Let's try it this way-SDAs & Sunrise Services

[thecountrydoc]

Hi once again RC_NP,

You said:

"So Jesus rose from the dead on Satan's holy day? It that the point of this. This is all such nonsense, the calendar does not give exact days for any kind of remembrance. It did not in Israel's calendar or anyone else's. They inserted intercalary dates into the calendar which would change the day just as much as our method which makes a date fall on a different named day of the week. So the church after a good long battle determined what they thought was logical choice and maintained at least the named day of the week to be the same".

From the foregoing statement, it would seem that perhaps a little deeper study of history might be in order. The seven day weekly cycle has never been broken or changed throughout recorded history. As for the day of the week that Christ rose from the dead, you will note that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John all referred to it as "the first day of the week." The "first day of the week," or what is now called "Sunday," was historicaly called 'the day of the sun' by ancient pagan sun worshipers. The worship of the sun and the day it was worshiped on was/is Satan's counterfits for the worship of the SON and the seventh-day SABBATH.

"And now that day is Satan's holy day. Why, well not because Satan said so or God said so, no it is merely the tradition of people foolish enough to think that the stuff in Alexander Hislop's the Two Babylons is accurate."

Now would be a good time to clear the air about historical refferences. I can not speak for everyone who may have read Alexander Hislop's 'The Two Babylons,' but I can tell you that what I have stated here is not the result of the writings of Alexander Hislop. Time and space preclude writing a research paper on the subject here. However if you wish, we can consider some follow up on this topic.

Since I'm rather new to these forums I must ask a question. From reading this thread and other post you have made here in the SDA forum, do you belive in, or disbelive, the seventh-day Sabbath?

Respectfully, your brother in Christ,
Doc

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[RC_NewProtestants]

Countrydoc wrote:

From the foregoing statement, it would seem that perhaps a little deeper study of history might be in order. The seven day weekly cycle has never been broken or changed throughout recorded history.

Really is that what history tells us? Well no it is not, the seven day week is historically link to Assyria and some places historically did not even have a 7 day week such as China and Rome. Take the time to look up any encyclopedia article on the subject of the calendar or days of the week if you don't believe me. Even if you believe in Ussher's chronology and think the world is only 6000 years old you don't have real history you are going by what was recorded in Genesis at least 1500 years after the creation. At best if you want to make assumptions you can assume that the Jews were able to maintain a 7 day cycle from after the Exodus. Of course if Joshua stopped the sun for a day who knows how they counted things.

The "first day of the week," or what is now called "Sunday," was historicaly called 'the day of the sun' by ancient pagan sun worshipers. The worship of the sun and the day it was worshiped on was/is Satan's counterfits for the worship of the SON and the seventh-day SABBATH.

Yes it was the first day of the week and historically that day was called the Lord's day in honor of His resurrection. If I recall when days of week got names they were named for planets and each planet was related to a god the remains remain in Sunday for the Sun and Saturday for Saturn
From one of the many internet articles on the names of the week:

This comes from the historical association of the
"planets" with gods and goddesses. In ancient times, the word
"planets" was from the Greek for "wanderers" and referred to objects
in the sky that were not fixed like the stars. Some of these
associations are clearer in English, especially if we compare with
names of Norse or Old English gods/goddesses, while others are clearer
from comparing French/Spanish with the Roman gods and goddesses. We
have:

Sun Moon Mars Mercury Jupiter Venus Saturnhttp://www.faqs.org/faqs/astronomy/faq/part2/section-12.html

but I can tell you that what I have stated here is not the result of the writings of Alexander Hislop.

You may not know however just how influential that book was to the teachers who taught you. Sometimes our sources of information may come from places we have not even read.

Since I'm rather new to these forums I must ask a question. From reading this thread and other post you have made here in the SDA forum, do you belive in, or disbelive, the seventh-day Sabbath?

What do you mean, certainly there is a thing called the Sabbath it is an historical fact. I am to be judging people upon what day they keep? I think not, which appears to be different from the way some assume that a particular day is Satan's counterfeit. In the Old Testament God abhorred at certain times the peoples sacrifices does that mean the sacrifices were Satan's counterfeits or is it a reflection of the attitude of the people. Is worship only acceptable on one day of the week? That does not seem to reasonable.

 

[thecountrydoc]

Hello once again RC_N.P.

Please do not make the assumption that I don't know what is often stated in the encycolopedia. Nor should you make, what appears to be, assumptions about my knowledge of history. As for my being taught by teachers that were influenced by Alexander Hislop's writings, let meassure you that was not the case.

I ask you;

"From reading this thread and other post you have made here in the SDA forum, do you belive in, or disbelive, the seventh-day Sabbath?"

Your answer;

"What do you mean, certainly there is a thing called the Sabbath it is an historical fact. I am to be judging people upon what day they keep? I think not, which appears to be different from the way some assume that a particular day is Satan's counterfeit. In the Old Testament God abhorred at certain times the peoples sacrifices does that mean the sacrifices were Satan's counterfeits or is it a reflection of the attitude of the people. Is worship only acceptable on one day of the week? That does not seem to reasonable."

From your reply above, it would seem to indicate that the answer to my question is that you acknowlege that there is a seventh-day Sabbath from an intelectual stand point, but you don't accept it from a theological standpoint.

In view of your answer may I suggest a much deeper study of the Sabbath as well as why God abhorred some sacrifices and accepted others.

As for the names of the days of the week you are correct in the naming of both Saturday and Sunday. By the way the other five days are also named after celestial bodies.

If you wish to pursue these topics just let me know.

Respectfully, your brother in Christ,
Doc

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

Please do not make the assumption that I don't know what is often stated in the encycolopedia. Nor should you make, what appears to be, assumptions about my knowledge of history.

I was not making assumptions, I was basing my comment upon your assertion that The seven day weekly cycle has never been broken or changed throughout recorded history.

As for the names of the days of the week you are correct in the naming of both Saturday and Sunday. By the way the other five days are also named after celestial bodies.

Nice of you to point that out, of course it was in a quote box in my previous post but I guess you must have thought I did not know about it.

It is also nice to know that you are so certain of the past influences upon people who you have read or been taught by. Pretty astounding really to know that much about people who you probably don't know well at all.

frankly I really question what many Adventists say about a deeper knowledge of the Sabbath. In most cases it is based upon the assumption that when the Bible says commandments in the new testament it is a reference to the 10 commandments, sort of just ignore the other 613 and then they tend to have divide the law as ceremonial and moral even though the Jews never did that, the New Testament never did that and it was not really until the middle ages that such an idea appeared. But now it is integral to many peoples understanding.

 

[thecountrydoc]

Hello once again RC_N.P.,

From your previous post:

Quote:
Please do not make the assumption that I don't know what is often stated in the encycolopedia. Nor should you make, what appears to be, assumptions about my knowledge of history.
I was not making assumptions, I was basing my comment upon your assertion that The seven day weekly cycle has never been broken or changed throughout recorded history.

Quote:
As for the names of the days of the week you are correct in the naming of both Saturday and Sunday. By the way the other five days are also named after celestial bodies.
Nice of you to point that out, of course it was in a quote box in my previous post but I guess you must have thought I did not know about it.

It is also nice to know that you are so certain of the past influences upon people who you have read or been taught by. Pretty astounding really to know that much about people who you probably don't know well at all.

frankly I really question what many Adventists say about a deeper knowledge of the Sabbath. In most cases it is based upon the assumption that when the Bible says commandments in the new testament it is a reference to the 10 commandments, sort of just ignore the other 613 and then they tend to have divide the law as ceremonial and moral even though the Jews never did that, the New Testament never did that and it was not really until the middle ages that such an idea appeared. But now it is integral to many peoples understanding.

First I must appoligize and wipe the "egg" off my face. In my hast, while reading your post, I overlooked the fact that you did indeed acknowledge the name origins of the other days of the week. Please accept my appology.

Now I would like to address the balance of your post starting with the weekly seven-day cycle.

It might be expected that a Sunday keeper, or perhaps an atheist, might challenge the weekly seven-day cycle, but for a professed seventh-day Sabbath keeper to challenge this point is a bit unseemly.

May I point out the following; "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day" Gen 1:2-5. Then we read in Gen. 1:14-19; And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven; to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, andfo0rdays, and for years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, andthe lesser light to rule the night; he made the stars also. And God set them in the fiemament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the nightfrom the darkness: and God sawthat it was good. And the evening and the morning were the fourth day".

The preceeding passages tell us how God created this earth's very own "time clock" and its very own "calendar." To suggest that God would allow a "clock" that He set, or a "calendar" that He designed to get out of time would seem to be a dangerous accusation.

As for my not knowing anything about those that I have studied under, I must say that you certainly are quick to make assumptions. You should be aware, that if you assume anything, the most likely result will be that you make an "ass/ out of u and/ me." You also assume that I never questioned the things I was taught nor the teacher.

Your last paragraph only serves to validate my suggestion that a deeper study of the Sabbath is needed. I say this because you have mentioned the 613 laws that the Jews observed. A through study of the Bible as well as the Jewish account of the origin of the rest of those laws will clearly show that the Ten Commandments and the Law of Moses are not the same. Or as you put it the "moral" and the ceremonial" laws. It might be well to identify these laws as "God's Eternal Moral Law" and "The Laws and the Statutes as given by Moses."

There is one additional point, that I raised in a previous post, that you haven't acknowledged or responded to.

"From your reply above, it would seem to indicate that the answer to my question is that you acknowlege that there is a seventh-day Sabbath from an intelectual stand point, but you don't accept it from a theological standpoint."

So now I must the question; Is your knowledge of the Sabbath intelectual or theological?

Respectfully, your brother in Christ,
Doc

 

[truthmagnet]

last sabbath there was a flyer in our bulletin that advertised an easter sunrise service with special music provided by our local church! the ad said worship music was provided by some local band, special music provided by the seventh day adventist church and the message by some pastor from a non-denominational church. it's going to be held out on the edge of a famous gorge here in colorado at 6:30am. my husband and i are appauled and dumfounded.......... we don't think participating in pagan rituals is petty. has anyone else experienced this?
Well folks, the time is almost here. Our church bulletin has advertised the "Sunrise Service" for 3wks. now. A cold front came in last night and we are having pretty nasty weather. so be it.
My husband met with the pastor a couple of weeks ago and expressed his concerns about our church participating in a well-known pagan ritual. the pastor kept trying to make this issue "personal" and my husband would just steer him back to the Bible. (seems it should have been the other way around, but those are the times we are living in, unfortunately) when all was said and done, the pastor said that he would try to show both sides and remind the church of the pagan roots of this "occassion". the results, i'm sorry to say were not good. the first half of his sermon did touch on the pagan origins of this holiday and it's accoutrements. he never said we should or should not partake of them. he just gave a portion of the historical information, no scripture. in fact, few of his sermons have scripture in them. anyway...............
the second half of the sermon was a very convoluted spin. he spoke of the Cave of Banyans and eluded that Christ went there for peace and solitude and that is where Peter made his statement, "You are the Christ". he showed a slide of the cave and told of all it's pagan history, the mythical god, Pan, etc. etc. and the slide stayed up the whole time he was making this part of his sermon. his convoluted point was that Christ went to this evil place (he pointed to the slide as he said this) for peace and quiet and many good things happened while he was there. what a twisted tale. Christ, according to the Bible "was on the road to Caesarea Phillipi when he asked his diciples, "who do the people say i am". He later went up the mountain, (Mt. Hermon most likely) where the transfiguration took place. now, the Cave of Banyans is in that area but no where in the Bible or any history, i could find, does it say our Lord spent time up near that cave. there is some essense of truth to part of what he said, it just was not all that he eluded to.
the essense was: apparently, (from what i have been able to dig up) Christ went up towards Caesarea Phillipi to get away from the Pharisees so he could have some quiet time to teach His apostles about what was going to happen to Him in the near future. This is when He told them He was going to die. The spin the pastor tried to put on this is that if Christ can go to an evil cave site, where pagan rituals abound, for peace and solitude and speak candidly with the apostles about who He was and what was to happen to Him then we can do good within the rhelms of paganism too. now i don't know if i explained that very well. it's really a stretch and very convoluted so it may be hard to understand how i've tried to put it down here. It's very sad to say that the fact is, the pastor will probably be at this service because his wife is singing at it! so much for his "unbiased" and "truth-filled" sermon. he finished by saying something to the effect of "whatever you choose to do, i will not judge you. just don't eat too many chocolate covered bunnies and make yourself sick." that right there made me sick.
So that's the sum of how this has evolved. it's very sad when a pastor convolutes God's word and Christ's intentions to try to justify his own lack of conviction. Now, onto the task of bringing him into alignment with God's Word or something or someone has to go.. what a drag that is. this is all the devil's distraction to keep the church from it's true work of evangelism and worship.

As for participating in the thread, here are my comments for what it's worth. #1-you first must know what the thread is about. If you are not a 7th Day Adventist and/or you have not studied the Bible well, and/or you know nothing about these so-called "Christian" holidays actually being pagan, you might have asked for information before participating. #2- the thread is not about a day, a week, a time or a calendar. it's about one of many pagan rituals that have infiltrated God's church.
You guys have gone all over the place with this thread and as for staying on topic and answering the original question, you score a big fat "F". the reason for my low grade is because, for the most part, you missed the reason for the thread to begin with. i asked, "has anyone else experienced this?" and no one answered that question. all we got here was a bunch of opinions whether you understood what you were talking about or not. no one asked, "what do you mean by pagan ritual". a few of you even seemed very proud and arrogant as you bloviated about what you clearly did not understand. there is nothing wrong with asking a question about what someone means if we don't understand something or simply saying, "i don't understand your point. could you be more specific?" or something along those lines. instead of being too proud to admit you don't know everything. to twist what someone else says just to make an argument or go off in left field picking on one sentence someone said, is not what i would call good Christian behavior. can we not reason with one another without being insulting or assuming the worst. are we here to learn and share or are we here to lift ourselves up and pretend we are smarter or more righteous than everyone else.
a few of you gave some thought to this and made some good comments but again.....no one answered my question.

 

[thecountrydoc]

Hi Truthmagnet,

You are absolutely correct! It does seem that no one has answered your question; "...we don't think participating in pagan rituals is petty. Has anyone else experienced this?" Let me say that your report of this is something that I have never seen nor heard of. However it does not suprise me.

For some reason SDAs seem to think that they are exempt from prophecy. The Apostle Paul wrote in II Thess. 2:1-4;

"Now we beseech you, brethern, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, that ye be not soon shaken in the mind, or troubled, niether by the spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worhiped so that he as God sitteth in the tempe of God, shewing himself that he is God."

This passage has been most commonly associated with Satan and the antichrist. However it should come as no suprise that the spirit of the antichrist may be manifest even in the SDA church.

So yes, I too am appalled. I also hope that you don't feel alone by the nonresponsiveness to your question because it was/is quite valid. You may have noticed that when I attempted to address the problem of the ties to paganism in previous post, the topic was, shall we say, derailed. Nor have any of my questions been answered. This is indeed most sad.

Respectfully, your brother in Christ,
Doc

 

[truthmagnet]

Hi Truthmagnet,

You are absolutely correct! It does seem that no one has answered your question; "...we don't think participating in pagan rituals is petty. Has anyone else experienced this?" Let me say that your report of this is something that I have never seen nor heard of. However it does not suprise me.

For some reason SDAs seem to think that they are exempt from prophecy. The Apostle Paul wrote in II Thess. 2:1-4; This passage has been most commonly associated with Satan and the antichrist. However it should come as no suprise that the spirit of the antichrist may be manifest even in the SDA church.

So yes, I too am appalled. I also hope that you don't feel alone by the nonresponsiveness to your question because it was/is quite valid. You may have noticed that when I attempted to address the problem of the ties to paganism in previous post, the topic was, shall we say, derailed. Nor have any of my questions been answered. This is indeed most sad.

Respectfully, your brother in Christ,
Doc

i have appreciated your post very much. i look forward to having more conversation with you. it is apparent, we are few. (know what i mean?) God bless.

 

[thecountrydoc]

Thank you Truthmagnet!

I pray on a daily basis that I am ready, not just getting ready and that I will be considered worthy to spend eternity with my Creator.

Your friend and brother in Christ,
Doc

 

[Sophia7]

Truthmagnet, do you ever shake hands with your pastor after the church service or with friends when you greet them in church? Do you know that many people believe that this practice had pagan origins?

Mithras was worshipped as guardian of arms, and patron of soldiers and armies. The handshake was developed by those who worshipped him as a token of friendship and as a gesture to show that you were unarmed. When Mithras later became the Roman god of contracts, the handshake gesture was imported throughout the Mediterranean and Europe by Roman soldiers.

(from http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer...opics/Religion/Mithraism/David_Fingrut**.html)

There are many other practices and beliefs, also, that pagans claim Christians adopted from them. There are pagans here at CF who post these theories in the forums that are open to non-Christians. I'm sure they would be happy to tell you that the miracles of Jesus and other Bible stories (especially the virgin birth, the incarnation, Jesus' death and resurrection, etc.) were really pagan myths that were plagiarized by Christians.

You're going to have to look pretty hard to find practices that you as a Christian, and even as an Adventist, do that someone doesn't associate with paganism. However, the fact that two things have similarities doesn't justify the assumption that one must have derived from the other; that must be proven. And even if all of the claims were true, how far would you be willing to go to avoid anything that was once associated with paganism, even if it no longer has those connotations? Just something to think about.

 

[thecountrydoc]

Hi Sophia7,

I realize that your last post was directed to Truthmagnet but I would like to ask you a question. Which do you belive originated first? Was it The God of heaven and creation? Or was it paganisim? Only the original can be counerfited.

If your answer is the God of creation, then you would do well to grasp correct concepts of Him. The genuine must be well studied before the counterfit can be detected. For example; By studying the $100 dollar bill first, the errors and mistakes of the counterfit will seen by those who are looking to tell which is which. It would do no good to study the counterfit first because the standard would not have been established.

The Creator God has no reason to counterfit the countrfit. Satan on the other hand has tried to find counterfits for everything that is of God since his fall from grace in heaven. It is Satan's desire to rob us of our salvation in any way that he can.

Respectfully, your brother in Christ,
Doc

 

[TrustAndObey]

I didn't get a chance to read all of the posts in the thread, but I will try to later.

I have a good friend from grade school that knows I accepted Christ as my Savior a couple of years ago. She thinks it's great.

The funny part is that she feels compelled to ask me to Christmas celebrations and Easter egg hunts, etc because she thinks those are the things that Christians "do."

I've told her in the past I don't celebrate those two occasions and the look on her face was complete bewilderment.

After reading some of this thread I decided to go ahead and e-mail and tell her WHY I don't.

I also e-mail with a couple of people from my church, and it always amazes me when one says "Happy Easter". I reply back with "I don't celebrate Easter" and even some Adventists seem perplexed by that.

There have been some great posts in here and I really will try to come back later to read them. I have a big test tomorrow so I can't right now.

~Lainie

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

Doc wrote:

So now I must the question; Is your knowledge of the Sabbath intelectual or theological?

It is both, I can't even fathom why anyone would want to seperate the two concepts. But what can I expect you asserted you know the influences upon everyone who ever relayed information to you.

As for my not knowing anything about those that I have studied under, I must say that you certainly are quick to make assumptions. You should be aware, that if you assume anything, the most likely result will be that you make an "ass/ out of u and/ me." You also assume that I never questioned the things I was taught nor the teacher.

No I never said anything about questioning anyone. I talked about not knowing the influences that other people have used. So in the above I think you are the one making incorrect observations.

I posted on my blog a good article on the subject based upon the recent article in the Adventist Review
http://cafesda.blogspot.com

 

[Sophia7]

Hi Sophia7,

I realize that your last post was directed to Truthmagnet but I would like to ask you a question. Which do you belive originated first? Was it The God of heaven and creation? Or was it paganisim? Only the original can be counerfited.

If your answer is the God of creation, then you would do well to grasp correct concepts of Him. The genuine must be well studied before the counterfit can be detected. For example; By studying the $100 dollar bill first, the errors and mistakes of the counterfit will seen by those who are looking to tell which is which. It would do no good to study the counterfit first because the standard would not have been established.

The Creator God has no reason to counterfit the countrfit. Satan on the other hand has tried to find counterfits for everything that is of God since his fall from grace in heaven. It is Satan's desire to rob us of our salvation in any way that he can.

Respectfully, your brother in Christ,
Doc

Doc, I hope you understand that I do not believe that the Bible has pagan origins. I mentioned what pagans say about Christianity in order to show that we can't just accept at face value what someone says about the origin of something.

You are still making the assumption, however, that if two things share some similarities, one must be a counterfeit of the other or be derived from the other.

You are also making the assumption that if pagans follow certain practices or use certain natural objects (things that God created) in their worship, that automatically renders these things evil and off-limits for Christians to use for different purposes, with no pagan connotations.

 

[truthmagnet]

thank you for reading this thread and for your sincerity in following God's will. you stay strong and faithful and Don't let nominal believers and skeptics discourage you. those are the times we are living in. bless you for reaching out to your friend. i pray she is open to all truth. God bless you and guide you.

 

[Sophia7]

I attended a passion play last night. It was a wonderful presentation of what Jesus did for us, and I pray that God reached many hearts with the gospel message that was portrayed through this play over the weekend. It was especially meaningful to me as I remembered how I became a Christian at age 16. It was just before Easter that year, and the special emphasis in Christian music on Jesus' death and resurrection really drove it home to me even though I had grown up in the Adventist Church and had heard the Bible stories all my life. During that Easter season, God used music and preaching to get through to me, to break through my "nominal" Christianity and to show me what being a Christian really meant. He led me for the first time to read my Bible and to get to know Jesus personally.

I believe that we as Christians should use every opportunity we can to tell people about Jesus. Times like Christmas and Easter afford us great opportunities since more people are interested in attending church and hearing the gospel then that at any other time of the year. God Himself uses such opportunities; He certainly did with me. Christians are not engaging in paganism when they do this.

 

[truthmagnet]

They may not be knowingly "engaging in paganism" but they are "engaging paganism". I'm pretty sure you know the pagan roots and meaning behind the entire celebration. Pagans designed it and the Catholic Church brought it into Christianity. They put 'christian' clothes on paganism and called it 'good' because they think they have the God given right. Man cannot make something Holy out of something wicked just by changing it's names and saying, "we mean it in a different way." What would you think if someone opened a liquor store or a brothel and called it "God's House". Would that make liquor and prostitution good? Of course not, but there is no difference. When terrorists say that they commit their horrid murders in the name of God, do you believe them? Of course not, but there is no difference. The Bible says, "Come out of her my people". God told His people, when they came into the promised land, "When you enter the land, the Lord your God has given you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there." There is no reason why we cannot tell the story of redemption without all these pagan trappings.
You say:, "During that Easter season, God used music and preaching to get through to me, to break through my "nominal" Christianity and to show me what being a Christian really meant."
I am happy the Holy Spirit spoke to you through these songs and sermons, but that could have happened any day of the week, any time of the year. It had nothing to do with Easter; it had to do with the fact that you were listening. A song touched your heart and the Holy Spirit came in. If our churches are only singing and preaching about redemption at one time of the year, that is a terrible travesty.
I was delivered out of the Occult/New Age while attending a "Feast of Tabernacles" campmeeting. I did not go to any of the actual meetings; I just went along to accompany my ailing sister. I did not want to be a Christian but God had other plans. During a 3 day and 3 night period the Holy Spirit reasoned with me through the Bible and the writings of Ellen White's Great Controversy book. I did not want any part of Christianity but I did want truth. That is what God was looking for. That was the opportunity He used to get through to me. It had nothing to do with the feasts and I don't believe in keeping the feast.
So why don't Christians talk about these Holy Days instead of participating in these counterfeit holidays? I have studied the feast days and I believe we can learn a great deal about God and about our relationship to Him when we study them.
Is it OK for a Christian to compromise the truth in order to get someone to come to the church?

 

[Sophia7]

I disagree. I do not believe that it is compromising truth to reach out to people during the Christmas and Easter seasons when so many more people are open to hearing the message than usual. Yes, we should be doing that all the time, but there's nothing wrong with putting a greater emphasis on it when people will be especially receptive to it. I also disagree with you about the time of year having nothing to do with my conversion experience. I was there, and I know what happened.

If you would like to keep the OT feasts, I have no problem with that, but I don't believe that they are required for Christians; I think that decision should be left up to the individual. Likewise, I believe that if you think Christian holidays are evil and pagan, you shouldn't participate. However, I also believe that this is a disputable matter that we shouldn't judge each other on.

 

[OntheDL]

I don't observe either Easter or Christmas. However here're some quotes from SOP on Christmas.

"The twenty-fifth of December is supposed to be the day of the birth of Jesus Christ, and its observance has become customary and popular. But yet there is no certainty that we are keeping the veritable day of our Saviour's birth. History gives us no certain assurance of this. The Bible does not give us the precise time. Had the Lord deemed this knowledge essential to our salvation, He would have spoken through His prophets and apostles, that we might know all about the matter. But the silence of the Scriptures upon this point evidences to us that it is hidden from us for the wisest purposes. {AH 477.2}
In His wisdom the Lord concealed the place where He buried Moses. God buried him, and God resurrected him and took him to heaven. This secrecy was to prevent idolatry. He against whom they rebelled while he was in active service, whom they provoked almost beyond human endurance, was almost worshiped as God after his separation from them by death. For the very same purpose He has concealed the precise day of Christ's birth, that the day should not receive the honor that should be given to Christ as the Redeemer of the world--one to be received, to be trusted, to be relied on as He who could save to the uttermost all who come unto Him. The soul's adoration should be given to Jesus as the Son of the infinite God. {AH 477.3}

The Day Not to Be Ignored.--As the twenty-fifth of December is observed to commemorate the birth of Christ, as the children have been instructed by precept and example that this was indeed a day of gladness and rejoicing, you will find it a difficult matter to pass over this period without giving it some attention. It can be made to serve a very good purpose. {AH 478.1}

The youth should be treated very carefully. They should not be left on Christmas to find their own amusement in vanity and pleasure seeking, in amusements which will be detrimental to their spirituality. Parents can control this matter by turning the minds and the offerings of their children to God and His cause and the salvation of souls. {AH 478.2}

The desire for amusement, instead of being quenched and arbitrarily ruled down, should be controlled and directed by painstaking effort upon the part of the parents. Their desire to make gifts may be turned into pure and holy channels and made to result in good to our fellow men by supplying the treasury in the great, grand work for which Christ came into our world. Self-denial and self-sacrifice marked His course of action. Let it mark ours who profess to love Jesus because in Him is centered our hope of eternal life. {AH 478.3}

The Interchange of Gifts as Tokens of Affection.-- The holiday season is fast approaching with its interchange of gifts, and old and young are intently studying what they can bestow upon their friends as a token of affectionate remembrance. It is pleasant to receive a gift, however small, from those we love. It is an assurance that we are not forgotten, and seems to bind us to them a little closer. . . . {AH 478.4}

It is right to bestow upon one another tokens of love and remembrance if we do not in this forget God, our best friend. We should make our gifts such as will prove a real benefit to the receiver. I would recommend such books as will be an aid in understanding the word of God or that will increase our love for its precepts. Provide something to be read during these long winter evenings. {AH 479.1}

Books for Children Are Recommended.--There are many who have not books and publications upon present truth. Here is a large field where money can be safely invested. There are large numbers of little ones who should be supplied with reading. The Sunshine Series, Golden Grains Series, Poems, Sabbath Readings, [NOTE: REFERENCE IS MADE IN THIS ARTICLE TO NONCURRENT PUBLICATIONS. AS THE PRINCIPLES SET FORTH IN THIS CONNECTION ARE APPLICABLE TODAY, THESE SPECIFIC REFERENCES ARE LEFT IN THE ARTICLE.] etc., are all precious books and may be introduced safely into every family. The many trifles usually spent on candies and useless toys may be treasured up with which to buy these volumes. . . . {AH 479.2}

Let those who wish to make valuable presents to their children, grandchildren, nephews, and nieces procure for them the children's books mentioned above. For young people the Life of Joseph Bates is a treasure; also the three volumes of The Spirit of Prophecy. [NOTE: EARLY E. G. WHITE BOOKS PRECEDING THE PRESENT "CONFLICT OF THE AGES SERIES."] These volumes should be placed in every family in the land. God is giving light from heaven, and not a family should be without it. Let the presents you shall make be of that order which will shed beams of light upon the pathway to heaven. {AH 479.3}

Jesus Not to Be Forgotten.--Brethren and sisters, while you are devising gifts for one another, I would remind you of our heavenly Friend, lest you should be unmindful of His claims. Will He not be pleased if we show that we have not forgotten Him? Jesus, the Prince of life, gave all to bring salvation within our reach. . . . He suffered even unto death, that He might give us eternal life. {AH 480.1}

It is through Christ that we receive every blessing. . . . Shall not our heavenly Benefactor share in the tokens of our gratitude and love? Come, brethren and sisters, come with your children, even the babes in your arms, and bring your offerings to God according to your ability. Make melody to Him in your hearts, and let His praise be upon your lips. {AH 480.2}

Christmas---a Time to Honor God.--By the world the holidays are spent in frivolity and extravagance, gluttony and display. . . . Thousands of dollars will be worse than thrown away upon the coming Christmas and New Year's in needless indulgences. But it is our privilege to depart from the customs and practices of this degenerate age; and instead of expending means merely for the gratification of the appetite or for needless ornaments or articles of clothing, we may make the coming holidays an occasion in which to honor and glorify God.

Christ should be the supreme object; but as Christmas has been observed, the glory is turned from Him to mortal man, whose sinful, defective character made it necessary for Him to come to our world." {AH 480.3}

"Our children have learned to regard Christmas as a day of rejoicing, and we should find it a difficult matter to pass over this holiday without some attention. It may be made to serve a good purpose. The youth should not be left to find their own amusement in vanity and pleasure-seeking. If parents will make the necessary effort, the minds of the children may be directed to God, to his cause, and to the salvation of souls. Their desire to make gifts may be turned into channels of good to their fellow-men, to sustaining the work which Christ came to do. {RH, December 15, 1885 par. 4}
On Christmas let the members of every church assemble, with offerings from willing hands and hearts,--the fruits of love and gratitude to God. Let all exert their influence and ability to make these gatherings attractive and interesting. See how much means you can gather to advance the work of the Lord. Let those who have heretofore planned for self, begin now to plan for the cause of God. On similar occasions in the past, you have taxed your inventive powers to prepare something that would surprise and gratify your friends. Be as earnest and persevering in rendering to God that which is his due. Let the children learn the blessedness of giving, by bringing their little gifts to add to the offerings of their parents." {RH, December 15, 1885 par. 5}

 

[Sophia7]

Thank you, OntheDL. I think these quotes actually show a fairly balanced approach. We as a family do try to avoid the commercialism and worldliness often associated with these holidays, and we put the focus on Jesus instead. It is very difficult to ignore them completely, especially with young children, but if that's what others have been convicted to do, that's fine with me. I just am not so convicted myself.

I believe that these are great opportunities to share the gospel with people who may not otherwise be interested. I also believe that they are great opportunities to teach our children about unselfishness and service to others. Many people experience depression during holidays like Christmas. If we can lessen their suffering by showing them the love of Christ at that time when they are especially in need of it, I don't see anything wrong with that. I believe that God Himself takes advantage of such opportunities to open many people's hearts when He knows they will be most receptive.