licentiousness

[david_x]

Does homosexuality fall under the catagory of licentiousness?

 

[UberLutheran]

Does homosexuality fall under the catagory of licentiousness?

Sometimes, yes; and sometimes, no.

Just as heterosexuality can sometimes fall under the category of licentiousness; and other times, not.

Were you to come to visit so we could show you the "homosexual lifestyle" (whatever that is) in action, we'd probably bore you to death unless you really, REALLY like watching the Weather Channel or having discussions about climatological change in Verhojansk, Russia or Cape Esperanza, Antarctica (me); or you want to discuss ten different ways to make a meringue (my partner).

 

[david_x]

Sometimes, yes; and sometimes, no.

Just as heterosexuality can sometimes fall under the category of licentiousness; and other times, not.

Were you to come to visit so we could show you the "homosexual lifestyle" (whatever that is) in action, we'd probably bore you to death unless you really, REALLY like watching the Weather Channel or having discussions about climatological change in Verhojansk, Russia or Cape Esperanza, Antarctica (me); or you want to discuss ten different ways to make a meringue (my partner).

So that's a no?

 

[UberLutheran]

So that's a no?

It's a conditional no, or a conditional yes.

A gay person who is in a committed relationship is not "licentious".

A gay person who is going out to the baths or the bars for the purpose of having sex with a different person each night is

A heterosexual person in a committed relationship (whether or not than relationship has been formalized by a minister acting on behalf of the state by signing a paper stating that the couple are legally wed) is not "licentious".

The man or woman who is going out and picking up people at single's bars for sex is "licentious".

By the way, here's a scary thought: right now, at 3:15 am in Moscow, the temperature is 83 degrees F. Verhojansk, the coldest spot in the Northern Hemisphere, is expecting highs in the 80s this week; but Cape Esperanza, Antarctica is -6 degrees F with a wind of 30 mph.

 

[david_x]

It's a conditional no, or a conditional yes.

A gay person who is in a committed relationship is not "licentious".

A gay person who is going out to the baths or the bars for the purpose of having sex with a different person each night is

A heterosexual person in a committed relationship (whether or not than relationship has been formalized by a minister acting on behalf of the state by signing a paper stating that the couple are legally wed) is not "licentious".

The man or woman who is going out and picking up people at single's bars for sex is "licentious".

Oh, so a broad sexual theory isn't licentious?

By the way, here's a scary thought: right now, at 3:15 am in Moscow, the temperature is 83 degrees F. Verhojansk, the coldest spot in the Northern Hemisphere, is expecting highs in the 80s this week; but Cape Esperanza, Antarctica is -6 degrees F with a wind of 30 mph.

Yeah I think our heat index was well over a hundred here.

 

[UberLutheran]

Oh, so a broad sexual theory isn't licentious?

No, it isn't — and are you trying to pick an argument?

Sorry: I told you what I thought, and that's that. End of discussion.

Yeah I think our heat index was well over a hundred here.

See? I told you I could bore you to death with discussions about the weather!

 

[Apollo Celestio]

Yeah, it is. The bible pretty much spells it out for us what is and isn't in that regard.

 

[Zaac]

It's a conditional no, or a conditional yes.

A gay person who is in a committed relationship is not "licentious".

A gay person who is going out to the baths or the bars for the purpose of having sex with a different person each night is

A heterosexual person in a committed relationship (whether or not than relationship has been formalized by a minister acting on behalf of the state by signing a paper stating that the couple are legally wed) is not "licentious".

The man or woman who is going out and picking up people at single's bars for sex is "licentious".

By the way, here's a scary thought: right now, at 3:15 am in Moscow, the temperature is 83 degrees F. Verhojansk, the coldest spot in the Northern Hemisphere, is expecting highs in the 80s this week; but Cape Esperanza, Antarctica is -6 degrees F with a wind of 30 mph.

And because the truth of man is conditional and based upon his own selfish desires, God has given His Absolute Truth that is His Word.

As demonstrated by Uber's examples, licentiousness will make you think you're free when you're actually living in bondage to sin. It is a product of a person's own selfish desires and vices. It's a rebellious, sinful attitude. And it results in there being no repentance because the person can justify to themselves that what they are doing is not a sin.

18They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. 19Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more. Ephesians 4:18-19

Uber's rendition of the truth is tainted by his own desire to be licentious and thereby justify his wrongdoing as right.

His examples accommodate man's desire to appease the flesh.

If his examples are truth, then God is a liar. And as God cannot lie, then Uber's truth is WRONG.

The Bible says 1Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry2But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. 1 Cor. 7:1-2

The Bible also says 4Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral. Hebrews 13:4

Taking God's Word over Uber's word, there is no gray area to qualify a "longterm, unmarried sexual relationship" as anything other than what God's WOrd says it is: sexually immoral.

He recognizes the sin of the person going to the baths and having sex outside of marriage. But somehow has availed himself to miss the point that his sin is the same, and becomes no less sin just because he CHOOSES to be sexually immoral with one person instead of ten.

And keeping with the FULL COUNSEL of GOD'S unified Word, the heterosexual in such a longterm sexual relationship with one person outside of marriage is ALSO being sexually immoral.

Sin is not an issue of repetition. And it does not stop being sin just because of longevity or because licentious men think it should be less than what it is because they have been dedicated to the one person with whom they CHOOSE to commit the sin.

 

[UberLutheran]

Thank you for sharing that with us, Zaac.

 

[Zaac]

Thank you for sharing that with us, Zaac.

You're welcome Uber.

 

[UberLutheran]

licentious |līˈsen sh əs| adjective
1. promiscuous and unprincipled in sexual matters.


For the gay folks here: does this word describe you?

It certainly doesn't describe me. In fact, it doesn't even begin to describe me. Actually, it never has described me.

Are there any other character assassinations that the fundies and conservatives on this board would like to ascribe to gays (or liberals, or liberal Christians, for that matter)?

 

[Zaac]

licentious |līˈsen sh əs| adjective
1. promiscuous and unprincipled in sexual matters.


For the gay folks here: does this word describe you?

It certainly doesn't describe me. In fact, it doesn't even begin to describe me. Actually, it never has described me.

Are there any other character assassinations that the fundies and conservatives on this board would like to ascribe to gays (or liberals, or liberal Christians, for that matter)?

Perhaps this definition will add clarity:

li·cen·tious /laɪˈsɛnʃəs/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[lahy-sen-shuhs] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective

1. sexually unrestrained; lascivious; libertine; lewd.
2. unrestrained by law or general morality; lawless; immoral.
3. going beyond customary or proper bounds or limits; disregarding rules


Biblically, perhaps this will add clarity:

A. Greek words porneia and variables
1. KJV translates as "fornication"
a. English usage often refers to premarital sexual relations, but actually broad enough to be synonymous with "immorality"

2. porneia refers to sexual intercourse outside of the context of marriage; sexual intercourse between two persons who are not rightfully married as husband and wife.

B. English word "immorality"
1. Meaning: "Not consistent with morals"
2. Morals
a. From Latin moralis - "custom, manners"
b. mores - binding customs of a particular group
3. Immorality is whatever is contrary to the societal standards of a particular group

 

[UberLutheran]

Perhaps this definition will add clarity:

li·cen·tious /laɪˈsɛnʃəs/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[lahy-sen-shuhs] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective

1. sexually unrestrained; lascivious; libertine; lewd.
2. unrestrained by law or general morality; lawless; immoral.
3. going beyond customary or proper bounds or limits; disregarding rules


Biblically, perhaps this will add clarity:

A. Greek words porneia and variables
1. KJV translates as "fornication"
a. English usage often refers to premarital sexual relations, but actually broad enough to be synonymous with "immorality"

2. porneia refers to sexual intercourse outside of the context of marriage; sexual intercourse between two persons who are not rightfully married as husband and wife.

B. English word "immorality"
1. Meaning: "Not consistent with morals"
2. Morals
a. From Latin moralis - "custom, manners"
b. mores - binding customs of a particular group
3. Immorality is whatever is contrary to the societal standards of a particular group

Let's see: I'm in a committed relationship; I'm well within the societal standards of my particular group (ELCA Lutherans living in Austin, and the Southwest Texas Synod voted to become Reconciling-In-Christ, which means that gays and lesbians are welcomed as full, participating members of the synod); member of my neighborhood association; active member of the social, religious and political community to which I belong; and our relationship has been formally blessed by our pastor and we're registered as domestic partners in our county.

Nope: none of this applies to me.

 

[Zaac]

Let's see: I'm in a committed relationship;

God's declaration of fornication doesn't revolve around man's measure of a committed relationship. Opens the door to everyone's judgment and confusion as to what a committed relationship is. That way is your way. It is not of God.

I'm well within the societal standards of my particular group (ELCA Lutherans living in Austin, and the Southwest Texas Synod voted to become Reconciling-In-Christ, which means that gays and lesbians are welcomed as full, participating members of the synod); member of my neighborhood association; active member of the social, religious and political community to which I belong; and our relationship has been formally blessed by our pastor and we're registered as domestic partners in our county.

Nope: none of this applies to me.

And this would all be relevant if God had to ask the ELCA , a housing association, a social, religious, or political community what sin was before He declared it to be sin.

He is God ALONE and did not have to ask anybody. He declared what was sin long before any of the aforementioned ever existed.

And in accordance with His Word, if you're fornicating in your long-term relationship, it's just as much a sin as is the fornication of a one night stand.

But as was said, licentiousness is a product of a person's own selfish desires and vices. It's a rebellious, sinful attitude. And it results in there being no repentance because the person can justify to themselves that what they are doing is not a sin.

 

[UberLutheran]

Take it up with my pastor if you have a disagreement on this.

I'm not a Baptist, and I don't ever care to be a Baptist; and if I were a Baptist it might matter to me -- and frankly, I've got more important things to worry about right now than what you think is a "sin".

Like, you know -- surgery.

If you have a problem with any of this -- well, you know where the [REPORT] button is.

 

[jad123]

Does homosexuality fall under the catagory of licentiousness?

1.sexually unrestrained; lascivious; libertine; lewd. 2.unrestrained by law or general morality; lawless; immoral. 3.going beyond customary or proper bounds or limits; disregarding rules.

IMHO it depends. Mans law, then the answer is no. God's law then then answer is yes.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

licentious |līˈsen sh əs| adjective
1. promiscuous and unprincipled in sexual matters.


For the gay folks here: does this word describe you?

It certainly doesn't describe me. In fact, it doesn't even begin to describe me. Actually, it never has described me.

Are there any other character assassinations that the fundies and conservatives on this board would like to ascribe to gays (or liberals, or liberal Christians, for that matter)?

It absolutely does NOT describe me...not even close!

 

[ChaliceThunder]

But as was said, licentiousness is a product of a person's own selfish desires and vices. It's a rebellious, sinful attitude. And it results in there being no repentance because the person can justify to themselves that what they are doing is not a sin.

This would make your penchant for hanging around in chat rooms bludgeoning people with scripture a very licentious activity.

 

[Ohioprof]

Yeah, it is. The bible pretty much spells it out for us what is and isn't in that regard.

I don't think so. Different Christian interpret the Bible differently, "in that regard."

 

[Ohioprof]

And because the truth of man is conditional and based upon his own selfish desires, God has given His Absolute Truth that is His Word.

As demonstrated by Uber's examples, licentiousness will make you think you're free when you're actually living in bondage to sin. It is a product of a person's own selfish desires and vices. It's a rebellious, sinful attitude. And it results in there being no repentance because the person can justify to themselves that what they are doing is not a sin.

18They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. 19Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more. Ephesians 4:18-19

Uber's rendition of the truth is tainted by his own desire to be licentious and thereby justify his wrongdoing as right.

His examples accommodate man's desire to appease the flesh.

If his examples are truth, then God is a liar. And as God cannot lie, then Uber's truth is WRONG.

The Bible says 1Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry2But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. 1 Cor. 7:1-2

The Bible also says 4Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral. Hebrews 13:4

Taking God's Word over Uber's word, there is no gray area to qualify a "longterm, unmarried sexual relationship" as anything other than what God's WOrd says it is: sexually immoral.

He recognizes the sin of the person going to the baths and having sex outside of marriage. But somehow has availed himself to miss the point that his sin is the same, and becomes no less sin just because he CHOOSES to be sexually immoral with one person instead of ten.

And keeping with the FULL COUNSEL of GOD'S unified Word, the heterosexual in such a longterm sexual relationship with one person outside of marriage is ALSO being sexually immoral.

Sin is not an issue of repetition. And it does not stop being sin just because of longevity or because licentious men think it should be less than what it is because they have been dedicated to the one person with whom they CHOOSE to commit the sin.

Clearly I disagree with you about this. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. You can go on thinking that my love is a "sin," which is easy for you to do if you are not gay.

It's easy to point fingers at what you judge to be someone else's sin. It's especially easy for someone who is heterosexual to point fingers at gay people and say, "Those people are sinning." It's harder to look at yourself and remove the log from your own eye.