• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Leviathan - What Is It? Let's Find Out the Old Fashioned Way

Status
Not open for further replies.

AVBunyan

Senior Member
Dec 4, 2003
1,131
78
71
Visit site
✟25,216.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Leviathan - Job 41


Forgive me in advance for the length.

Greetings in the name of the Saviour. The purpose of this post is to show the power of the scriptures. There has been much talk about what the “leviathan” is of Job 41. There have been al sorts of ideas on what this creature is such as: dinosaurs, hippos, crocodiles, whales, etc. Many go to the Hebrew and play around a bit to come up wit hwhat they believe this creature to be. What I will show is the the scriptures tell us what this creature is. Some of you may know this already but to some this may be new.

But I want us to see that the scriptures are more enough to shade light on the ancient Hebrew and modern commentators and…Christian scientists. The common teaching by the Christian scientists (and good men at that) is that leviathan is a dinosaur.

I will let the scriptures speak without any reference to Hebrew or science.

Alright – enough of the introductions – let’s see the scriptures speak.

First I will run the references of the word leviathan through the scriptures of Paul teaches us to compare spiritual things with spiritual things. The scriptures give us four but I will use only the three:

Psa 104:26 There go the ships: there is that leviathan, whom thou hast made to play therein.

First – leviathan can have access to the sea or use the sea as part of his domain. Some dinosaurs were sea creatures so this verse doesn’t prove this is a dinosaur. Of course, which sea? We are assuming that the sea here is the sea here on earth. There is another sea you know. We’ll chat later.

Psa 74:14 Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, and gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness.

This one is more interesting – either the verse is referencing several “leviathans” or alone “leviathan” with “several heads”. Also, there is a reference to feeding Israel in the wilderness. In the wilderness journeys of the past there is no reference that they ate “dinosaur” meat or “rhino” meat or other large creature meat. I believe this is a prophetic reference to God feeding Israel in the future during the last half of the tribulation:

Micah 7:14 Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old..

Since I believe the verse is prophetic I doubt Israel will be fed by “dinosaur” meat. Plus I believe that the heads there are of a multi-headed beast which God will use to feed Israel in the wilderness after they are scattered abroad – James. 1:1. But…we still don’t have enough to identify what this “leviathan” is.

Isa 27:1 In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

Now, we have something!. Leviathan is now associated with a “serpent” and a “dragon”. I believe this leviathan is a serpent and a dragon. When you run “serpent” and “dragon” through the scriptures you come up with some strange things.

I find a serpent in Gen. 3 – we know who that is. We find a “crooked serpent” in Job 26:13 (note the 13’s – I just noticed this myself). This crooked serpent is associated with creation and is singular.

In Rev. 12:9 we have a serpent called the Devil and Satan. (And this large creature is able to hold a bunch of water like Job 40:23.).

Finally - Rev. 20:2 – we have this serpent called the dragon.

Now let’s go to Job 41 and see if leviathan is a dinosaur or whatever else people say it is.

Job 41:1 Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down?

Of course not – not a dinosaur or whatever this thing is.

Job 41:2 Canst thou put an hook into his nose? or bore his jaw through with a thorn?

Ditto

Job 41:3 Will he make many supplications unto thee? will he speak soft words unto thee?

Dinosaurs can’t speak but it hints that this creature might be able to.

Job 41:4 Will he make a covenant with thee? wilt thou take him for a servant for ever?

A dinosaur won’t or can’t make a covenant but there is a creature that can and covenants are associated with the nation of Israel.

Job 41:6 Shall the companions make a banquet of him? shall they part him among the merchants?

A dinosaur won’t but a beast is associated with merchants in Rev. 18 – yes a stretch here! LOL!!!

Job 41:7 Canst thou fill his skin with barbed irons? or his head with fish spears?

Maybe with a dinosaur but this creature – probably not.

Job 41:9 Behold, the hope of him is in vain: shall not one be cast down even at the sight of him?

Does a dinosaur hope? I don’t think so. But there is a creature that does.

Job 41:10 None is so fierce that dare stir him up: who then is able to stand before me?

I would think dinosaurs have been killed by men before but not this guy!

Job 41:12 I will not conceal his parts, nor his power, nor his comely proportion.

This creature’s power will be made manifest.

Job 41:14 Who can open the doors of his face? his teeth are terrible round about.

Dinosaur here? – could fit but so can a croc!

Job 41:15 His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal.

I wouldn’t think dinosaurs are prideful but there is a creature that is.

Job 41:18 By his neesings a light doth shine, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning.

I didn’t think dinosaurs could do this. – I may be wrong – no expert on dinos. Some say that some beetles can and maybe some dinos have. Maybe but science is not my authority here.

Job 41:19 Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.

Ditto – but a creature in Rev. 11 is associated with bringing fire down from the sky to counterfeit the signs and wonders of God.

Job 41:20 Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.

Ditto on the above

Job 41:21 His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.

Ditto

Job 41:24 His heart is as firm as a stone; yea, as hard as a piece of the nether millstone.

Are dinosaurs’ hearts fixed – fixed? On what? – Sounds like this creature has motive.

Job 41:26 The sword of him that layeth at him cannot hold: the spear, the dart, nor the habergeon.

No worldly weapon will take him.

Job 41:27 He esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood.

Associated with iron – has the power to break iron.

Job 41:29 Darts are counted as stubble: he laugheth at the shaking of a spear.

Dinosaurs didn’t laugh I don’t think they did?

Job 41:31 He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment.

Is the deep here the oceans – I believe the deep here is the water above the earth – and no dinosaur has ventured there.

Job 41:32 He maketh a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary.

The deep again – I believe is not the oceans but THE deep above the heavens.

Job 41:33 Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear.

I’m willing to bet even dinosaurs had some fear – again, may be wrong.

Job 41:34 He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.

Oh boy, he is a king and he is over children of pride – a king? Rev. 9:11

So, I guess you figured where I was going. I believe the Holy Spirit is giving us a detailed, behind-the-scenes look at the beast and Satan in Job 40 and 41.

Folks, I don’t see any other being fitting the description. Dinosaurs can fit some of Job 41 but you have to spiritualize a bit and do more stretching than I have done. The devil will make a covenant with Israel in the tribulation. The devil will hold a lot of water as he swallows up Jordan and then spews it out to try and drown out Israel – like In Exodus. The devil is associated with iron – Dan. 2.

And, why would the Holy Spirit spend one whole chapter on a dinosaur?

Summary - Look at what we did – we took the word, leviathan, and ran it through the scriptures – looked at words associated with it and ran the references on them and came up with the Devil himself.

Your thoughts?!?!?!?!
May God bless. May God bless. :wave:
 

Captain_Scott

Active Member
Jul 3, 2004
231
7
40
Avon, SD
Visit site
✟22,900.00
Faith
Calvinist
very interesting, one thing though that i would like to offer...the language used is often uhh waht i call "picture language?" also in Job it talks about the cheif of the ways of God, an anmimal with tail like a ceader tree. animals dont have ceder trees attached to there hindparts, so its a metiphore, much of this language may be metiphorical...i dunno..i think its a fire breathing dragon personally..but i dunno...good post though...lots of good exigesis
 
Upvote 0

The Thadman

Well-Known Member
Jul 3, 2002
1,783
59
✟2,318.00
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Just some thoughts from the local Karaite ;)

The verse talking about the Leviathan's meat being given to Israel must be metaphor, as serpents are not permissible to eat as per the dietary restrictions of Tahor (what thousands of years later became "Kosher").

Second, chapters and verses were later additions. Although I agree with you that the book of Job does spend a lot of time describing the Leviathan using all sorts of Shemitic poetic devices, it wasn't "an entire chapter" per se ;)

Other than that what you have shown is fascinating :) It could very well be an allusion to Satan :)

Peace!
-Steve-o
 
Upvote 0

Yebo

obey HIM!!!
May 31, 2004
155
15
61
Tzaneen - South Africa
✟382.00
Faith
Christian
Upvote 0

AVBunyan

Senior Member
Dec 4, 2003
1,131
78
71
Visit site
✟25,216.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Yebo said:
:wave: Greetings from a sunny South Africa :cool:


Old T-Rex maybe???

:clap: Be BLESSED by the BEST and stay within the confinements of PEACE :clap:
Good to hear from you Yebo of S. Africa - how are things?

Good question - I think what you have here is a multi-beast "beast" of Rev. 13 - and then the devil revealed in Job 41 like you have in Revelation - the beast then the devil.

Your thoughts -

May God bless
 
Upvote 0

AVBunyan

Senior Member
Dec 4, 2003
1,131
78
71
Visit site
✟25,216.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
G4m said:
AVBunyan,

Thanks for the detail! If Leviathan represents the devil who or what does Behemoth represent? Here is another interesting post on the subject:

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=1072923&postcount=1
Good question - I think what you have here is a multi-beast "beast" of Rev. 13 - and then the devil revealed in Job 41 like you have in Revelation - the beast then the devil

God bless :wave:
 
Upvote 0

christian-only

defender of the rebirth
Mar 20, 2004
686
35
✟1,017.00
Faith
Christian
PaladinValer said:
they are supposedly allusions to the crocodile and the hippo

As far as the idea that Leviathan means crocodile, I would simply note that crocodiles do not breath fire. Job 41:21

Now then, lets look at Behemoth. Some "Bible scholars" say the Behemoth is a hippo or elephant. But why? Only because they being unbelieving evolutionists can't accept that dinosaurs and humans lived at the same time, even though that's obviously what the Bible is saying.

(Job 40:15-24 KJV) Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. {16} Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.

The weak spot of the elephant is its belly.

{17} He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.

Neither the elephant nor the hippo has a tail like a tree, unless you take the elephant's nose to be its tail.

{18} His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.

Certainly not an elephant.

{19} He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.

An animal that humans can't kill. Not a hippo! Not an elephant!

{20} Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.

How does the hippo swim up into the mountains?

{21} He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens. {22} The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about. {23} Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.

I'd like to see a Hippo drink up the whole Jordan! This is obviously a Bronchiosaur or the like.

{24} He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.

Not that snares pierce his nose, but his nose pierces the snares! He must have a big nose, and a long neck for that!

Now then, before someone says "my translation doesn't say that" let me inform you that modern translations translate the Hebrew of the Old Testament as if it was Ugaritic rather than Hebrew. That's like if I took an English book and translated it into French as if it were written in Spanish. These "Bible scholars" say Ugaritic is a "cognate language," a language in which all the words sound and mean the same thing. No such thing exists! Between English and Spanish there are many cognates, some true, some false. Telephone and telefono mean the same thing but mano and man do not (mano is hand, not man, therefore "mano a mano" is "hand to hand", not "man to man" as most TV shows assume). Now then, why would you want to take a barely known language like Ugaritic and attempt to decipher an already well known language like Hebrew by it? That's just foolishness!! Ugaritic is a less known language than Hebrew! Why would anyone want to do that unless they are seeking to corrupt the Old Testament on purpose? They wouldn't unless that was their plan. To blindly translate by supposed cognates is stupid, Yet, that's exactly what your translation has done in the Old Testament if it isn't the KJV.
 
Upvote 0

G4m

Veteran
Oct 29, 2003
1,569
31
Visit site
✟1,981.00
Faith
Seeker
AVBunyan said:
Good question - I think what you have here is a multi-beast "beast" of Rev. 13 - and then the devil revealed in Job 41 like you have in Revelation - the beast then the devil

God bless :wave:
I don't think the beast would be the chief of Gods ways though?

Job 40:19He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.