Let's Talk About Hell

Stryder06 · May 5, 2010

mwood30 said:
I know you are sincere when you say my beliefs are unbiblical, so I won't take personal offence.

Paul mentions in Ephesions there are two or more ages ahead. Let's see if we first agree on that, and I'll try to fill in a timeline that answers all three of your verses. I promised you in the past, and kept my word. I'm not avoiding your verses, just trying to lay some groundwork so we can see who's timeline is 'biblical' or not. Okay?

So that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. - Ephesians 2:7

And are you willing to play a game with me? Can I try to walk you down my logic path to see if you can knock me off it? It'll be fun.

And if you are willing, do agree Paul wrote there are "ages (plural) to come"?

I'm fine with you showing me your chain of logic.

mwood30 said:
Let me give you a heads up why I asked you about the ages. I'll tip my hand. I'm not afraid.

In your model of the world, there are two ages:
The Current Age
The Eternal Age

And you interpret the three passages from that perspective. I will humbly submit that you are the one who doesn't have a biblical model. The Bible specifically references coming ages (plural). I submit the biblical model is:

The Age of Decision (The Current Age)
The Age of Separation (The New Heaven and New Earth)
The Age of Reconciliation (When God is all in all)

There, I have shown you my cards. But before we can determine who has the correct biblical interpretation of your verses, we must first determine who has the correct biblical model, or not.

Let us examine your Age of Reconciliation. Paul says in 1 Cor 15: 24-28

Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he "has put everything under his feet."Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

Notice here that God (The Father) is made all in all when Christ submits to the Father, which happens after the last enemy, death, is destroyed. This we see taking place in Revelation 20:14. Notice also that when John saw the new heaven and the new earth he said he saw no more sea. Some believe this was a symbol representing the end of separation. God will dwell among us. There will be no separation. The "ages" (aion) Paul is talking about is the time of eternity. During those ceaseless ages will we ever be learning from the Master about what Christ has done for us.

Der Alte · May 5, 2010

mwood30 said:
And another early Jewish Rabbinic writing said:

* The judgment of the unrighteous in Gehenna shall endure twelve months, for it is written, It will be from one moon until its moon. Eduyoth 2:10
The Rabbinic author above understood the reference to the lunar year, for the above author wrote at a time when the Jews still measured time based on lunar cycles. Unfortunately, modern translators are unfamiliar with the early Jewish lunar cycles and therefore do not convert the Jewish idiom into a modern English equivalent. Conversion of cultural idioms is an absolute essential of proper translation.

This deliberately falsified reference to the Talmud purports to show Tractate Eduyoth 2:10 saying, "The judgment of the unrighteous in Gehenna shall endure twelve months," and supposedly referencing Isaiah 66:23 saying "for it is written, 'It will be from one moon until its moon.'

Here is what Babylonian Talmud Tractate Eduyoth 2:10 actually says.

Tract Eduyoth (Testimonies)
Chapter 2 MISHNA X: Furthermore, he was saying: There are five things of a twelve months' duration--viz.: the punishment of the generation of the flood, that of job, of the Egyptians, of Gog and Magog in time to come [Ezek. xxxv. 2], and of the wicked in the infernum, for it reads [Isa. xv. 6]: "It will take place (chodesh bechodsho) every month," i.e., from the month he died next year the same month renewed. R. Johanan b. Nari says (regarding the last point): It lasts only from Passover till Azereth, for it reads [ibid.]: "From one festival to the other."

Tract Eduyoth (Testimonies): Chapter II

The words It will be from one moon until its moon. do NOT occur in this tractate and the reference is to Isa 15:6, NOT 66:23!

Thus you have not presented any evidence, whatsoever, supporting your assertion that Isaiah 66:23 is a reference to the annual Lunar cycle. OTOH I have presented evidence from renowned Hebrew scholars showing, from similar occurrences in the O.T., that the phrase "from new moon to new moon," means "from month to month!" Just as the phrase "from Sabbath to Sabbath" in the same verse means "from week to week."

And note I have supported my argument without falsifying evidence.

Nachtjager · May 5, 2010

This post has gone 'round the twist I think. I have a lot of issues right now with my faith and have done a lot of study in the last two or three years. I've studied Judaism and have Jewish friends - in short, NO, they do not, nor have they ever, believed in the Christian concept of "hell."

To the OP, no, I don't believe in eternal damnation and punishment everlasting either. There's no mention of this, oddly, in any of the early church creeds. Much of what is preached from the pulpits today, IMO, is pulled from Dante's Inferno and little else.

After intense study of the scriptures and early church texts, I'm inclined to believe you either get an eternal reward, or, you just cease to be. I have a lot of issues with my faith right now, but I'd come to the decision that our classical concept of hell was really messed up long before my current spiritual crisis.

Take care and God bless.

Der Alte · May 5, 2010

mwood30 said:
Der Alter said:

You are mistaken I had not replied to you before. If you want me to review a previous post please extend me the courtesy of linking to it as I did. Here is a part of a longer article on Gehenna from the Jewish Encyclopedia showing that in fact the Jews before and during the time of Jesus believed Gehenna to be the equivalent of hell.

Jewish Encyclopedia, GEHENNA
by : Kaufmann Kohler Ludwig Blau

The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch was originally in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). For this reason the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a); [Note, this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT the bias of Christian translators.] according to Gen. R. ix. 9, the words "very good" in Gen. i. 31 refer to hell; hence the latter must have been created on the sixth day.

The "fiery furnace" that Abraham saw (Gen. xv. 17, Hebr.) was Gehenna (Mek. xx. 18b, 71b; comp. Enoch, xcviii. 3, ciii. 8; Matt. xiii. 42, 50; 'Er. 19a, where the "fiery furnace" is also identified with the gate of Gehenna). Opinions also vary as to the situation, extent, and nature of hell. The statement that Gehenna is situated in the valley of Hinnom near Jerusalem, in the "accursed valley" (Enoch, xxvii. 1 et seq.), means simply that it has a gate there. It was in Zion, and had a gate in Jerusalem (Isa. xxxi. 9). It had three gates, one in the wilderness, one in the sea, and one in Jerusalem ('Er. 19a). The gate lies between two palm-trees in the valley of Hinnom, from which smoke is continually rising (ib.).

Because of the extent of Gehenna the sun, on setting in the evening, passes by it, and receives from it its own fire (evening glow; B. B. 84a). A fiery stream ("dinur") falls upon the head of the sinner in Gehenna (hag. 13b).

There is a smell of sulfur in Gehenna (Enoch, lxvii. 6). This agrees with the Greek idea of hell (Lucian, Αληθεις Ιστοριαι, i. 29, in Dietrich, "Abraxas," p. 36). The sulfurous smell of the Tiberian medicinal springs was ascribed to their connection with Gehenna. In Isa. lxvi. 16, 24 it is said that God judges by means of fire.

Gehenna is dark in spite of the immense masses of fire; it is like night (Yeb. 109b; comp. Job x. 22). The same idea also occurs in Enoch, x. 4, lxxxii. 2; Matt. viii. 12, xxii. 13, xxv. 30 (comp. Schwally, l.c. p. 176).

It is assumed that there is an angel-prince in charge of Gehenna. He says to God: "Put everything into my sea; nourish me with the seed of Seth; I am hungry." But God refuses his request, telling him to take the heathen peoples (Shab. 104). God says to the angel-prince: "I punish the slanderers from above, and I also punish them from below with glowing coals" ('Ar. 15b).

Judgment.

It is assumed in general that sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell (B.M. 83b). To every individual is apportioned two shares, one in hell and one in paradise. At death, however, the righteous man's portion in hell is exchanged, so that he has two in heaven, while the reverse is true in the case of sinners (hag. 15a). Hence it would have been better for the latter not to have lived at all (Yeb. 63b).

They are cast into Gehenna to a depth commensurate with their sinfulness. They say: "Lord of the world, Thou hast done well; Paradise for the pious, Gehenna for the wicked" ('Er. 19a). There are three categories of men; the wholly pious and the arch-sinners are not purified, but only those between these two classes (Ab. R. N. 41). A similar view is expressed in the Babylonian Talmud, which adds that those who have sinned themselves but have not led others into sin remain for twelve months in Gehenna; "after twelve months their bodies are destroyed, their souls are burned, and the wind strews the ashes under the feet of the pious. But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).

As mentioned above, heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al.). " The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). (see image) Valley of Ge-Hinnom.(From a photograph by Bonfils.) The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according to Isa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b). Enoch also holds (xlviii. 9) that the sinners will disappear like chaff before the faces of the elect. There will be no Gehenna in the future world, however, for God will take the sun out of its case, and it will heal the pious with its rays and will punish the sinners (Ned. 8b).

Copyright 2002 JewishEncyclopedia.com. All rights reserved.

JewishEncyclopedia.com - GEHENNA

Click to expand...

I trust you understand how to interpret any source you quote from?

The Jewish Encyclopedia documents the meanings of words as they evolved throughout the centuries. As with all languages, words change. Not too long ago "sophisticated" meant "corrupt" and now it is seen as a compliment of standing today.

I'm sorry this is meaningless nonsense! NO, NONE, ZERO evidence for any of your arguments! Were you to actually read this entry you would see the several references to the Talmud. This records the understanding of the Jews from the earliest recorded interpretations.

The question is, what did Gehenna mean at the time Jesus used it.

The Rabbinic school of thought that drove the popular meaning of the word in the first century was the School of Hillel. In fact, Paul studied under Gamliel, the grandson of Hillel. And the word meant at that time a place of temporary punishment. Really.

You can quote how the word changed over time. But I'm personally more interested in the message Jesus delivered when speaking to his first century Koine Greek audience.

Once again nonsense. You can post these meaningless objections but I still do NOT see any evidence. You mentioned Hillel but still no evidence. You reject whatever I post although you know absolutely nothing about it and do not post any credible, verifiable, historical evidence just your own opinions, assumptions/presuppositions.

Here from a source which you can verify online. It appears that you either misrepresented, or were misinformed, about Hillel's view.

The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah Alfred Edersheim 1883
Appendix 19 ON ETERNAL PUNISHMENT, ACCORDING TO THE RABBIS AND THE NEW TESTAMENT

Leaving aside the teaching of the Apocrypha and Pseudepigraphic Writing (to which Dr. Pusey has sufficiently referred), the first Rabbinic utterances come to us from the time immediately before that of Christ, from the Schools of Shammai and Hillel (Rosh haSh. 16 b last four lines, and 17 a).2 The former [Shammai] arranged all mankind into three classes: the perfectly righteous, who are 'immediately written and sealed to eternal life;' the perfectly wicked, who are 'immediately written and sealed to Gehenna;' and an intermediate class. 'who go down to Gehinnom, and moan, and come up again,' according to Zech. xiii. 9, and which seemed also indicated in certain words in the Song of Hannah (1 Sam. ii. 6). The careful reader will notice that this statement implies belief in Eternal Punishment on the part of the School of Shammai. For (1) The perfectly wicked are spoken of as 'written and sealed unto Gehenna;' (2) The school of Shammai expressly quotes, in support of what it teaches about these wicked, Dan xii. 2, a passage which undoubtedly refers to the final judgment after the Resurrection; (3) The perfectly wicked, so punished, are expressly distinguished from the third, or intermediate class, who merely 'go down to Gehinnom,' but are not 'written and sealed,' and 'come up again.'

2. In view of the strange renderings and interpretations given of Rosh haSh. 16 b, 17 a, I must call special attention to this locus classicus.
Substantially the same, as regards Eternity of Punishment, is the view of the School of Hillel (u. s. 17 a). In regard to sinners of Israel and of the Gentiles it teaches, indeed, that they are tormented in Gehenna for twelve months, after which their bodies and souls are burnt up and scattered as dust under the feet of the righteous; but it significantly excepts from this number certain classes of transgressors 'who go down to Gehinnom and are punished there to ages of ages.' That the Niphal form of the verb used, Nynwdyn; must mean 'punished' and not 'judged,' appears, not only from the context, but from the use of the same word and form in the same tractate (Rosh haSh. 12 a, lines 7 &c. from top), when it is said of the generation of the Flood that 'they were punished' surely not 'judged' - by 'hot water.' However, therefore the School of Hillel might accentuate the mercy of God, or limit the number of those who would suffer Eternal Punishment, it did teach Eternal Punishment in the case of some. And this is the point in question.

But, since the Schools of Shammai and Hillel represented the theological teaching in the time of Christ and His Apostles, it follows, that the doctrine of Eternal Punishment was that held in the days of our Lord, however it may afterwards have been modified. Here, so far as this book is concerned, we might rest the case. But for completeness' sake it will be better to follow the historical development of Jewish theological teaching, at least a certain distance.

The doctrine of the Eternity of Punishments seems to have been held by the Synagogue throughout the whole first century of our era. This will appear from the sayings of the Teachers who flourished during its course. The Jewish Parable of the fate of those who had not kept their festive garments in readiness or appeared in such as were not clean (Shabb. 152 b, 153 a) has been already quoted in our exposition of the Parables of the Man without the Wedding-garment and of the Ten Virgins. But we have more than this. We are told (Ber. 28 b) that, when that great Rabbinic authority of the first century, Rabbi Jochanan ben Zakkai - 'the light of Israel, the right hand pillar, the mighty hammer' - lay a dying and wept, he accounted for his tears by fear as to his fate in judgment, illustrating the danger by the contrast of punishment by an earthly king 'whose bonds are not eternal bonds nor his death eternal death,' while as regarded God and His judgment: 'if He is angry with me, His Wrath is an Eternal Wrath, if He binds me in fetters, His fetters are Eternal fetters, and if He kills me, His death is an Eternal Death.' In the same direction is this saying of another great Rabbi of the first century, Elieser (Shabb, 152 b, about the middle), to the effect that 'the souls of the righteous are hidden under the throne of glory,' while those of the wicked were to be bound and in unrest (twklwhw twmmwz), one Angel hurling them to another from one end of the world to the other - of which latter strange idea he saw confirmation in 1 Sam. xxv. 29. To the fate of the righteous applied, among other beautiful passages, Is. lvii. 2, to that of the wicked Is. lvii. 21. Evidently, the views of the Rabbis of the first century were in strict accordance with those Shammai and Hillel.

Der Alte · May 5, 2010

Nachtjager said:
This post has gone 'round the twist I think. I have a lot of issues right now with my faith and have done a lot of study in the last two or three years. I've studied Judaism and have Jewish friends - in short, NO, they do not, nor have they ever, believed in the Christian concept of "hell."

To the OP, no, I don't believe in eternal damnation and punishment everlasting either. There's no mention of this, oddly, in any of the early church creeds. Much of what is preached from the pulpits today, IMO, is pulled from Dante's Inferno and little else.

After intense study of the scriptures and early church texts, I'm inclined to believe you either get an eternal reward, or, you just cease to be. I have a lot of issues with my faith right now, but I'd come to the decision that our classical concept of hell was really messed up long before my current spiritual crisis.

Take care and God bless.

See my post immediately above this. You have been misinformed by someone about what the Jews believed in the past about eternal punishment.

laconicstudent · May 5, 2010

Do we care what the Jews believe about Hell?

Der Alte · May 5, 2010

laconicstudent said:
Do we care what the Jews believe about Hell?

Only if we are interested in the truth. Many johnny-come-lately religions which claim that the concept of hell was copied by the early church from pagan religions such as Greece and Rome. The truth is the ancient Jews before and during the time of believed in a place of eternal punishment and nothing Jesus said or did contradicted that belief.

laconicstudent · May 5, 2010

Der Alter said:
Only if we are interested in the truth. Many johnny-come-lately religions which claim that the concept of hell was copied by the early church from pagan religions such as Greece and Rome. The truth is the ancient Jews before and during the time of believed in a place of eternal punishment and nothing Jesus said or did contradicted that belief.

Well, I would agree. I'm just always skeptical of basing theology off what Jews believe.

JamesAH · May 5, 2010

Are these the same Jews that deny Christ is the one true Messiah?

Der Alte · May 5, 2010

JamesAH said:
Are these the same Jews that deny Christ is the one true Messiah?

And you think this question is relevant how? This is the logical fallacy, "Poisoning the well" "Nothing they say is relevant because they reject Christ."

Mat 23:2 [Jesus] Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

laconicstudent · May 5, 2010

Der Alter said:
"Nothing they say is relevant because they reject Christ."

None of their theology post-Pentecost is relevant for exactly that reason. I suppose it might be interesting as a curiosity, like the way I might read a book about Zoroastrianism, but they don't have the Truth.

Ave Maria · May 5, 2010

Here is the true teaching about Hell:

IV. HELL
1033 We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: "He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."612 Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren.613 To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called "hell."
1034 Jesus often speaks of "Gehenna" of "the unquenchable fire" reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost.614 Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,"615 and that he will pronounce the condemnation: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!"616
1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."617 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.
1036 The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on the subject of hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny. They are at the same time an urgent call to conversion: "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few."618

Since we know neither the day nor the hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, when the single course of our earthly life is completed, we may merit to enter with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, like the wicked and slothful servants, be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, into the outer darkness where "men will weep and gnash their teeth."619
1037 God predestines no one to go to hell;620 for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want "any to perish, but all to come to repentance":621

Father, accept this offering
from your whole family.
Grant us your peace in this life,
save us from final damnation,
and count us among those you have chosen.622

598 1 Jn 3:2; cf. 1 Cor 13:12; Rev 22:4.
599 Benedict XII, Benedictus Deus (1336)S 1000; cf. LG 49.
600 Phil 1:23; cf. Jn 14:3; 1 Thess 4:17.
601 Cf. Rev 2:17.
602 St. Ambrose, In Luc.,10,121L 15 1834A.
603 1 Cor 2:9.
604 St. Cyprian, Ep. 58,10,1:CSEL 3/2,665.
605 Rev 22:5; cf. Mt 25:21,23.

So, as you can see, the primary punishment of Hell is separation from God. This is also a worse punishment than fire. However, I do still believe that Hell will be a place of fire and brimstone as well as separation from God.

Stephen Kendall · May 6, 2010

Jesus' statement, "Let the dead bury the dead, " should tell us a bit about the hell to come. Do people even know that they are already dead and in a pre-hell? They live a life of darkness that rejects the love of God and craves their fleshly desires. What good is obeying the teachings of Christ to them who crave sin? So, if they are in a pre-hell now, how hot is it? Are they really happy yet, or are they finding their darken life much less worth living? Are they scared for what is to come, more darkness? Life is about giving, loving and obeying Jesus. Jesus came to give a pathway away from our death. We bare not a torch of hell, but of the light of God for others to follow through Jesus, as to find their Father in Heaven. People are already in their death and now have a taste of hell. Isn't it our job to help them out? The teachings of Jesus Christ are put into parables to help us and others. We teach others to obey Christ's teachings that he gave us. New believers will be in safe keeping in his word and in the Holy Spirit given to them. The idea of the Gospel is about spreading love (God's promise, Jesus Christ, His son and His light) which dispels the darkness. Our obedience should be to the teachings of Jesus Christ (His Gospel) which helps to spread love to every corner of the world. Hell is fire that gives no light; even as a fire, hell is a lie, for its captives exist in outer darkness. You will not be effective to lead people to Jesus outside of his teachings, for his teachings only demonstrates loving others and our Father in Heaven. It is people who are lost and in need of light, so they can see. Their hell is an existence in darkness, partly now and total darkness to come. Love them and help them. Fear, like hell and sin, can be filled with emptiness and darkness. Don't preach fear, for you have no authenticity for it, since you are instead a child of light. We should instead show our light (obeying Jesus Christ and being the children of God through him). We can just warn of Judgment Day to come and offer our love and testimony of our Father in Heaven and His son, Jesus Christ. We trust in God and not in our own very limited and human-like understanding. Was he not merciful to send his own son to the world? Did he not also send the prophets of old & more recent Christian believers, and yet even now, us to help the lost. Hold the light of Jesus' Words & teachings by living them out. Spreading love and Jesus' reconciliation & hope is the light that helps lost souls out of their growing hells.

Jesus gave us a job and the light to do it in. Isn't that enough? Joy is the Lord's. Come and share in his joy. Praise God.

The Penitent Man · May 6, 2010

mwood30 said:
The insistance on hell makes the effect of the crucifixion a very cruel event for billions. Think about it.

Before Jesus came, the wages of sin was death. The unrepentant man died (along with the rest of humanity).

Now, think about this my hell insisting friend. You say, from the unrepentant man's perspective, Jesus' sacrifice on the cross changed his fate from death to an eternity of torment. This was the effect of the cross?

And for those who claim extermination, I say the same. If Jesus never came, the unrepentant man would die and stay dead. Now that Christ came, the annihilists say the effect of the cross is for this guy to be resurrected so he can suffer and then be exterminated. Jesus came for vengence?

Come on guys. It's the doctrine of hell that is revolting. It mocks the incredible effect of the cross.

You're very good at twisting Scripture. But not good enough to trick me.

LittleLambofJesus · May 6, 2010

laconicstudent said:
Do we care what the Jews believe about Hell?

Nope, neither do I care what the Muslims believe about it

Hell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Abrahamic

Judaism

The overwhelming majority of rabbinic thought maintains that people are not in Gehenna forever; the longest that one can be there is said to be 11 months, however there has been the occasional noted exception. Some consider it a spiritual forge where the soul is purified for its eventual ascent to Olam Habah (heb. עולם הבא; lit. "The world to come", often viewed as analogous to Heaven). This is also mentioned in the Kabbalah, where the soul is described as breaking, like the flame of a candle lighting another: the part of the soul that ascends being pure and the "unfinished" piece being reborn.
According to Jewish teachings, hell is not entirely physical; rather, it can be compared to a very intense feeling of shame. People are ashamed of their misdeeds and this constitutes suffering which makes up for the bad deeds. When one has so deviated from the will of God, one is said to be in gehinom

Islam

Main article: Jahannam
Muslims believe in jahannam (in Arabic: جهن&#1605 (which is related to the Hebrew word gehinnom and resembles the versions of Hell in Christianity). In the Qur'an, the holy book of Islam, there are literal descriptions of the condemned in a fiery Hell, as contrasted to the garden-like Paradise (jannah) enjoyed by righteous believers.

Christianity

Main article: Hell in Christian beliefs
The Christian doctrine of hell derives from the teaching of the New Testament, where hell is typically described using the Greek words Tartarus or Hades or the Arabic word Gehenna. These three terms have different meanings and must be recognized.

Timothew · May 7, 2010

LittleLambofJesus said:
Nope, neither do I care what the Muslims believe about it

Hell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Abrahamic

Judaism

The overwhelming majority of rabbinic thought maintains that people are not in Gehenna forever; the longest that one can be there is said to be 11 months, however there has been the occasional noted exception. Some consider it a spiritual forge where the soul is purified for its eventual ascent to Olam Habah (heb. עולם הבא; lit. "The world to come", often viewed as analogous to Heaven). This is also mentioned in the Kabbalah, where the soul is described as breaking, like the flame of a candle lighting another: the part of the soul that ascends being pure and the "unfinished" piece being reborn.
According to Jewish teachings, hell is not entirely physical; rather, it can be compared to a very intense feeling of shame. People are ashamed of their misdeeds and this constitutes suffering which makes up for the bad deeds. When one has so deviated from the will of God, one is said to be in gehinom

Islam

Main article: Jahannam
Muslims believe in jahannam (in Arabic: جهن&#1605 (which is related to the Hebrew word gehinnom and resembles the versions of Hell in Christianity). In the Qur'an, the holy book of Islam, there are literal descriptions of the condemned in a fiery Hell, as contrasted to the garden-like Paradise (jannah) enjoyed by righteous believers.

Christianity

Main article: Hell in Christian beliefs
The Christian doctrine of hell derives from the teaching of the New Testament, where hell is typically described using the Greek words Tartarus or Hades or the Arabic word Gehenna. These three terms have different meanings and must be recognized.

Yep, Tartarus, Hades, Gehenna, these 3 terms have different meanings and must be recognized. That's a good point.

The 4th is the Lake of Fire from Revelation. What's up with that?

LittleLambofJesus · May 7, 2010

Timothew said:
Yep, Tartarus, Hades, Gehenna, these 3 terms have different meanings and must be recognized. That's a good point.

The 4th is the Lake of Fire from Revelation. What's up with that?

Neither the Jews or Muslims read Revelation [seems to be just a Christian thang].
I had a rather unique view of what that LoF could be symbolizing [I view Revelation as a Covenantle change of Priesthoods]. Perhaps you can give a view on it? Thanks

http://www.christianforums.com/t7434988-4/#post53976446
OC Jerusalem and Lake of Fire

Timothew · May 7, 2010

LittleLambofJesus said:
Neither the Jews or Muslims read Revelation [seems to be just a Christian thang].
I had a rather unique view of what that LoF could be symbolizing [I view Revelation as a Covenantle change of Priesthoods]. Perhaps you can give a view on it? Thanks

http://www.christianforums.com/t7434988-4/#post53976446
OC Jerusalem and Lake of Fire

I went and subscribed to that thread. I don't want to give an opinion right now, because I'm pretty ignorant about the book of revelation.

Tim

Timothew · May 7, 2010

Unless you need another opinion from an ignorant person?

LittleLambofJesus · May 7, 2010

Timothew said:
I went and subscribed to that thread. I don't want to give an opinion right now, because I'm pretty ignorant about the book of revelation.

Tim

No worries. So are the Jews, Muslims and Atheists

Romans 13:12 The Night progresses, the yet Day has-neared/hggiken <1448> (5758).
We should be putting off then the works of the Darkness, we should be putting on the implements of the Light.

Reve 1:3 Happy the one reading and the ones hearing the Words of the Prophecy and keepings in it having been Written, for the Time nigh/egguV <1451>. [Reve 22:6,10]

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