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Life on other planets

leftrightleftrightleft

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This is a multi-part question:

Do you think we'll find life on other planets/asteroids/in outer space?

When? (5 years, 10 years, tomorrow)

Where? (Mars, Moon, Asteroid, Moons of Saturn, Extra-solar)

And the bigger question:

What is life?

Our definition of life on Earth basically involves some sort of self-replication using organic molecules, but could there be some other method that we would also consider life. For example, if we found a population of things on a different planet that "live forever" (no self-replication) and are composed of inorganic metals but, by some mechanism, moved, communicated etc. Would that be life also? (You'll notice I just described a robot or computer, but if we found it on a different planet what would we make of it? Especially if it has other human qualities like culture, music and language.)
 

Agonaces of Susa

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Do you think we'll find life on other planets/asteroids/in outer space?
It is already known from antiquity and history that there is life on other planets.

"Between the celestials [angels] and the Asuras [fallen angels], there happened, of yore, frequent encounters for the sovereignty of the three worlds with everything in them." -- Mahabharata, Book I: Adi Parva, Section LXXVI, 8th century B.C.

"If thou fliest beyond the limits of the three worlds...." -- Mahabharata, Book V: Udyoga Parva, Section CLXIII, 8th century B.C.

"And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire. Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man." -- Ezekial 1:4-5

"... ye are of this world; I am not of this world." -- Jesus Christ, extraterrestrial, John 8:23

"And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold ...." -- Jesus Christ, extraterrestrial, John 10:16

"Democritus, Epicurus, and their scholar Metrodorus affirm that there are infinite worlds in an infinite space ...." -- Plutarch, historian, 1st century

"Alexander wept when he heard from Anaxarchus that there was an infinite number of worlds; and his friends asking him if any accident had befallen him, he returns this answer: 'Do you not think it a matter worthy of lamentation that when there is such a vast multitude of them, we have not yet conquered one?'" -- Plutarch, historian, 1st century

"He [Democritus] said that the ordered worlds are boundless and differ in size, and that in some there is neither sun nor moon, but that in others, both are greater than with us, and yet with others more in number. And that the intervals between the ordered worlds are unequal, here more and there less, and that some increase, others flourish and others decay, and here they come into being and there they are eclipsed. But that they are destroyed by colliding with one another. And that some ordered worlds are bare of animals and plants and all water." -- Hippolytus, priest, 2nd century

"... there are more worlds, and on them more creatures of beauty to be found." -- Immanuel Kant, natural philosopher, 1764

"... there are inhabitants in other worlds." -- Immanuel Kant, natural philosopher, 1781

"... the sixteenth century, an age -- as you must have been told at school -- when it was the great fashion among poets to make the denizens and powers of higher worlds descend on earth and mix freely with mortals...." -- Fyodor Dostoyevsky, author, The Brothers Karamazov, 1880

"Perhaps the major lesson to be learned so far from looking for planets around other stars is that nature can make a lot more planets than we can dream of." -- Alan P. Boss, astrophysicist, October 2008

When? (5 years, 10 years, tomorrow)
In ancient times.

Where? (Mars, Moon, Asteroid, Moons of Saturn, Extra-solar)
It is known that mermen came from the Sirius star system and centaurs and centauroids came from the Centauri star system.

"... put kind medicines on it,
good ones, which they say you have been told of by Achilleus,
since Cheiron, most righteous of the Centaurs, told him about them."
-- Homer, poet, Iliad, Book XI: 830-832, 8th century B.C.

"The son of bold Ixion, Pirithous wedding Hippodame, had asked as guests the cloud-born centaurs to recline around the ordered tables, in a cool cave, set under some shading trees. Thessalian chiefs were there and I [Nestor] myself was with them there." -- Ovid, poet, Metamorphoses, Book XII, 1st century B.C.

"In the first year there appeared, from that part of the Erythræan sea which borders upon Babylonia, an animal destitute of reason, by name Oannes, whose whole body (according to the account of Apollodorus) was that of a fish; that under the fish's head he had another head, with feet also below, similar to those of a man, subjoined to the fish's tail. His voice too, and language, was articulate and human; and a representation of him is preserved even to this day. This Being was accustomed to pass the day among men; but took no food at that season; and he gave them an insight into letters and sciences, and arts of every kind. He taught them to construct cities, to found temples, to compile laws, and explained to them the principles of geometrical knowledge. He made them distinguish the seeds of the earth, and shewed them how to collect the fruits; in short, he instructed them in every thing which could tend to soften manners and humanize their lives. From that time, nothing material has been added by way of improvement to his instructions. And when the sun had set, this Being Oannes, retired again into the sea, and passed the night in the deep; for he was amphibious." -- Lucius C. Alexander "Polyhistor", historian, 1st century
 
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Exiledoomsayer

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This is a multi-part question:

Do you think we'll find life on other planets/asteroids/in outer space?
Yes, although its possible we won't.

When? (5 years, 10 years, tomorrow)
I would like to think within our lifetime but really I doubt it. Seems like we would need even better equipment if we are going to find life, we can barely find giant planets as it is.

Where? (Mars, Moon, Asteroid, Moons of Saturn, Extra-solar)
Id say extra-solar if only because having it so close by would be too easy ;)

And the bigger question:

What is life?

Our definition of life on Earth basically involves some sort of self-replication using organic molecules, but could there be some other method that we would also consider life. For example, if we found a population of things on a different planet that "live forever" (no self-replication) and are composed of inorganic metals but, by some mechanism, moved, communicated etc. Would that be life also? (You'll notice I just described a robot or computer, but if we found it on a different planet what would we make of it? Especially if it has other human qualities like culture, music and language.)
I am not sure if we would consider that alive. Though you could make a case that they are concious perhaps. If we found a planet of sentient robots would we consider them alive? I am not sure perhaps we'd have to change the definition.
 
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Blayz

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This is a multi-part question:

Do you think we'll find life on other planets/asteroids/in outer space?

When? (5 years, 10 years, tomorrow)

Yes, 5-50 years. I include evidence of now extinct life in the definition.

Where? (Mars, Moon, Asteroid, Moons of Saturn, Extra-solar)

1 and 4. Much later, 5.

And the bigger question:

What is life?

Given the ease with which protocells and micells form, anywhere with a standing body of water and a heat gradient/energy supply of some kind should have or had at some time in its past organic life that we would recognise as such..
 
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matthewgar

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Well there are good chances of finding life in our own solar system, if were just talking protocells, or early bacteria like life, or primative fish like things. But to find anything higher...probably need to leave the solar system.

The current canidates are.

Mars: Early bacteria on mars of some kind, due to the methane plumes that could have been caused by primitive bacteria and such.

Europa: It's water and heat from the gravity of jupter could allow primative cells, or even maybe something akin to fish to survive.

That one moon that recently showed some trace signs of possible life, or some kind of novel chemical reaction, due to elements that should have been there due to it's chemical makeup were not.

Plus who knows what else there could be. Just look at earth, we have life in the most insane of places, deep under the antartica ice caps, in way below freezing water *the pressure and salt content prevents the water from freezing* deep water smokers, highly accidic areas and other such hostile areas. Stuff that could survive well outside the so called goldilocks zone for more advanced life.
 
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lucaspa

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This is a multi-part question:

Do you think we'll find life on other planets/asteroids/in outer space?

When? (5 years, 10 years, tomorrow)

Where? (Mars, Moon, Asteroid, Moons of Saturn, Extra-solar)

And the bigger question:

What is life?

Our definition of life on Earth basically involves some sort of self-replication using organic molecules,

The definition of life is much broader than that. Life is an entity that has all of the following characteristics:
1. Metabolism (anabolism and catabolism)
2. Growth
3. Response to stimuli
4. Reproduction.

As several science fiction scenarios have pointed out, it's possible that non-organic entities could have those attributes (such as life based on silicon) or perhaps energy patterns.

For example, if we found a population of things on a different planet that "live forever" (no self-replication) and are composed of inorganic metals but, by some mechanism, moved, communicated etc. Would that be life also?

Nothing can live forever. The Second Law will get you eventually. But if they satisfied the first 3 criteria? Perhaps. Especially if they could demonstate sapience.

Where? Possibly Europa. It looks like Mars is now lifeless, but microbes could possibly survive there. We have looked at so little of Mars.

Otherwise, we are left with planets of other stars.
 
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Michael

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This is a multi-part question:

Do you think we'll find life on other planets/asteroids/in outer space?

Yes.

When? (5 years, 10 years, tomorrow)

That's hard to say. It's "possible" it could happen that soon, but only if life exists elsewhere *inside* this particular solar system. That's not a given so it could still be awhile.

Where? (Mars, Moon, Asteroid, Moons of Saturn, Extra-solar)

My best guesses would be underground on Mars, or one of the moons around Saturn or Jupiter. It's not altogether clear however that other forms of life inhabit *THIS PARTICULAR* solar system so I wouldn't hold my breath If I were you. :)

And the bigger question:

What is life?

Our definition of life on Earth basically involves some sort of self-replication using organic molecules, but could there be some other method that we would also consider life. For example, if we found a population of things on a different planet that "live forever" (no self-replication) and are composed of inorganic metals but, by some mechanism, moved, communicated etc. Would that be life also? (You'll notice I just described a robot or computer, but if we found it on a different planet what would we make of it? Especially if it has other human qualities like culture, music and language.)

It seems to me that "life' is so far limited to "organic" processes. We could create computers that "Simulate" this process I suppose but is that "life""? Hmm.
 
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juvenissun

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The definition of life is much broader than that. Life is an entity that has all of the following characteristics:
1. Metabolism (anabolism and catabolism)
2. Growth
3. Response to stimuli
4. Reproduction.

As several science fiction scenarios have pointed out, it's possible that non-organic entities could have those attributes (such as life based on silicon) or perhaps energy patterns.



Nothing can live forever. The Second Law will get you eventually. But if they satisfied the first 3 criteria? Perhaps. Especially if they could demonstate sapience.

A planet like the earth (or the Jupiter) satisfied the first three conditions, doesn't it?
 
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Ayersy

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This is a multi-part question:

Do you think we'll find life on other planets/asteroids/in outer space?

Eventually, maybe, or it'll find us. Who knows? It seems likely though. I'm certain there is another planet teeming with life out there. There's at least one planet we know of that's capable of sustaining life, so it stands to reason there could be more. :p

When? (5 years, 10 years, tomorrow)

I think it'll be quite a long time away, we've barely began to search the vastness of the universe, yet.

Where? (Mars, Moon, Asteroid, Moons of Saturn, Extra-solar)

No idea. Extra-solar, probably.

And the bigger question:

What is life?

Now that's a toughy... I'd say life is a conscious sack of meat which is able to think and act of it's own accord. Crude, but hey, it works.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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This is a multi-part question:

Do you think we'll find life on other planets/asteroids/in outer space?
Almost certainly.

(5 years, 10 years, tomorrow)
50 - 200 years time, I reckon. So quite soon.

Where? (Mars, Moon, Asteroid, Moons of Saturn, Extra-solar)
There's a good chance something similar to terrestrial life existed on Mars, and exists today in the various moons in the Solar System. If not them, then almost certainly some extra-solar body.

And the bigger question:

What is life?
Something is alive if it is a) the offspring of a self-replicating metabolic system, and b) metabolises itself. The ability to replicate is too narrow, since we would have to label all sterile people as non-living!

Our definition of life on Earth basically involves some sort of self-replication using organic molecules, but could there be some other method that we would also consider life. For example, if we found a population of things on a different planet that "live forever" (no self-replication) and are composed of inorganic metals but, by some mechanism, moved, communicated etc. Would that be life also? (You'll notice I just described a robot or computer, but if we found it on a different planet what would we make of it? Especially if it has other human qualities like culture, music and language.)
Arguably, they arose by some mechanism approximating evolution - it's either that or design, after all. So life creating life, even mechanical life, counts: Lt. Cmdr. Data from Star Trek was, arguably, alive, since he was the 'offspring' of a creature which created more of itself (in this case, Data was modelled after his creator, which is a form of self-replication).
 
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Wiccan_Child

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A planet like the earth (or the Jupiter) satisfied the first three conditions, doesn't it?
How does Earth react to stimuli? Though, arguably, the Earth has reproduced: it created the Moon.
 
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juvenissun

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How does Earth react to stimuli? Though, arguably, the Earth has reproduced: it created the Moon.

For example, if the sun shines harder, there will be more moisture in the air of the earth.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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For example, if the sun shines harder, there will be more moisture in the air of the earth.
That's not really a reaction to stimuli. A gnome knocking over because of a stiff breeze doesn't mean the gnome is reacting to stimuli, it's... acting, I suppose. A reaction would be something active the gnome (or Earth) does as a response to the stimuli.

Though it's giving me a headache trying to separate passive, lifeless reactions and active, life-ful reactions...
 
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juvenissun

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That's not really a reaction to stimuli. A gnome knocking over because of a stiff breeze doesn't mean the gnome is reacting to stimuli, it's... acting, I suppose. A reaction would be something active the gnome (or Earth) does as a response to the stimuli.

Though it's giving me a headache trying to separate passive, lifeless reactions and active, life-ful reactions...

I think you are touching the real nature of life. I agree. We will not able to tell them apart if we only use physical/chemical criteria. What is a biological process which is more than just a sequence of physical/chemical reactions?

Many people may say: none.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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I think you are touching the real nature of life. I agree. We will not able to tell them apart if we only use physical/chemical criteria. What is a biological process which is more than just a sequence of physical/chemical reactions?

Many people may say: none.
I agree. What differentiates life from non-life are the properties of the system. Can you tell me something that life has that non-life doesn't, that isn't a physical/chemical reaction?
 
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Agonaces of Susa

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Though, arguably, the Earth has reproduced: it created the Moon.
The key word being arguably.

I for one think that idea is preposterous and absurd.

"The stars did not yet revolve in the heavens; the Danaides had not yet appeared, nor the race of Deucalion; the Arcadians alone existed, those of whom it is said that they lived before the Moon, eating acorns upon the mountains." -- Apollonios Rhodios, librarian, Argonautica, ~246 B.C.

"These were Arcadians of Evander's following, the so‑called Pre-Lunar people." -- Plutarch, historian, Moralia: The Roman Questions #76, 1st century

"In the remotest times, before the Moon accompanied the Earth, according to the mythology of the Muysca or Mozca Indians, the inhabitants of the plain of Bogota lived like barbarians, naked, without any form of laws or religious worship." --Alexander Von Humboldt, naturalist, Researches, 1814

"The passages in Ovid as to the existence of the Arcadians before the Moon are universally known." -- Alexander Von Humboldt, naturalist, 1851

"We shall commence with a few of the principal passages from the ancients, which treat of the Proselenes. Stephanus of Byzantium (v. 'Apkas) mentions the logographs of Hippys of Rhegium, a contemporary of Darius and Xerxes, as the first who called the Arcadians proselenous. The scholiasts, ad Apollon. Rhod. IV 264 and ad Aristoph. Nub. 397, agree in saying, the remote antiquity of the Arcadians becomes most clear from the fact of their being called proselenoi. They appear to have been there before the Moon, as Eudoxus and Theodorus also say; the latter adds that it was shortly before the labours of Hercules [Mars] that the Moon appeared. In the government of the Tegeates, Aristotle states that the barbarians who inhabited Arcadia were driven out by the later Arcadians before the Moon appeared, and therefore they were called proselenoi." -- Alexander Von Humboldt, naturalist, 1851

"...the pre-Hellenic Pelasgian inhabitants of Arcadia called themselves Proselenes, because they boasted that they came into the country before the Moon accompanied the Earth. Pre-Hellenic and pre-lunarian were synonymous." -- Alexander Von Humboldt, naturalist, 1851

"Capture of our Moon becomes the only option, it cannot have been created from the Earth." -- Wallace Thornhill, physicist, October 2000
 
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