time difference on and near earth. Maybe it is. However, the results of experiments were of a sufficient margin of error, in some cases, to question whether it is all that is at work.

Gravity bends time and space they claim, so if there is areas of greater and lesser gravity, we should see more or less difference in the clocks in these areas, at the same altitude, if GR is correct. Right?



"
In a bizarre experiment using the most accurate atomic clocks ever invented, researchers showed that clocks run faster if they are raised by just 12 inches."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...really-does-pass-quicker-higher-altitude.html

 

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[dad]

What distance above sea-level do you have to be to consider yourself no longer "on earth"?

Time dilation occurs mere inches up. It seems the pattern is the higher you go the bigger the difference.

 

[Seipai]

Time dilation occurs mere inches up. It seems the pattern is the higher you go the bigger the difference.

What sort of time "dilation" are you talking about? Gravitational time dilation decreases as you get further from the center of the Earth, at least locally. The change quickly approaches zero. You will find no safe harbor for your nonsense in relativity.

 

[dad]

What sort of time "dilation" are you talking about? Gravitational time dilation decreases as you get further from the center of the Earth, at least locally. The change quickly approaches zero. You will find no safe harbor for your nonsense in relativity.

Oh? That is interesting. Are you saying that the clocks in space or an airplane would be different than one on the ground in a way that means the one on the ground moves slower or faster?



"Just as Einstein predicted, clocks flown at 30,000 feet run faster than those left behind on the ground."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...really-does-pass-quicker-higher-altitude.html

 

[Seipai]

Oh? That is interesting. Are you saying that the clocks in space or an airplane would be different than one on the ground in a way that means the one on the ground moves slower or faster?

Not quite.

Let's forget gravitational effects right now. Let's take effects from relative motion only. If you saw a spacecraft zipping overhead and could see its clock you would see it going slower. Any one on that spacecraft that could see our clocks would also see them going slower. Relativity is a mind twister, but it works.

Now there will also be time dilation from gravity. The deeper you are into a gravity well the slower time will pass to an outside observer. Both of these effect have to be taken in account for calculations for a GPS device.

 

[mzungu]

Ha. Another wannabe obsessed with defeat. Anyhow, the big bang was a conclusion that was reached, and I am not alone in my contempt for the fable.

Hey, prove time exists as we know it here on earth in the far universe!!??

Run along sonny, you tried.

Sorry to burst your bubble (pun intended) but time is NOT what the hourglass or a watch or clock indicate. Time is movement. Time cannot exist if all movement stops all the way down to the planck level. Time and space are interwoven (3 + 1 dimensions) and is more commonly known as spacetime or 4th dimension. If there is no time then space cannot exist and if there is no space time cannot exist.

Your perception of time is that of a layperson and has no scientific bearing. You are obviously trying to redefine scientific definitions and this can only mean that your claims fall under the crackpot category.

Prove I exist here in Africa as you know it in America! Dear me

 

[Oafman]

38 pages, and light years are still a unit of distance.

 

[dad]

Not quite.

Let's forget gravitational effects right now. Let's take effects from relative motion only. If you saw a spacecraft zipping overhead and could see its clock you would see it going slower. Any one on that spacecraft that could see our clocks would also see them going slower. Relativity is a mind twister, but it works.

That brings to mind the question....does earth have area of different time per altitude? If we go straight up from Jerusalem, for example would time change exactly the same per inch as it does say, in Kansas at the same starting point altitude? If not, then something like a plane might fly over different 'time change zones'!? That might make it hard to determine what is due to the zones, if they exist, and what was due exactly to velocity. Ever wonder why the results in experiments are sometimes off by as much as 4%?

That is why it is best to stick to the simple up and down as I proposed in the thought experiment on different gravity zones we know earth has. One step ahead of ya kid.

Now there will also be time dilation from gravity.

Great so let's test this in zones where there is less and more gravity.

The deeper you are into a gravity well the slower time will pass to an outside observer.

So if a zone on earth has more gravity than another zone we should see clocks being different at the same stationary altitude, right?

Both of these effect have to be taken in account for calculations for a GPS device.

They sort of round it off and adjust as best they can, so it works. Why the time difference exists exactly is the issue, not whether it does.

 

[dad]

38 pages, and light years are still a unit of distance.

When considering how far light travels in a unit of time like a year, one must concede that time is built into the equations.

 

[dad]

Sorry to burst your bubble (pun intended) but time is NOT what the hourglass or a watch or clock indicate. Time is movement.

Objection: speculation. Movement takes time. But claiming it IS time is weak.

Time cannot exist if all movement stops all the way down to the planck level.

Says who? But it seems the universe does move for the most part, so I guess that is neither here nor there.

How much time was involved when people in a ship found themselves immediately on the other side of the big lake? Time is relative!

Time and space are interwoven (3 + 1 dimensions) and is more commonly known as spacetime or 4th dimension.

Meaningless if time is also woven in to a different space and a spiritual also universe. Your statement amounts to fishbowl logic.

If there is no time then space cannot exist and if there is no space time cannot exist.

Space? You mean space as experienced on and near earth? Well, what if space can exist and contain the spiritual also, as well as time that is unlike time as we know it? You can't know that.

Your perception of time is that of a layperson and has no scientific bearing.

Thanks. I strive for a superior view.

You are obviously trying to redefine scientific definitions and this can only mean that your claims fall under the crackpot category.

No. It means science is small and sidelined and plumb wrong. It is better described as something like 'man's extremely limited, physical only, present state near earth conceptions of the totally unknown'

Time is obviously bigger than what science thinks and claims.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

This is like watching a train wreck in slow motion... one wants to look away, but somehow cannot...

For those who are atheists or agnostic, please understand there are many Christians who actually know something of which they speak. No one has to abandon intellect and thinking in order to believe in God.

I know it sounds like that at times, but it simply isn't true.

 

[PsychoSarah]

This is like watching a train wreck in slow motion... one wants to look away, but somehow cannot...

For those who are atheists or agnostic, please understand there are many Christians who actually know something of which they speak. No one has to abandon intellect and thinking in order to believe in God.

I know it sounds like that at times, but it simply isn't true.

Don't worry, we are well aware that there are perfectly reasonable theists. There are plenty on here.

 

[Seipai]

That brings to mind the question....does earth have area of different time per altitude? If we go straight up from Jerusalem, for example would time change exactly the same per inch as it does say, in Kansas at the same starting point altitude? If not, then something like a plane might fly over different 'time change zones'!? That might make it hard to determine what is due to the zones, if they exist, and what was due exactly to velocity. Ever wonder why the results in experiments are sometimes off by as much as 4%?

Not due to relativistic causes. The difference in time is so small that for most cases it would be lost in the normal margin of error that is inherent in any experiment.

That is why it is best to stick to the simple up and down as I proposed in the thought experiment on different gravity zones we know earth has. One step ahead of ya kid.

Right, just keep telling yourself that dad. You are so far behind me that it is ridiculous.

Great so let's test this in zones where there is less and more gravity.

Why? It has been tested by simply going up and down a ladder. If you don't know why that would change the force of gravity you don't even have a high school level of physics training.

So if a zone on earth has more gravity than another zone we should see clocks being different at the same stationary altitude, right?[/quoite]

Again, not most clocks. It would take an extremely accurate clock to notice any difference at all. Your typical clock would have to much built in error.

They sort of round it off and adjust as best they can, so it works. Why the time difference exists exactly is the issue, not whether it does.

Um, no. Just no.

ETA: And I am still waiting for any Bible verses that support your claims.

 

[PsychoSarah]

That gravitational effect is so small that it has 0 relevant impact on how we experience time as the motion of atoms.

 

[Kylie]

Dad, have you got any evidence for your claims?

Please not that saying "You can't prove I'm wrong" is not evidence.