Levitical Law

[12volt_man]

Actually, one of the pioneers in the United States suffrage movement Elizabeth Cady Stanton, said
“When women understand that governments and religions are human inventions; that bibles, prayer-books, catechisms, and encyclical letters are all emanations from the brains of man, they will no longer be oppressed by the injunctions that come to them with the divine authority of ‘Thus sayeth the Lord.’”
I doubt she was an evangelical.

No, she wasn't.

Perhaps this is why I didn't say that every one, without exception was an evangelical Christian.

On to Levitical law. You say it is non-applicable. OK, I have heard others give their biblical reasoning. So why is homosexuality such a hot button with Christians when adultery etc, is not. I still can't figure this out.

First of all, homosexuality is a "hot button" issue all across society, not just with Christians.

Second, you're absolutely right that we respond to some sins differently than we respond to others. It's human nature to need somebody to feel superior to.

It's not right, but we humans are wired that way. It's a form of self preservation.

As to your mention of Phelps. You mentioned him, I didn't.

Yes, I did mention him and you still haven't given us an example.

Phelps isn't a credible example because he is not only not widely accepted within Christianity, but is condemned by virtually everyone who has spoken about him.

You can't use Phelps, try as you might, to paint Christianity with a broad brush when Christians have come out overwhelmingly to condemn the guy.

Now, can you give us an example or not?

 

[Diagoras]

No, she wasn't.

Perhaps this is why I didn't say that every one, without exception was an evangelical Christian.



First of all, homosexuality is a "hot button" issue all across society, not just with Christians.

Second, you're absolutely right that we respond to some sins differently than we respond to others. It's human nature to need somebody to feel superior to.

It's not right, but we humans are wired that way. It's a form of self preservation.



Yes, I did mention him and you still haven't given us an example.

Phelps isn't a credible example because he is not only not widely accepted within Christianity, but is condemned by virtually everyone who has spoken about him.

You can't use Phelps, try as you might, to paint Christianity with a broad brush when Christians have come out overwhelmingly to condemn the guy.

Now, can you give us an example or not?

I am not here to debate so I'm not sure what 'example' you are looking for. Sorry if I seem to paint Christianity with a broad brush, I know that there is no such thing as 'Christianity' as a united monolithic belief system. You have everything from Mormons to Baptists to Catholics all with different interpretations of the Bible, different holy books and different dogmas. I am just trying to get a handle on the obsession with homosexuality.

Thanks for your response.

 

[xjonx]

Hey Diagoras,


God is a loving, merciful, forgiving God. He created us to live in harmony with Him. When we turned against Him He did not leave us to die on our own. He sent a part of Himself in Jesus to die the death we deserve. Not only this but He has also sent a part of Himself in the Holy Spirit for all those who repent and turn back to Him.


We are fallen creatures. Our motives are messed up and damaged. When we try and reason we find all sorts of holes in every argument. When we try and do good we find much of the time we do not.


Sin is a disease which has directly affected every part of our body, mind, and emotions. Sin is the cause for all the perversions of good things. God gives us the wonderful blessing of a sexual union to be had with the one we love and we turn it into something selfish. Man and woman are actually symbolic of God and us. Jesus is portrayed as the Prince in Revelation who reaches out to humanity, while Humanity is portrayed as either a prostitute or a virgin. The prostitutue does not keep herself for sexual union with her future husband but sleeps with other men. In other words this is symbolic of humanity turning to other things (religions, idols, each other) rather than waiting patiently on God.


God created us to be filled with Him and be content. After this He blesses us with a husband or wife to enjoy His company with. We find contentment in God alone. When I think about homosexuality, it makes me think of this symbolism and how it distorts the imagery given in Revelation. It distorts the imagery by turning a loving relationship between God and humanity into something perverted. That is, humanity being satisfied with itself and pretending to not need God. Or God being satisfied with say, the angels, and forgetting about humanity.


Does this make sense? Homosexuality is a sin for many reasons, and like all sins, the person committing them is called to repent. To repent does not mean to say sorry and try harder next time. To repent means to turn from sin. To confess it and pray to God for a way to resist the temptation. It is not a simple sorry, it involves turning away from doing the sin again. To marry a homosexual couple would be to attempt to bless two people who are choosing to go directly against what God has outlined will cause pain and harm. Do you follow? Homosexuals are loved by God, and He calls them out of their sins that they may experience real joy and peace which comes only from Him.


Jonathan

 

[TheBear]

I am just trying to get a handle on the obsession with homosexuality.

The thread title, 'Levitical Law', drew my attention and I decided to check it out. Levitical Law covers a huge range of laws. The specifics of homosexuality, or any other sin, was not even on my mind - until you mentioned it. So, your own remarks seem to apply to yourself in this case.

Here's what I suggest. If all you wanted to do is discuss/debate the Christian perspective on homosexuality, all you have to do is start that topic in the GA forum.

Again, this particular forum is for questions only from non-Christians. Your question has been answered - several times. If you want to take the answers into discussion or debate, by all means do so. But, continue the discussion in the GA forum.

 

[PRMan]

Homosexuality is considered throughout scripture to be sinful and detestable to God, regardless of how popular it is, how many governments come out in favor of it, etc.

It is sin and I wouldn't want to stand before God having been one my whole life.

Do I think that homosexuals should be treated fairly in hiring for secular jobs. Of course. Sinners still need to eat and pay the rent, and we are all sinners at some point!!!

Here is another verse for you to chew on (the final verse of the chapter that contains, "even their women exchanged...":

Romans 1:32
Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

 

[Diagoras]

The thread title, 'Levitical Law', drew my attention and I decided to check it out. Levitical Law covers a huge range of laws. The specifics of homosexuality, or any other sin, was not even on my mind - until you mentioned it. So, your own remarks seem to apply to yourself in this case.

Here's what I suggest. If all you wanted to do is discuss/debate the Christian perspective on homosexuality, all you have to do is start that topic in the GA forum.

Again, this particular forum is for questions only from non-Christians. Your question has been answered - several times. If you want to take the answers into discussion or debate, by all means do so. But, continue the discussion in the GA forum.

Thanks. You are asbolutely right. I am new here and it's easy to get side tracked. I have good responses to my Levitical Law question and I think I have a better handle on it. I would like to close this discussion because most of the respondants tend to agree that Levitical Law is no longer applicable. Sorry to have side-tracked the discussion.

 

[TheBear]

And I don't remember if I welcomed you, so welcome to CF, Diagoras.

 

[12volt_man]

I am not here to debate so I'm not sure what 'example' you are looking for.

OK. That's convenient.

You say that Christians harrass gays, but when asked to give an example of Christians harrassing gays, you say you're not here to debate?

Sorry if I seem to paint Christianity with a broad brush, I know that there is no such thing as 'Christianity' as a united monolithic belief system. You have everything from Mormons to Baptists to Catholics all with different interpretations of the Bible, different holy books and different dogmas. I am just trying to get a handle on the obsession with homosexuality.

Actually, Mormonism isn't Christian, it's Mormonism, a completely different religion unto itself.

 

[Im_A]

I am not here to debate so I'm not sure what 'example' you are looking for. Sorry if I seem to paint Christianity with a broad brush, I know that there is no such thing as 'Christianity' as a united monolithic belief system. You have everything from Mormons to Baptists to Catholics all with different interpretations of the Bible, different holy books and different dogmas. I am just trying to get a handle on the obsession with homosexuality.

Thanks for your response.

as a Christian, i don't understand why there is such an obsession with homosexuality. i believe it all depends on what translation you use to have your views about it. either one, you view it as an abnomination to God, or a sin to God. nouns mean nothing to me when it comes to theology (even though i'm sure the word is an adjective too, depending on how you use it.)

but seriously, i think it depends on which translation you adhere too. now there are Christians who are very libreal on this sense, so i'm not including them with this comment.

but if you want my personal opinion and personal conviction that no theologian or "born again" believer can change, the Bible tells us that God is not a respector of men, which to me shows we are first, equal, no matter of race, or sexual orientation. then two, sin is sin. whether if it is a homosexual lifestyle, or a heterosexual promiscuity lifestyle. no one has a just right saying it is not so much of a sin to go and have one night stands with a member of that opposite sex, but it's a bigger sin to have sex with a member of the opposite sex. that's ridiculous, and in my personal opinon, ignorant.

all i see anymore is that christians complain about homosexuality, than the one unforgivable sin that Jesus says there is, "Blasphemeing the Holy Spirit." and with what seems to be the case that Christians complain about, it just seems like a culture controlled theology and not being seeing it any other way. i'm not saying, let's start saying it's not a sin. but the facts are, there is no difference between a homosexual man living in sinful promiscuity, and a heterosexual living promiscuity. sin is sin. i believe we need to stop bashing these people down. i think us Christians need to seek out to understand these people, before we go and bash them with verses in Galations or go and try to convert them. i think maybe we will see something different about them. at least that's what has happened for me. i mean i see a person struggling with something they cannot change for some reason and that something may bring them death or at least ridicule. if they can't change their sexual orientation, that's fine with me. i do believe they have to live in celibateness to God, but if sin is sin, and we all have struggles with sin that we will have for the rest of our lives, maybe these individuals will deal with this all their lives. can anyone raise up their hand and say, "i never sinned after i made some sinner's prayer?" or do we just use different terminlogy, like saying we struggle to make it sound not that bad to us? or do we say that to God we are perfect because of the blood of Christ? i'm not mocking these things, but come on. those things are not meant to give us exscuses to put us at some heirarchy over people, or make our struggles less big, to other non-christian struggles with sin. those things are part of the awesome Grace of God. i think it is bad or even sinful to belittle those things as ways of seperation from people that truly need Jesus.

so in ending, i agree with you Diagoras. i don't understand why there is such an obsession of homosexuality. i mean why should people be obsessed with something either one, they aren't, or two something they hate. i don't hate the people. i miss especially, my one gay friend. i miss hanging out with him, smoking cigarettes, drinking tons of coffee, and just talk about life with him and play euchre. he knows i'm a Christian, so there's no need for me to start preaching to him. he knows to some degree what i view his actions are, so if he isn't going to ask me, i'm not going to force feed my theology down his throat. but this man is still my friend, and i miss hanging around him. i don't be-friend the worldly ways, but i will always be friend people of the human race. so yes, i can't see no reason why Christians should be harping about homosexuality. i think Christians need to be discussing about the only unforgiveable sin which is, "Blasphemeing the Holy Spirit" if they want to have an obsession with sin, or the fear of sin.

 

[Marrianne]

Taking the bible as a whole includes the OT as well as the NT. If you pick and choose which laws you follow today, then how are you following the guidelines of Christianity and it's bible? If Leviticus has stipulations against homosexuality, and against wearing clothing made of multiple fibers, how can you disreagrd the clothing law, and stick to the homosexuality law like glue? Can't you choose not to follow this too, if you have chosen to do so with some of the other so-called "out-dated" laws? Change with the times right? Clothing made from two fibers would mean you would have to end up making most of your clothing yourself, since most store-bought are combined synthetics, so it makes sense that you have chosen to not follow this old testament law any more since it impractical for modern living, yet you choose to adhere to the laws regarding homosexuality? Pick and choose all you want, but God told Moses, that not a jot nor a tittle of the word shall be changed. I think this makes Christianity look hippocrititical.

 

[MyLittleWonders]

Thanks. You are asbolutely right. I am new here and it's easy to get side tracked. I have good responses to my Levitical Law question and I think I have a better handle on it. I would like to close this discussion because most of the respondants tend to agree that Levitical Law is no longer applicable. Sorry to have side-tracked the discussion.

Actually, if you'd like another opinion/answer to your question, not all of us view the Levitical law as no longer applicable. To me, the Torah is still applicable today, including the verses about homosexuallity being "wrong" (and sorry, I"m not big on politicaly correctness). You asked, if I remember correctly, why then aren't we stoning people for breaking the Torah? Because, imo, Jesus took the punishment upon Himself. The way I see it, we all have done something/do something/will do something that is worthy of being stoned, kicked out of the camp, cut off from our brothers. But God, in His great mercy, sent Jesus as the blood atonement for all of our sins.

5“Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?”

6They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. 7But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court.10Straightening up, Jesus said to her, “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?”11She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more.”

Jesus didn't condone the stoning of a woman who was caught in adultery - instead He told her to go sin no more - do not continue in what she was doing. He also made it clear that really, no man has the right to stone another man to death, because we are all guilty of something that requires punishment. Then, when He was put up on that stake, He took her punishment upon Himself along with everyone elses.