Leviticus 28:19

[Mattsanity]

"Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print or tattoo any marks upon you: I am the Lord."

do you have to abide to this, even if the tattoo consists of the cross and a positive phrase?
http://home.c2i.net/espurkel/onlythestrong.jpghttp://4.bp.blogspot.com/_QhrqKVWRy...ccSH-5HKQ9s/s400/Beat+It+7%27'+Single.jpg

 

[Mattsanity]

changed the link in the opening post. posted a wrong link, my bad.

 

[daydreamergurl15]

We are not under the old law, we are not bound to it, though I am needle phobic, I don't understand how anyone can cut themselves or allow needles anywhere near their body for fun.

 

[Mattsanity]

alright

 

[unkern]

We are still under the old law, but this verse is under the precedence of "for the dead". Do remember that it also says not to shave certain areas and this would directly disagree with the nazarite vow.

Also, I would say not to get any crosses maybe scripture, but the cross came directly from mithraism, Messiah was actually hung on a cross that looked like a capital T.

 

[Mattsanity]

We are still under the old law, but this verse is under the precedence of "for the dead". Do remember that it also says not to shave certain areas and this would directly disagree with the nazarite vow.

Also, I would say not to get any crosses maybe scripture, but the cross came directly from mithraism, Messiah was actually hung on a cross that looked like a capital T.

I didnt know that...I've shaved my pubic hair, ass hair, picked out my nose hair, armpit hair etc. I didnt know shaving certain areas was forbidden. I learned a lot from you.

 

[unkern]

I didnt know that...I've shaved my pubic hair, ass hair, picked out my nose hair, armpit hair etc. I didnt know shaving certain areas was forbidden. I learned a lot from you.

Its not forbidden, I was showing the context of the verse on tattoos. This was in respose to the rest of the verses that say do not shave he sides of your head, etc. These were all not to be done for the dead.

 

[daydreamergurl15]

So anyways, I went to Lev 28:19 to see the scripture and put it in it's context and see if what OhhhChung said about it being part of the "dead" was correct and found out that Lev ends at chapter 27. So, I checked Exodus, Lev., Numbers, and Deut. all 28:19 and 27:19 and I couldn't find it, so do you know which verse it is in?

Okay, never mind, it is Lev. 19:28
it says
"You shall not make any cuts on your body FOR the dead OR tattoo yourselves: I am the LORD."

And as for us not being under the old law, the book of Romans, Galatians and Hebrews are very good at explaining it then I ever could.

 

[wildboar]

I think it's strange that people take verses such as this and then apply them directly to modern tatoos when they do not follow laws against wearing garments made of two different types of materials such as cotton/poly blends. This is part of the ceremonial law. I really think in most cases it's an instance of reading the Bible to support what you already believe. Christ fulfilled the law for us. We should never read the law as if it is doable, as if we could fulfill it ourselves. There is nothing morally right or wrong in regards to a tatoo in and of itself and so there is Christian liberty although the person should consider health risks and what they are saying to the world with their tatoo.

 

[wildboar]

Also, I would say not to get any crosses maybe scripture, but the cross came directly from mithraism, Messiah was actually hung on a cross that looked like a capital T.

Actually both the upper and lower case t crosses were in use at the time of Christ. We do not know for sure which was used.

 

[fm107]

http://www.christianforums.com/t7370892/

 

[unkern]

Actually both the upper and lower case t crosses were in use at the time of Christ. We do not know for sure which was used.

Actually it wasnt, because the romans used a stake that was already in the ground, the prisoners were transported with a cross beam attached that had a hole in it for the point of the stake, this was allowing the weight of the victim to keep it in place.

Cotton and poly blends were not the issue it was wool and cotton, cotton comes from the world and wool comes from life, we know not to blend our lives with the world. There is no such classification as ceremonial law.

Galatians, Romans, and Hebrews are great advocates for showing the need for the law, thank you for bringing that up.

 

[wildboar]

There is a general consensus that the crucified person would have just carried the cross beam but there were a diversity of different crosses in use that Josephus describes. The Palatine crucifix is the oldest depiction of a crucifixion and it shows a lower case tau style cross and Irenaeus was the first Christian to describe the cross of Christ and he also speaks of the a lower case tau style cross.

 

[unkern]

The Tau cross is used to worship the god Mithras, thats why its used in christianity today. Up until the time of Messiah victims were affixed to a single stake, some were even slide down on the stake. They than began to use a T style cross, later on during the times of heavy persecution from the Romans they began to use more barbaric methods again, but the little t cross was an ineffective way to crucify victims, Josephus gives an account of Messiah being crucified, but no method to it. He does also give an example that they used many different form of execution. Irenaeus was not even born yet, so what he has to say doesnt even matter.

 

[wildboar]

unkern:

What proof do you have for your statements?

 

[unkern]

unkern:

What proof do you have for your statements?

You can always read from Josephus, or historical documents on Rome

 

[wildboar]

unkern:

But as you said Josephus does not describe the method so how will that help? What proof do you have that Jesus was definitely crucified on the upper Tau style cross?

 

[unkern]

unkern:

But as you said Josephus does not describe the method so how will that help? What proof do you have that Jesus was definitely crucified on the upper Tau style cross?

you just asked for proof on what I had just written, and I showed you where.

You can always look up the historian Tacitus, and other historical documents

 

[wildboar]

Where does Tacitus explain the method of crucifixion? Tacitus also wasn't born yet when Christ was crucified. Where in particular is it shown to be a proven fact that Jesus was crucified on upper case tau style cross?

 

[unkern]

Where does Tacitus explain the method of crucifixion? Tacitus also wasn't born yet when Christ was crucified. Where in particular is it shown to be a proven fact that Jesus was crucified on upper case tau style cross?

I dont grasp why you have such a need to prove Idols like the cross correct, Messiah was crucified according to the Roman ways during that time, if you want to learn more about those ways im not gonna uncover year old material that I had, your gonna have to find it yourself. My point was not what the cross looked like, my point is that the Lord told us never to make an idol out of anything in heaven above or earth below. It makes even less sense to hang the device that killed the one who brought us atonement around our neck, its like wearing the knife that the man that stabbed your wife (not to say that your wife was stabbed) and bowing to it, lighting candles, incents, making huge Idols to put on top of church buildings and in their lawns.