licentiousness

[ChaliceThunder]

Not to the early church. Celibecy was preferable, unless you had to get married.

Newsflash:

We are not the early church.

 

[david_x]

Newsflash:

We are not the early church.

Amen to that. We have degraded beyond recocnition.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

Amen to that. We have degraded beyond recocnition.

It's really sad to see so many people who will not recognize the wonderful work of the church in the world.

The naysayers ought to get busy with mission and ministry and leave the crabbing to Alaska fishermen.

 

[Ohioprof]

Wouldn't the right thing be to obstain from anything sexual? Or in the extreme, get married?

I support getting married, but we are permitted to do that in only one state so far: Massachusetts.

 

[Ohioprof]

]It sounds like I do interpret this differently from you. This Bible passage sounds to me like a proscription against divorce.

Huh. I see God's plan for sexual union "one flesh". Man and woman. Not man and man. Not woman and woman.

Nowhere did Jesus say that everyone should marry someone of the opposite sex. Indeed, Jesus himself did not marry someone of the opposite sex. Everyone is not the same. Some people choose to stay single. Is that a sin because of this particular Bible passage? I don't think so. Most people are born heterosexual; some people are born gay.

Yep. There it is Jesus never says that everyone should marry someone of the opposite sex so it must be fine. This is an absurd argument on face value. Jesus did not mention pedophilia, bestiality, wife beating, rape, or number of other sins so they must all be OK as well.

People are not all the same, and this diversity among people is one of the great features of being human.

I agree, people are not the same. Some are Christians, some are Jews, some are Islamic, some are white, some are black, some are men, some are women, some have brown hair, some have blonde, some are homosexuals, some are heterosexuals, some are tall, some are short, some rich, some poor, some are adulterers, murders, rapist, and child molesters, some are not. Some are saved and some are. The road is narrow, diversity does not get you into heaven so what is your point.

My point is that God made us diverse, and we need to accept this diversity, not rail against it.

Being gay is not a sin. Expressing same-sex love in a committed relationship is not a sin. You are free to disagree with me, and that's fine. We'll just have to agree to disagree about this, it seems.

What gets us into heaven concerns me not at all, as I am a Universalist. I believe everyone is saved.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

My point is that God made us diverse, and we need to accept this diversity, not rail against it.

Being gay is not a sin. Expressing same-sex love in a committed relationship is not a sin. You are free to disagree with me, and that's fine. We'll just have to agree to disagree about this, it seems.

What gets us into heaven concerns me not at all, as I am a Universalist. I believe everyone is saved.

Amen, sister.

Not only should we accept diversity - we should give high and holy thanks for it.

And yes - everyone is saved.

Jesus said: When I am lifted up I will draw ALL the world to myself.

It's right there in black and white.

 

[david_x]

It's really sad to see so many people who will not recognize the wonderful work of the church in the world.

The naysayers ought to get busy with mission and ministry and leave the crabbing to Alaska fishermen.

Pride? Promoting yourself above others is not pride. (Take for example Paul "among sinners I am cheif.)

I support getting married, but we are permitted to do that in only one state so far: Massachusetts.

I don't think so. The states do not have the power to say what God blesses as a marrige.

My point is that God made us diverse, and we need to accept this diversity, not rail against it.

Being gay is not a sin. Expressing same-sex love in a committed relationship is not a sin. You are free to disagree with me, and that's fine. We'll just have to agree to disagree about this, it seems.

What gets us into heaven concerns me not at all, as I am a Universalist. I believe everyone is saved.

Than I guess we will have to let God do the talking, I will pray for you.

Not only should we accept diversity - we should give high and holy thanks for it.

Do not degrade the meaning of diversity to include the relm of selfish desires. People look different, we accept that. People refuse to change and better themselves, that we can not stand for.

 

[Ohioprof]

Pride? Promoting yourself above others is not pride. (Take for example Paul "among sinners I am cheif.)



I don't think so. The states do not have the power to say what God blesses as a marrige.



Than I guess we will have to let God do the talking, I will pray for you.



Do not degrade the meaning of diversity to include the relm of selfish desires. People look different, we accept that. People refuse to change and better themselves, that we can not stand for.

What do you mean "that we cannot stand for?" Why should it be up to you to decide how other people live their lives? You are free to live according to your beliefs, but I really think it's not your business to tell other people how they should live.

You are free to pray for me, but I would prefer that you didn't.

As for civil marriage, that is up to the states in the United States. Your church can determine whom they will recognize as married under your religion, but civil marriage is not dictated by any religion, nor should it be.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

Pride? Promoting yourself above others is not pride. (Take for example Paul "among sinners I am cheif.)



I don't think so. The states do not have the power to say what God blesses as a marrige.



Than I guess we will have to let God do the talking, I will pray for you.



Do not degrade the meaning of diversity to include the relm of selfish desires. People look different, we accept that. People refuse to change and better themselves, that we can not stand for.

Pride? Not at all.
But we ought to give thanks for the faithful witness of the Church. And many of those faithful witnesses are gays and lesbians.

Who says being gay is in the realm of selfish desire?
Certainly NOT God!

(And God does not call us to change from being who he created us to be)

 

[HaloHope]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ChaliceThunder again.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Ohioprof again.

Fantastic posts.

Homosexuality and loving monogamous relationships between people of the same-sex are not remotely selfish, wrong or immoral. I BELIEVE (I'm going to start putting BELIEVE in caps now as I'm sick to death of people arrogantly proclaiming they KNOW when they don't as it's a BELIEF.) that God can be glorified through a same-sex relationship that is centered on him.

I get tired of constantly being told my relationship is all about "selfish desire" etc.. when my relationship is entirely about love, not sex. Do people here genuinally assume I spend my free time constantly having sex or something? No, it dosen't. Yesterday I was busy at work and didn't even SEE my partner all day, today we are going to catch a movie and have a picnic and funnily enough the enjoyment will come from each others company and the emotional bond we share, not sex. Sex is just something couples do to express that love (hopefully after making a lifelong commitment to each other, as that is the way it should be).

While I myself have been guilty of it the past lately I have realized how incredibly irritating it is to have someone say "I'll pray for you" when you don't want to be prayed for. Especially when they (brimming with Christian love and charity of course /sarcasm) are praying for an incredibly fulfilling and happy relationship to come to an end just because they don't like what you might or might not do in the bedroom. By all means pray for me but ask me what I would like prayed about first, or at least have the decency to not say it to me as it is intensly patronising and judgemental.

Anyway end of my minor rant (for now)

 

[david_x]

What do you mean "that we cannot stand for?" Why should it be up to you to decide how other people live their lives? You are free to live according to your beliefs, but I really think it's not your business to tell other people how they should live.

I am not talking about people in general. Let the world do what it wants. I am concerned about my brothers and sisters in Christ.

You are free to pray for me, but I would prefer that you didn't.

I would only ever pray that you see the truth.

As for civil marriage, that is up to the states in the United States. Your church can determine whom they will recognize as married under your religion, but civil marriage is not dictated by any religion, nor should it be.

Marrige has nothing to do with the Church nor the states nor any power here on earth. God alone can bind someone to another in matromony.

(And God does not call us to change from being who he created us to be)

Ephesians 4:22-24 (Amplified Bible)


22Strip yourselves of your former nature [put off and discard your old unrenewed self] which characterized your previous manner of life and becomes corrupt through lusts and desires that spring from delusion;
23And be constantly renewed in the spirit of your mind [having a fresh mental and spiritual attitude], 24And put on the new nature (the regenerate self) created in God's image, [Godlike] in true righteousness and holiness.