Liberal Christian?

[JunkYardDog]

Just because I don't take the first few chapters from Genesis literally doesn't mean that I think they're not true.

There are several important truths I take from the first chapter, for example:

1. God is the creator of the material world.
2. God creates order and life out of chaos.
3. God has merely to speak and it is so.
4. What God created is intrinsically good.
5. That fertility comes from God
6. That God provides sustenance.
7. That it's really important to take a day off from work once a week.

Well, you have said you don't think tha part about God saying it was done in six days is not true. One of the things you are not learning from the text is that God is telling you the way it really was. He was there; you were not. He is EXPLICIT in His description.

 

[ottaia]

The knowledge that God is not spoofin' us is of great value, especially when your faith comes under severe attack. You would like to characterize that as self-righteousness, but you are definitely being self-righteous in doing so.

Of course you are assuming that my faith has never come under sever attack.

 

[ottaia]

Well, you have said you don't think tha part about God saying it was done in six days is not true. One of the things you are not learning from the text is that God is telling you the way it really was. He was there; you were not. He is EXPLICIT in His description.

Then why didn't God write it on stones in a language we could understand. God inspired falable people to write the Bible. But that is a different thread.

 

[jasperbound]

Just because I don't take the first few chapters from Genesis literally doesn't mean that I think they're not true.

There are several important truths I take from the first chapter, for example:

1. God is the creator of the material world.
2. God creates order and life out of chaos.
3. God has merely to speak and it is so.
4. What God created is intrinsically good.
5. That fertility comes from God
6. That God provides sustenance.
7. That it's really important to take a day off from work once a week.

Yes, you think Genesis is true, but you still think my literal interpretation of Genesis is incorrect and yours is correct, unless you're New Age and believe that Genesis is both literal and figurative at the same time (i.e. the world was created 6000 years ago, and it was created billions of years ago). And while you think that the time creation took is unimportant, some others think the contrary.
This is my major beef with liberal Christians. They don't want to admit that contradicting interpretations can't both be correct at the same time, and therefore, somebody has to be incorrect, so liberal Christians become quite New Age in their gymnastics to avoid offense. What's worse is then they also suggest certain ideas are "missing the point" or incorrect.
It's not "mean" or closed-minded to think that one is correct and those who have a different interpretation are incorrect. I think I'm correct, and I'm confident that evidence supports my case, but if somebody presents a better case, I definitely won't cling to the weaker one.

 

[tulc]

Could the difference be, rather then who's right and who's wrong, what difference does it make? For instanse someone believes in a literal 7 day creation, and someone else doesn't, but other then this difference the two people are almost identicle. In the end do you think when we stand before God He's going to send one to Hell and the other not? I don't. I think our God is a lot bigger then we think and we (sometimes) strain at gnats and swallow camals. We expect God to be like us rather then conforming ourselves to Him. He is more then what's found in the Bible
tulc(who reads his Bible everyday, thank you very much!)

 

[jasperbound]

The creation story may be literal, but it really doesn't matter to my faith.

And yes, there are contradictions in the bible. For example, one aacount says both theives mocked Jesus, another says one mocked and one believed.

After some Googling, it appears that the consensus is that both thieves originally reviled Christ, but one later repented. Not a contradiction.

 

[jasperbound]

Could the difference be, rather then who's right and who's wrong, what difference does it make? For instanse someone believes in a literal 7 day creation, and someone else doesn't, but other then this difference the two people are almost identicle. In the end do you think when we stand before God He's going to send one to Hell and the other not? I don't. I think our God is a lot bigger then we think and we (sometimes) strain at gnats and swallow camals. We expect God to be like us rather then conforming ourselves to Him. He is more then what's found in the Bible
tulc(who reads his Bible everyday, thank you very much!)

I do agree that, in the major sense, what one believes about the origins of life is irrelevant. It's also irrelevant if somebody believes people in the ancient Near East spoke English. Surely God wouldn't reject somebody who believed that, but there's nothing wrong if we try to correct them.

 

[JunkYardDog]

Of course you are assuming that my faith has never come under sever attack.

Thou sayest. Evidently not.

 

[JunkYardDog]

Then why didn't God write it on stones in a language we could understand. God inspired falable people to write the Bible. But that is a different thread.

You don't think God can give word-for-word dictation? You don't think He can preserve that record?

Why do you think you would have the right to dictate to God how he should do something so that you'll believe? That is like the people who said that if Jesus would come down from the cross, they would believe. Who are you to make conditions for God?

 

[ottaia]

Well, I guess I am just not going to be where ever you are going to be, hun? That is ok with me.

 

[ottaia]

You don't think God can give word-for-word dictation? You don't think He can preserve that record?

Why do you think you would have the right to dictate to God how he should do something so that you'll believe? That is like the people who said that if Jesus would come down from the cross, they would believe. Who are you to make conditions for God?

You know JYD, this is a stupid thing to agrue over. If you wish to continue, be my guest. I just think you are wrong, you think I am wrong, stalemate.

 

[Joykins]

You don't think God can give word-for-word dictation? You don't think He can preserve that record?

I do believe that God can give word-for-word dictation. He can do anything.

My belief is that if he attempted to do so directly, our minds could not take it. If you read the prophetic visions in the Bible, it is very difficult to determine what they mean--much more so than the more human-mediated poems, stories, and teachings.

When God came to the world in human form, He told a lot of stories--stories that may not have been literally true, but were meant to teach us something...thus with some (though not all) of the Bible. Literary form needs to be considered.

 

[tulc]

If you wish to continue, be my guest. I just think you are wrong, you think I am wrong, stalemate.

Would now be a good time to bring out the ice cream and cookies?

Over in the liberal forum when we find ourselves in a stalemate ice cream seems to help!
tulc(mmmmmm ice crrreamm)

 

[Joykins]

Yes, you think Genesis is true, but you still think my literal interpretation of Genesis is incorrect and yours is correct, unless you're New Age and believe that Genesis is both literal and figurative at the same time (i.e. the world was created 6000 years ago, and it was created billions of years ago). And while you think that the time creation took is unimportant, some others think the contrary.

I think Genesis is true. I believe that the preponderance of physical evidence (God speaking through creation) indicates that the world is much older than 6,000 years. I don't really care how long it took but I do like to have Saturday off work.

Of course we aren't both "right"; and obviously I think I'm closer to right than you are, but I'm not stuck on the idea that I *have* to be right about this. I take the lesson, sink myself into the story, and apply the necessary truths to my life as applicable. I don't believe that when we stand in the presence of God he's going to care about what opinions we used to have about earth origin chronology.

This is my major beef with liberal Christians. They don't want to admit that contradicting interpretations can't both be correct at the same time, and therefore, somebody has to be incorrect, so liberal Christians become quite New Age in their gymnastics to avoid offense. What's worse is then they also suggest certain ideas are "missing the point" or incorrect.It's not "mean" or closed-minded to think that one is correct and those who have a different interpretation are incorrect.

I think when it comes to interpretation of texts, "correct" and "incorrect" aren't the right terms to use.

I'm being kicked off the computer; more later....

I think I'm correct, and I'm confident that evidence supports my case, but if somebody presents a better case, I definitely won't cling to the weaker one.

 

[JunkYardDog]

I think Genesis is true. I believe that the preponderance of physical evidence (God speaking through creation) indicates that the world is much older than 6,000 years. I don't really care how long it took but I do like to have Saturday off work.

Well, you SHOULD care. After all, it is the difference between a 24-hour day off, and a millions-of-years "day" off.

 

[edie19]

I've heard this term before, but what does it mean?

Obviously it depends on who you ask, but I'll offer this. I used to attend a mainline protestant church that is known for its liberal social viewpoint. They ordain women, have an open and affirming attitude towards homosexuality, support women's right to choose. I heard a pastor stand in the pulpit and state that there's no evidence that Jesus said the sermon on the mount, the Lord's prayer or most of the other sayings attributed to Him. In many respects I'm not sure there was much to distinguish that church from any other organization.

However, in their defense - they have a very strong social conscience. They financially & personally support many worthy causes, they actively participate in soup kitchens, food services for the poor, provide school supplies, clothing and other supplies for hundreds of local children annually, participate in Stephen Ministries, and support civil rights. And that's just the church I attended, their international denomination does much more.

I currently attend what many would consider a conservative church - we are a church with its roots in the Reformation. My pastor holds a high view of Scripture and believes it to be the inspired word of God - and if the Bible states Jesus said something, then Jesus said it. The Bible is the final authority, if something we do is in conflict with Scripture - we change what we do.

We are a smaller body than my former church, but comparably we do as much to support social issues - just different ones (i.e. we help at a crisis pregnancy center as opposed to being pro-choice).

I believe that as Christians we are called to be socially aware - where the liberal vs conservative comes in is what side they come down on regarding some of the issues I mentioned.

 

[Sam Gamgee]

I've heard this term before, but what does it mean?

It's me.

A Christian who believes in Christ's teaching.

Jesus Christ, if he were alive today, would be a liberal...

 

[precious stone]

I don't think we use this term in Asia? Liberal chrisitans? or whatever not. We already have enough of different denominations and that confuses alot of non-christians here. I would say, liberal christians seems to originate from the West, and not from where Christ was origianlly from.

Liberal or not, God doesn't care. It's whether one loves and obeys His words and do His Will which really matters. Period!

 

[jasperbound]

A Christian who believes in Christ's teaching.

Jesus Christ, if he were alive today, would be a liberal...

By that definition, all Christians are liberal Christians, even Pat Robertson!

 

[ChristianCenturion]

It's me.

A Christian who believes in Christ's teaching.

Jesus Christ, if he were alive today, would be a liberal...

"If He were alive today?" Umm... He has risen!

Mark 16:6
"Don't be alarmed," he said. "You are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who was crucified. He has risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid him.