Lies, Euthanasia and the National Health Service

[Oneofthediaspora]

Hello, my name is Michael and I am a British doctor.
I qualified in 1997 and currently work as a General Practioner in a city in the north of England.

Let me make something very clear at the start of this post. I really could not care less how the USA goes about health care provision. I have no political axe to grind. I have no family living in the USA and I never plan to work there as a doctor.
How citizens go about accessing health care is none of my business.

Unfortunately, however, some politicians in the US and some pressure groups have decided to spread a number of lies about the British health system. As well as making me a little bit angry I think it is my duty to point out these lies on this website as I know that it is most commonly used by Americans. My goal is not to try and influence anyone in favour of nationalised healthcare, but simply to point out the lies and the liars and give you the true version. If you call my version into doubt then I would strongly advise you to research the information for yourself. A number of doctors who frequent a website called doctors.net.uk (an online community exclusively for doctors in the UK with about 120 000 members) are drafting a letter and gaining signatures from doctors here to send to President Obama and various agencies of the US media.

Lie #1. Chuck Grassley, most senior Republican on the Senate Finance Comittee claimed that Ted Kennedy would not be treated in the British system for his brain tumour because he would be considered too old under this system.
Complete and utter nonsense. My oldest patient is 102 and gets the same excellent level of care that is provided for my 22 year old patients. One of my patients at 89 recently underwent a prosthetic hip replacement surgery and the same pt is currently taking 12 different forms of medication for pain relief, ischaemic heart disease, hypertension, osteoporosis, chronic renal failure etc. All of which is funded by the NHS.

Lie #2. A group calling themsleves Conservatives for Patients Rights recently claimed on their website that anyone over the age of 59 in the UK was ineligble for treatment for heart disease.
What rubbish ! CF the patient mentioned above. Also my own mothe had a myocardial infarction at the age of 62. She had an angiogram and a stent was inserted with 5 days of admission. The NHS provided that treatment and also the lifelong prescriptions of Aspirin, beta-blockers and statins.

Lie #3. Sean Hannity on Fox News Channel recently highlighted the case of Mr Gordon Cook, a man from my home city who glued part of his tooth back on with superglue because he could not access dental care. Mr Hannity said, "If the Democrats have their way, get your superglue ready." Referring to the fact that NHS dental care is so inadequate that you will need to DIY.
What Mr Hannity failed to tell his audience, however, is that the reason Mr. Cook glued his own tooth back is because a) Mr Cook is very stupid and b) dental care in the UK was recently PRIVATISED. It's almost impossible to get an NHS dentist. Mr. Cook had no dental insurance and did not want to pay or could not pay.

Finally and most importantly, euthanasia is illegal in the UK. It has always been illegal and there are no plans to make it legal.
Anyone telling you that euthanasia is used in the UK is a liar. Simple as that.

 

[Oneofthediaspora]

BTW, obviously there are plenty more examples, but that is a representative selection for now.

 

[tulc]

Good thread!
tulc(suspects there wont be a lot of people posting here though, too many facts, not enough myth)

 

[oldbetang]

Hello, my name is Michael and I am a British doctor.
I qualified in 1997 and currently work as a General Practioner in a city in the north of England.

Let me make something very clear at the start of this post. I really could not care less how the USA goes about health care provision. I have no political axe to grind. I have no family living in the USA and I never plan to work there as a doctor.
How citizens go about accessing health care is none of my business.

Unfortunately, however, some politicians in the US and some pressure groups have decided to spread a number of lies about the British health system. As well as making me a little bit angry I think it is my duty to point out these lies on this website as I know that it is most commonly used by Americans. My goal is not to try and influence anyone in favour of nationalised healthcare, but simply to point out the lies and the liars and give you the true version. If you call my version into doubt then I would strongly advise you to research the information for yourself. A number of doctors who frequent a website called doctors.net.uk (an online community exclusively for doctors in the UK with about 120 000 members) are drafting a letter and gaining signatures from doctors here to send to President Obama and various agencies of the US media.

Lie #1. Chuck Grassley, most senior Republican on the Senate Finance Comittee claimed that Ted Kennedy would not be treated in the British system for his brain tumour because he would be considered too old under this system.
Complete and utter nonsense. My oldest patient is 102 and gets the same excellent level of care that is provided for my 22 year old patients. One of my patients at 89 recently underwent a prosthetic hip replacement surgery and the same pt is currently taking 12 different forms of medication for pain relief, ischaemic heart disease, hypertension, osteoporosis, chronic renal failure etc. All of which is funded by the NHS.

Lie #2. A group calling themsleves Conservatives for Patients Rights recently claimed on their website that anyone over the age of 59 in the UK was ineligble for treatment for heart disease.
What rubbish ! CF the patient mentioned above. Also my own mothe had a myocardial infarction at the age of 62. She had an angiogram and a stent was inserted with 5 days of admission. The NHS provided that treatment and also the lifelong prescriptions of Aspirin, beta-blockers and statins.

Lie #3. Sean Hannity on Fox News Channel recently highlighted the case of Mr Gordon Cook, a man from my home city who glued part of his tooth back on with superglue because he could not access dental care. Mr Hannity said, "If the Democrats have their way, get your superglue ready." Referring to the fact that NHS dental care is so inadequate that you will need to DIY.
What Mr Hannity failed to tell his audience, however, is that the reason Mr. Cook glued his own tooth back is because a0 Mr Cook is very stupid and b) dental care in the UK was recently PRIVATISED. It's almost impossible to get an NHS dentist. Mr. Cook had no dental insurance and did not want to pay or could not pay.

Finally and most importantly, euthanasia is illegal in the UK. It has always been illegal and there are no plans to make it legal.
Anyone telling you that euthanasia is used in the UK is a liar. Simple as that.

It would have been nice if you had provided some links to back up your charges. Regarding the alleged Grassley statement, it sounds quite credible. An 80 year old with inoperable and terminal brain tumor in the UK would most likely not receive treatment that he could purchase in the US.

 

[Oneofthediaspora]

It would have been nice if you had provided some links to back up your charges. Regarding the alleged Grassley statement, it sounds quite credible. An 80 year old with inoperable and terminal brain tumor in the UK would most likely not receive treatment that he could purchase in the US.

As I said, if you doubt what I am saying *you* research it.

An 80 year old with inoperable brain tumour would get treatment in the UK !!!. I can guarantee this 100%. Why would I lie ?
What possible reason would I have for lying about it.
They would receive chemotherapy depending on the type of tumour, radiotherapy, dexamethasone to reduce inflammation and antiepileptic to reduce the possibility of seizures. This would be funded by the NHS. As would any changes to their homes necessary if/when paralysis became a problem. When they reached the end stage nursing care 24 hrs could be provided as well as the best palliative care available so the patient could die as painlessly and peacefully at home with their family.

Which bit is different in the USA ?

I know this is is true because I have worked both as a hospital intern and now in community medicine here in the UK.

Why on earth would I spend time writing this if it was a lie !!!

 

[Oneofthediaspora]

Anyway, Ted Kennedy is 77 isn't he ?

 

[oldbetang]

Lie #1. Chuck Grassley, most senior Republican on the Senate Finance Comittee claimed that Ted Kennedy would not be treated in the British system for his brain tumour because he would be considered too old under this system.

You really shouldn't be so quick to classify statements as lies.

Here is what Grassley stated:

In countries that have government-run health care, just to give you an example, I’ve been told that the brain tumor that Sen. Kennedy has — because he’s 77 years old — would not be treated the way it’s treated in the United States. In other words, he would not get the care he gets here because of his age. In other words, they’d say ‘well he doesn’t have long to live even if he lived another four to five years.’ They’d say ‘well, we gotta spend money on people who can contribute more to economy.’ It’s a little like people saying when somebody gets to be 85 their life is worth less than when they were 35 and you pull the tubes on them.

 

[Oneofthediaspora]

In countries that have government-run health care, just to give you an example, I’ve been told that the brain tumor that Sen. Kennedy has — because he’s 77 years old — would not be treated the way it’s treated in the United States. In other words, he would not get the care he gets here because of his age. In other words, they’d say ‘well he doesn’t have long to live even if he lived another four to five years.’ They’d say ‘well, we gotta spend money on people who can contribute more to economy.’ It’s a little like people saying when somebody gets to be 85 their life is worth less than when they were 35 and you pull the tubes on them.

Yes well done. That bit right there that you researched all by yourself is "the lie". Read further because Grassley states this is what would happen in the UK.

You've bought into the lie because you are coming out with the same rubbish.

Now which bit of the treatment plan that I outlined above is different from the US ?
If the answer is none, then have the courtesy to edit your post and consider it a lesson learned.

Again, whatever way you people want to access health care that's up to you.
My concern is that you don't lie about my country and my profession in an attempt to persuade others either for or against nationalised health.

 

[oldbetang]

Yes well done. That bit right there that you researched all by yourself is "the lie". Read further because Grassley states this is what would happen in the UK.

You've bought into the lie because you are coming out with the same rubbish.

How could I have bought into a lie when no lie was stated in the first place? Also, where is the rubbish that you allege that I've come out with?

 

[JustOneWay]

I’ve been told that the brain tumor that Sen. Kennedy has — because he’s 77 years old — would not be treated the way it’s treated in the United States. In other words, he would not get the care he gets here because of his age.

lol

It isn't a lie....it is just perpetuating false information. Somebody else is wrong or lying. The oldest trick in the book. Gotta love politicians

 

[oldbetang]

Read further because Grassley states this is what would happen in the UK.

I can't seem to find that. How about providing a link to it?

 

[oldbetang]

lol

It isn't a lie....it is just perpetuating false information. Somebody else is wrong or lying. The oldest trick in the book. Gotta love politicians

But is it false information? How do you know?

 

[JustOneWay]

But is it false information? How do you know?

I dont know. My point was the phrase "I’ve been told" is an automatic way out of a lie. If it is true then it is. If it is not true then somebody else was mistaken or lying....

Any way you slice it, the politician told no lie....

 

[kermit]

It would have been nice if you had provided some links to back up your charges. Regarding the alleged Grassley statement, it sounds quite credible. An 80 year old with inoperable and terminal brain tumor in the UK would most likely not receive treatment that he could purchase in the US.

So unless the OP provides evidence that Grassley is lying you will choose to believe Grassley's unsupported claims. Careful, your partisan is showing.

 

[oldbetang]

So unless the OP provides evidence that Grassley is lying you will choose to believe Grassley's unsupported claims.

Is it too much to ask the OP to provide evidence that backs up his assertion? You will choose to believe an unsupported claim against Grassley? Careful, your partisan is showing.

 

[kermit]

Is it too much to ask the OP to provide evidence that backs up his assertion? You will choose to believe an unsupported claim against Grassley? Careful, your partisan is showing.

If you are asking me if I believe a British doctor who has no reason to lie over a politician, then yes. Yet you choose the believe the politician.

I don't choose to believe an unsupported claim. I actually know the claim to be accurate.

 

[Axioma]

So if I understand correctly, they're not LYING about NHS, they're just giving completely incorrect information about it. That's so much better.

 

[Steve Petersen]

If a person want to live, but NHS refuses treatment that would extend that persons life, how is that not euthenasia?

It doesn't have to be active. It can also be passive.

 

[kermit]

If a person want to live, but NHS refuses treatment that would extend that persons life, how is that not euthenasia?

It doesn't have to be active. It can also be passive.

Where is the evidence of refused treatment by the NHS?

 

[Steve Petersen]

Where is the evidence of refused treatment by the NHS?

1,000 cancer patient 'refused treatment' - Telegraph

One in four NHS patients denied latest cancer drugs - Times Online


Short Cuts: People over 65 are refused treatment on the NHS | News | Health Service Journal