Liberal trollers

[Albion]

YIKES - the "way things are" is in many many cases unfriendly to Conservatism and in many many cases unfriendly to the cause of the Kingdom of God.

What you have said here you have said to a series of people who want to get things settled here and have a definition of 'Conservative Christians' that includes a reference to Conservatism. I don't want to argue with you, Tal, but I have no idea where you come by the view that we should not state that we are for conserving or preserving traditional Christian beliefs and values.

Keeping things at least generally the same IS conservatism. You cannot BE conservative and advocate overthrowing the tried and true, etc. Plus, we've already had several people show us all that the dictionary defines conservativism as upholding tradition.

But talking past each other doesn't do anything for anyone, so what I would like to do is ask you please to explain a little bit deeper why you are adverse to a conservative statement. Maybe we are miscommunicating or maybe you are concerned about some implications you think are present in traditionalism but which are not really meant by the word or which could be handled to everyone's satisfaction with a slight change in wording.

Will you do this please?

As ambassadors of the Kingdom of God, we certainly are not advocating "keeping things the way they are", are we?

Well, I am for the Bible, the basic Christian doctrines of faith, those concerning God, Christ as savior, the standard Christian practices of baptism and the Lord's Supper, evangelism, and traditional Christian moral values such as marital fidelity, honesty, respect for life, and so on. I have no reason to think that you are not for the survival of these also. Yet, those are all "traditional," being about 2000 years old and representing the consensus of Christians of just about all denominations throughout two millennia.

So how can the customary, historic, Christian views be "unfriendly to the cause of the Kingdom of God?" Right offhand, I'd say that the faith of Christianity ISN'T unfriendly to the Kingdom of God.

Who in our society is arrayed against traditional Christianity then? Secularists, humanists, extreme ecumenicalists, atheists and anti-Christians, Deists, liberal Christians, etc. among others. And there are various new religions like Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, New Agers, Scientologists and others who reject the Bible as it has been understood through the years, the nature of God as Christians have always believed it to be, and so on. I know that you're not one of them.

And if there is something in your perspective that isn't being appreciated by people like myself, it would help to have it spelled out in no uncertain terms. Is it even what "tradition" means, I have to wonder.

One thing that occurs to me that may be a source of miscommunication is that to be conservative does not mean keeping EVERYTHING, every last thing, the same as it has been. That is a common mistake made about Conservatism. Another is that an innovation of an earlier time is not traditional just because it is with us now. You once cited the case of slavery, as I recall, to oppose tradition, but that's NOT a traditional Christian belief or value, no way, it never represented the majority or standard view, even if some individuals and/or some countries argued for it using a Bible.

The most admired Conservatives in history have advocated prudent change, just not 'throwing the baby out with the bathwater.' If our values and beliefs are preserved, we are completely free as conservatives to, for example, change the way we go about spreading the Gospel.

Let's see if we can get to the bottom of this for the benefit of everyone here.

 

[woman.at.the.well]

This site has only been open for a week or so and already we are having liberals coming in to troll. I came to this section to get away from trollers so why are they being allowed to make trouble here. If they want to ask questions etc that's no problem but they shouldn't be allowed to attack our faith or cause arguments.

i was hoping for the same chococat. i know i don't go trolling in the liberal section; seems only right they shouldn't come trolling here. it almost seems like some sort of sick twisted obsession-doesn't it?

 

[TasManOfGod]

So what is the "official" conservative view on Christians getting themselves tattooed in contravention of God's will in Lev 19:28

 

[Albion]

So what is the "official" conservative view on Christians getting themselves tattooed in contravention of God's will in Lev 19:28

I think that the official view on the CC forum is that we've heard all sides of the argument now and don't need to start all over again.

 

[TasManOfGod]

I think that the official view on the CC forum is that we've heard all sides of the argument now and don't need to start all over again.

So who would be a troller the one with tattoos or the one who speaks against their promotion. I am interested because I am concerned if I would be considered a troller here or not

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

So who would be a troller the one with tattoos or the one who speaks against their promotion. I am interested because I am concerned if I would be considered a troller here or not

Gee, I dunno. I guess that depends on if obsessively riding a dead horse is considered trolling. But see Galatians -- the entire book -- for Paul's opinion on Christians who think they're supposed to follow the Mosaic Law.

 

[Chococat]

i was hoping for the same chococat. i know i don't go trolling in the liberal section; seems only right they shouldn't come trolling here. it almost seems like some sort of sick twisted obsession-doesn't it?

I guess they feel the need to obey the great commision to preach the gospel of liberalism/atheism to us poor plebs who insist on believing the Bible and Biblical principles.

 

[Albion]

So who would be a troller the one with tattoos or the one who speaks against their promotion. I am interested because I am concerned if I would be considered a troller here or not

I get the idea that the reference was to real trollers, not people who are usually conservative but may depart from the consensus on an issue here or there. That's why a strong statement would work, if enforced, agains real trollers.

Your "case study" concerning tattoos is a good example of how we can look at conservative vs. liberal or what it is to uphold the conservative POV.

Test yourself. What has the traditional POV among Christians, regardless of denomination, been on this issue since the founding of the Christian Church?

If there has been a ban against tattoos since early times that the churches recognized or pronounced, it would be a conservative argument to keep it. If this has not been an issue for the Christian churches and people of history and only has become an issue for some Christians now and again, it's NOT a conservative stance to call for tattooing to be disavowed, etc.

I have not followed the argument here very closely, but this is how you can tell.

Let's say that Christianity has been moot on the matter of tattooing. That would make your argument a revisionist one, and therefore not a conservative one. It could be presented but not debated at length.

But that assumes that we ever get a conservative statement that defines us.

 

[woman.at.the.well]

I guess they feel the need to obey the great commision to preach the gospel of liberalism/atheism to us poor plebs who insist on believing the Bible and Biblical principles.

is that what it is? thank you for the headsup!

 

[nyj]

So who would be a troller the one with tattoos or the one who speaks against their promotion. I am interested because I am concerned if I would be considered a troller here or not

Tas, if you drag the issue of tattoos into every subject, regardless of the OP, I'd say that would be tantamount to trolling.

 

[CyberPaladin]

i was hoping for the same chococat. i know i don't go trolling in the liberal section; seems only right they shouldn't come trolling here. it almost seems like some sort of sick twisted obsession-doesn't it?

Not really it's pretty much the same behavior I saw in News and Current Event section and expected to spread everywhere but I imagine it might be shock to those that stayed in the Christian only sections.

 

[TasManOfGod]

I see so being conservative depends not on what God says is unholy but what we ourselves think is unholy -and trolling is when you would want to see this reversed. Have I got that right?

 

[Mankin]

Run! Here comes a liberal! Lol. It depends on what your definition of a troller and liberal is. If the liberals are making a nuisance of themselves, then you can report those specific users.

 

[TasManOfGod]

Run! Here comes a liberal! Lol. It depends on what your definition of a troller and liberal is. If the liberals are making a nuisance of themselves, then you can report those specific users.

So the your definition of a liberal then seems to be one that doesn't agree with your definition of a conservative even if he is more conservative than you are

 

[Mankin]

My def of a liberal is a person who disagrees with a lot of conservative ideals.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

What love. *sigh*

 

[TasManOfGod]

What love. *sigh*

yer true

 

[TasManOfGod]

My def of a liberal is a person who disagrees with a lot of conservative ideals.

Whose conservative ideals - Yours or those who have more conservative ideals than you?. That would make you a liberal in their eyes -would it not?

 

[Mankin]

I say one thing and you want to start a debate?

 

[SallyNow]

i was hoping for the same chococat. i know i don't go trolling in the liberal section; seems only right they shouldn't come trolling here. it almost seems like some sort of sick twisted obsession-doesn't it?

Just wanted to pop my head in and say that, yes, from time to time, I do take a look at the Conservative Forum, Fundemental Forums, and various denominational forums that I am not a part of. However, it is not a "sick twisted obsession". I am genuinly interested in how and why other people come to different conclusions than my own. Sometimes I even learn something!

Also, while on first glance, I do not seem to have anything in common with conservatives, I do have my "conservative" side.

There has always been trolling on the internet, and CF is no different. All the subforums have a troll or two. I am sorry that it is so distressing.

However, I do not see genuine interest, and fellowship, as trolling, and I will keep any posts I make in the Conservative forum to fellowship and genuine interest.