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Let's Talk About Hell (7)
- Thread starter Lisa*Lisa
- Start date
lol, and the image of Radar O'Reilly comes to mind for me.
According to the word of God, this is exacly the means used.
And it is a more sure method than practiced by those that create their own "word" of their own gods.
It is true that without belief, one cannot be a Christian. And it is equally true that the record we have of Jesus Christ for which Christians take their name is believed to be the record God has preserved.
For this reason psuedepigrapha is rejected by the larger part of those that profess to be Christians.
When we examine the doctrines and practices of those that believe what they want to believe, we see the spurious and inconsistent nature of their beliefs.
One is only a Christian by confessing the Christ of scripture. All others follow a false christ, as Christ warned.
Well, this is just one facet of mindset that arises out of secular humanism: kill those who do not conform.
Whereas the principals set forth in scripture teach us that there are going to be those that reject Christ, and as the parable of the soils teaches...we let them grow, rather than trying to pull them out.
In nature we see a process by which characteristics of one plant are absorbed by another. This is, I believe, seen in the fellowships around the world, as well. And it is not the attendance, or proximity that sees this effected, but it is the word of God made real to those that are natural.
Sometimes it takes quite a while for this to take place, but it happens. Some can be exposed to the word of God for years before they yield to the Spirit of God and confess their sin of unbelief. And quite often this unbelief comes nicely wrapped in "papers" marked logic, reason, and intellect. But the wisdom that comes from God cannot be purchased in this world...
And it may be that God will use this "poor girl," rich in that she has a concern for the spiritual condition of her family...to lead those among her family from a very certain destiny of separation from God which will be final.
Compassion is a gift from God, Soulgazer.
What is worse is to replace Him with a god of one's own construction. The intellectual gods of secular humanism are no differently built, though they are not carved out of wood or stone.
These gods are built in concepts, human desire, and lifestyles.
Where do you stand on abortion, Soulgazer? You have already expressed a desire to see those that affirm the word of God's teaching made extinct. You have also disavowed, without cause, anti-semitism. Could it be that if you had the power to stifle the beliefs of others...you would do so. If you had the power to erase from existance those that believe differently...would you do so? Think carefully before you answer. Your heart is constantly being betrayed in your words, my friend.
God bless.
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Soulgazer
Christian Gnostic
Well, you sure have a way of twisting words around. *clutching my teddy*
There is nothing wrong with that girl being rich in the concern for her family, other that anyone who believes in eternal torture is so dirt poor in understanding God, that they are Christian in name only, and if there were a place of eternal torture, they would wind up in it.
If you want to start a thread about abortion, I'll put in my two cents. I am pro-life which means that I am anti abortion, anti execution(which is just delayed abortion), anti murder, anti war(organized murder).
Would I stifle the teaching of hell fire? No more than I would like to stifle the teaching of Jihad. How do you feel about the teaching of Jihad? Or how about burning kittens? Do you feel that we should teach our children how to burn kittens? Or heck, how about priests reaching down the pants of children in the time honored tradition of the church? (Chaucer)
You know what is worse than replacing God with a god of your own construction? Replacing Him with a god of somebody else's construction.
I'll let you in on a little secret...shhhhhh....it's ALL pseudopigraphia.
As long as you look to writings as "the word of God" you will never know God. Sometimes it takes people years, even a lifetime to figure this out. Some never figure it out. You know what? God loves them anyway. Even if they don't get into the kingdom---at least they don't get tortured by a made up god.
One is only a Christian by loving God and their neighbors. All others follow a false Christ. The ones that believe that God would do to a human what we wouldn't even do to a kitten? They don't even follow a false Christ. They follow a genuine anti-christ.
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Nothing was twisted, my friend. Not by me:
Originally Posted by Soulgazer
People who teach the doctrine of Hell, seriously IMO, should not be allowed to have children. Nor should they be allowed around children. They probably shouldn't be allowed around the opposite sex period, because hey, accidents happen.
You should really put a little more thought into what you commit to public domain before posting.
But she should not be allowed to procreate?
And that is the historical method of the world system, not mention Satan...of trying to quell truth.
Exterminate them.
I have detected traces of conservatism in you, Soulgazer, and have commented a few times to try to better understand how deep it might run on some issues. You once commented on the state of our country, which was the first evidence of this.
Glad to hear it.
But how does that match up with not allowing those you disfavor from having children?
And we would be in disagreement on this one: those who murder, for example, forfeit their own lives. It is a basic biblical concept, and one which the Judgment of God is pictured.
There is a difference, though, between justice and murder. Murderers should be put to death. Of course, don't get me wrong, I believe the evidence needs to be irrefutable in establishing guilt before this takes place, but, I think that suitable punishment for the crime should match the crime.
Organized murder?
C'mon, kemosabe, was it organized murder when America fought to become independant?
But you would like to see those you feel to be in error stop having children?
Just isn't lining up.
I can understand it, actually. Radical Islamists feel they are compelled by the word of God to perform as they do.
What is unfortunate is that they claim to both accept and honor the word of God but do not think to stop and compare the God of the Bible with the god muhammad created.
And false religion as well as cults are easily identifiable by their understanding of Christ.
In the Old Testament, as you have mentioned a couple of times, Israel was commanded to kill. While I can read scripture and see that God has in the past used nations to judge other nations and see nothing incredibly astonishing in that, you see it as unimaginable for a god of lve, devoid of judgment...to operate in such a way. He also did this in judgment of the Nation He created.
What we see consistently in scripture is that God judges. Sometimes that judgment is temporal, sometimes the judgment is everlasting, such as it is for those that die outside of Christ.
But the modern jihad could be far more limited if those involved were being spoken to by God.
The relevance?
Have I mentioned kittens? You used this before, and it is no more relevant to the issues discussed no than it was before.
Once again, I like kittens, though I prefer they do not have fleas and that they belong to someone else. Also...my dog is not fond of them, and I am rather fond of my dog.
And you err in equating those that commit such atrocities to the faith which the word of God generates in the heart of man.
And again, a fitting punishment for the crimne committed: castration.
Bet we would see a radical decline in child molestation, and if this country had the safety of children truly in view, they would implement such measures.
I agree.
So it is best to learn of Him that has given to man the knowledge needed to ensure that the One True God is the One that is worshipped.
You have already made this clear...
And yet you have yet to respond to the fact that, as you admitted, you are in reliance to faith in man. If you stopped long enough to actually consider the irony and hypocrisy of your religion...you might actually question the basis of your faith.
Which is ever changing and in reliance on other men to tell you what it is you will believe today.
God bless.
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You mean it takes people years to acknowledge they are unbelievers.
Another aspect of false religion is a works-based theology.
Your batting a thousand, Soulgazer.
God bless.
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Human reasoning.
Founded on horrible interpretive skills.
How very unscientific of you, my friend.
God bless.
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Soulgazer
Christian Gnostic
My ancestors would have just nailed their balls to a stump and kicked 'em over backward.
You don't believe that man can be directly taught by God?
Let's see if we can match some of this up in a way that is understandable. Tim has done a great job in explaining his position, and if you believe in that type of thing, it should be adequate.
Teaching children that God will torture people eternally is child abuse. period. Not just on the basis of it being true or untrue, but it can cause severe neurosis and cause nearly as much damage as sexual abuse.
I am neither conservative nor liberal. I am a Christian Gnostic; I believe in the maximum amount of liberty possible for the understanding and love of the True God to flourish---you can't force it, and it does not come by study, but when the gnosis of God arrives neither can you deny it. It can't thrive in a theocracy or in forms of governments where questions are discouraged. To be as a little child means to keep asking "why?" and "how come?"
You should be able to understand a few things about God. God is love. Anything unloving attributed to Him is simply untrue. Those ignorant of God will say that God's ways are not our ways.....what they don't understand is how true that is. God's way is Love. Human's way is to avoid love in any way they can, even by assigning qualities to God that are unloving, so that they can rationalize their way out of it on the basis of faith.
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How this question arises from anything I have said I cannot fathom, but, to answer your question...of course.
But, I do not believe that God will teach contrary to that which He has already stated. There is a big difference there.
And we see a harmony throughout scripture which validates His word further. Viewing God as two differents Gods in the Old compared to the New is only accomplished through lack of study. He is One throughout scripture.
And it is promised to us that God will teach us, and that He will lead us into all truth. But, He cannot deny Himself so for one to teach all scripture is pseude-pigrapha runs contrary to what He has already said.
And when He does teach us it will always be inharmony with what He has taught us before, hence claims of direct revelation of new revelation are found to be false. Always we can see points where the "new revelation" teaches a different god and a different salvation.
Then comes the argument, "According to your interpretation." Well, the argument is weak, because scripture is not something that can mean this to this person, and that to another. While we may find several applications for the same teaching, we do not, however, find that the God of scripture is the god taught by so many groups. Because they all differ in significant ways. If the god one chooses to embrace and teach can be seen to differ from the Living God of scripture, then it is time to get back to the books.
THE books, lol.
God bless.
God bless.
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Well, this is a new trend, going back to edit.
As I said before, it might be a good idea to consider what you say before you say it, then the need to constantly edit will not arise. This shows, I'm afraid, a tendency to respond without due consideration.
As far as the first statment goes, I would bet this was an effective punishment.
In your opinion Tim has done a great job explaining, but in my opinion he has not. I have, though, given detailed response as to why I think it was not such a good job. Exercise a little objective critical analysis of the discussion, and tell me that I have also been responded to with detailed response.
And what you are saying here is, "It's okay for people to simply believe what they want."
That is why we have murderers and child molestors, because they do not recognize an authority above their own.
No, actually, there is a big difference between judgment and child abuse. For one thing, nothing is ever said about children being cast into outer darkness, everlasting punishment, or the Lake of fire.
Nothing.
If your statment is true, then we can also say that putting murderers in proison is also child abuse.
It also makes the whole of mankind "children of God," which is simply not true. Of course, if one is making up their religion as they go and does not recognize what God has revealed to man, this error would be expected. And it is again a secular humanistic approach to religion, not a Christian Doctrine.
Well, I don't think you want to get me started on my views about the garbage psycho-babble that wants to alleviate responsibility from...everyone.
And that is what this is.
Teaching final judgment to children does not cause mental impairment, but helps people avoid it. It is a simple principle, Soulgazer: you are not the determiner of right and wrong...God is. If you do wrong, you will be punished. If you do that which is right, you will be rewarded.
And psycho-babble has helped to make America the nation she is today. There is no fear of authority anymore.
You have both conservative as well as liberal aspects in your beliefs, Soulgazer.
And answer this: do you not find yourself contradictary by first saying that you have arrived at your conclusions due to your education and also saying it does not come by study and that it arrives of it's own accord?
But you, Soulgazer, have to determine what "unloving" means.
Me, I see God's love available to every man, woman and child...none are excluded.
But, I do not take on a caricature of God by denying His Holy nature, and the fact that even among parents on this earth, not to discipline a child is the worst form of hatred one can show that child...all in the name of love.
We all know the difference between a well behaved child and a spoile brat, now don't we.
Because if you do not teach a child right and wrong, and discipline the child, then the chances are that when he gets into society, among his neighbors, he will himself determine that perhaps society is wrong, and he is justified in his actions.
And just as man knows that crime is to be punished, even so we caricaturize God by thinking that He will not Himself punish sin.
Sometimes, Soulgazer...ignorance truly is bliss.
We have to envy children for their childlike faith, and their being closer to man's original state, that of not experiencing, having full knowledge of good and evil.
The natural man has a form of love, and it cannot all be condemned. It is possible for the natural man to love others and be kind. That is one mistake many make in speaking to atheists, assuming that they are despicable, when in fact there are some pretty decent atheists out there.
On a human perspective, that is.
But when we copmpare them, and ourselves, to God, we find a chasm separating us. And until one can understand the difference between God and man, he will forever make comparison between that which God has done, what He is doing, and what He will do.
And no such comparison exists, except in man's imagination.
Now, I will have to excuse myself, Soulgazer, as I have grass to cut, lol.
God bless.
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Phantasman
Newbie
The understanding is futile. The Bible is a box where God lives and the minds of the people who follow it is a box where where he is perceived. Until one thinks outside that box and "seeks" knowledge, one cannot "find" it. I posted this on one of Pilgrims threads and was told to post it here:
Luke did not travel with Jesus and so may not have even heard such a parable. He wasn't authoring even for any one who traveled with Jesus, as far as I know. He was sent a copy of Mark (65-80AD) which he later copied after 80AD (from what scholars agree). He was only mentioned as a doctor who was Pauls friend and authored Luke and Acts.
The whole Hades thing relies a lot on Lukes addition tied in with Johns vision, that when linked properly, scares the hell out of people and shows a loving God as a cruel torturous entity. Punishment does exist, as Jesus explains. But God does not gain satisfaction in torture and torment. His punishment is swift.
Though the question is on Luke 16, it is a viable debate. Like the girl, people are being controlled by church to fear Gods wrath, and the church uses God as a weapon rather than a way of a better life. So many men have jumped on this bandwagon and have profited from it with power and wealth, that one wonders how we have survived so long. Authors have made billions of dollars on their books, preachers and churches trillions of dollars, many leading lives of wealth just by being associated with the church. The printed Bible has made many wealthy. Remember the Bible salesmen?
The church is so strong now, when someone has a problem, they run to the church. Or the pastor. Or the Bible. Therein is where they are taught to go so that they can help them reach God. What a shame. They have broken the first and greatest commandment. Because we seek God first, then these things may become witness, or they may not. God may not want me to go to that church or listen to that pastor. And once you get knowledge from the Holy Spirit, he teaches you the things to read as well, and what is truth, and what is not.
You have things backwards.
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Hello Phantasman, first I will ask you...
Who are addressing when you say this?
Secondly, I can see that if your first appeal is to someone that rejects scripture, then I have to say I am disappointed.
Nevertheless, I will be happy to discuss this with you. I do appreciate you transferring this to this thread, also. It will help to keep the other from being derailed, as most of these threads are.
This particular thread seems to be the longest running thread, so it seems good to me to focus attention on Hell here.
There is much in the above statement that is, in my view, in error, but the primary error is to ascribe Christianity to Christendom. Just because something is called Christianity, does not mean it is. And the only way to understand Christianity, is to read about it in scripture, and to be taught of God in our lives concering our application.
It seems that you question the inspiration of Luke. Is that right?
I will leave you with that question for now, as I need to get going, but if you would like to fill in for those that have been involved in this discussion (in any thread) please feel free to do so.
God bless.
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Phantasman
Newbie
Thank you for your keen observation. As one who has traveled this road for many decades, my beliefs don't come lightly. I am one who realizes that each person searching for God does so as they feel what is right for them regardless of what others may feel is right for themselves. It is why God gives us free will to choose.
I take no offense when someone tells me I am in error. I may be. Of course, I have never heard anyone here ever say those three words, yet there are hundreds of different opinions, where I'm sure all cannot be correct.
All I do is seek knowledge in all places and do not limit my search. I am sure I have upset some people, but usually the closed minded.
On the subject of this thread, it's a waste of time. It cannot be proved or disproved. It is a subject one can debate until the end of time (or until one dies) and never be resolved, hence the longevity of the thread. And lastly, it is not important. If one wants to sin, sin. If one wants to follow God, follow.
The church uses the hell concept as a carrot and stick for control of it's members. It is used by Christians to save sinners. It is a tool more than a place. It is a parable (since we do not understand spiritual things) of what punishment of sin from God is for the devil and his angels (Bible). Let's throw a few men in there while we're at it.
I believe there is spiritual punishment as I believe there is spiritual salvation. But because we cannot understand spirituality, fire, as well as streets of gold, are parables of description and not literal.
But we all have our own way of believing, our own knowledge. Prayer works best for me while I gather what I take in.
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Soulgazer
Christian Gnostic
Or on the other hand, it could show the results of a stroke that cut my brain power in half.
No repeat offenders.
If I thought it was okay for people to believe what they want, I wouldn't be pointing out how very close to blaspheming the Holy Spirit people are when they ascribe evil to God.
Oh, they recognize there is an authority above them. That is why they try to hide their deeds.
Simple Tribalism---they can't be with us, they're different!
No, this is you refusing responsibility for the welfare of others by pushing it off onto your religion. Frightening children with visions of a boogeyman God is doing both the child and God a disservice. You are probably too intelligent to do it yourself, but fifty percent of the world is below average. Calling it "psycho-babble" is just another way of screaming "I don't want to know the truth----leave me alone!" Children are being harmed. You will know a tree by it's fruit.
Thomas Paine wrote that people should not be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people. Men who do not question authority are no longer free men.
People say "you aren't the determiner of right and wrong" when they know they are wrong. Truth speaks to truth. Yes, we are the determiners of right and wrong. Otherwise we don't have either Sophia or the Holy Spirit, and we are still apes instead of men. Ask any atheist if it's ok to stick pins in a babies eyes; then duck.
That is a simple inference on your part. My testimony is my own, and inappropriate for this thread.
Now you are being willfully in denial of the truth
Agreed
That is precisely what you have done.
so, next time your child is disobedient, are you going to set him on fire? Of course not. Neither will God.
Punish? Oh yes. The people that ascribe evil to God, the murderers, merchants and slavers are already judged, have not been given life, and will not see heaven.
Yes it is. I have not been blissfully ignorant in years. Know what ignorance is also? The mother of all evil. Jesus in the story of the Good Samaritan, held up one whom everyone thought was the lowest of the low(modern atheist) as an example of what God expects from people. (Love)
There are no Atheists, only men who believe they are Atheists. There are no Christians, only men who believe they are Christians.
It's not comparison to know the truth. God is Love. God does not Torture. Humans torture, because humans are unloving. Because Humans do not believe that God is love, they ascribe evil to God. The chasm exits because you wish it to exist; stop wishing for it and it will go away.
I could tell you this, but since you seem to value ancient writings:
"It is not possible for anyone to see anything of the things that actually exist unless he becomes like them. This is not the way with man in the world: he sees the sun without being a sun; and he sees the heaven and the earth and all other things, but he is not these things. This is quite in keeping with the truth. But you saw something of that place, and you became those things. You saw the Spirit, you became spirit. You saw Christ, you became Christ. You saw the Father, you shall become Father. So in this place you see everything and do not see yourself, but in that place you do see yourself - and what you see you shall become. "~Philip
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Very sorry to hear of this unfortunate event in your life, Soulgazer, really.
Which would be more easily accomplished if penalties were stiffer, and fewer were lawyered out of punishment.
And again you have to determine what evil is.
For you, fitting judgment according to the crime is...evil.
For me, there is no crime worse than treading under foot the Son of God.
And that God gives opportunity to men is seen in the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, Who seeks to convict man of his sin and lead him to repentance. Which, if a man reject, he cannot be forgiven...he will die in his rebellion and be judged with everlasting separation.
No, Soulgazer, they hide their deeds so they can continue to commit them. They are right, society is wrong. It is no different than believers in muslim countries: they hide their actions because their society deems them wrong. Not because the believers themselves think they are wrong.
If you think me religious, so be it, however, again your reasoning is...unreasonable.
Criminals are told, "It's not your fault, mommy and daddy are responsible because they didn't raise you properly."
There is NO justification for crimes such as we are speaking about. We have lists of child molestors released back into society. Agiain, if penalties fit the crime, such lists would not exist.
Let me tell you some other things I scare children with: hot stoves; traffic; people that snatch children; drowning; people that lead children into drug use...
The list could be quite extensive, but I think you get the point. Having a belief that a Just God will punish sin and teaching them that the ultimate consequence of rebellion against God is eternal separation is no more scaring them than common sense teaching about what can happen in this evil world.
You say I am in a fantasy world, my friend, but the truth is...I understand the nature of evil, and it is found in the heart of man. This is a basic bible precept.
You cannot do God a disservice by teaching that which He teaches.
It is because I recognize action and consequence as well as right and wrong that I seek to warn every man.
Faith is not an intelligence issue, Soulgazer, it is a heart issue. You boasted of your education and I said then that faith is not something we buy, but is a result of the Lord's intervention. One can be poor and not so bright and still come into relationship with God.
I am living proof of that.
No it more like calling a horse a horse, and a dog...a dog.
Have you yet seen me to back away from any issue raised? Do you think I do not examine the basis of belief of all I talk to? That is what I do. I have been exposed to more concepts, beliefs, "non-beliefs," and...the basis for them, to have made conclusions which cannot be simply dismissed as you try to do.
You won't categorize me, my friend. We have not even gotten to know each other yet, so don't be so hasty in your conclusions.
Yes, and if penalties fit the crime...it would happen far less.
Thank you...liberal philosophy.
Thanks to all who rather than punish crime as it should be allow murderers to once again enter society. Child molestors. Drug dealers. You name it, their are those walking the streets that should not be.
Why is that? Because it would be "torture" to properly punish crime? That is your philosophy, in both secular and theological scenarios.
And if a tree produces evil fruit? Do we prune it?
And this has relevance...how?
Can you tell me that the vote for God at the DNC shows that the current administration has...a fear of the people?
Get real, my friend.
No, we are not. Those that do not think it is wrong to molest children are...WRONG.
THose who think they have the right to end another's life are...WRONG.
Those who think they have a right to create a god that suits them are...WRONG.
In a secular society that elevates animals to be equal to man...is it any wonder?
And in religious circles that elevate man to be equal to God...is it abny wonder?
And that is exactly what all who create their own gods do.
I do not usually seek to offend people, first. Secondly, it is my goal to examine the basis of the faith, whether they are Christian, religious, or atheist...before I make conclusions. This is how science works also, Soulgazer: conclusions are the result of analysis. And where we differ when it comes discussion, there is no room for experimentation.
Lastly, I do not make the mistake of categorizing people, because even though they go by a name, people are as individual as snowflakes.
Okay, I will have to finish this later.
God bless.
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No, it is a reasonable conclusion drawn from your own words.
I can respect that, Soulgazer, but understand that in your posts you reveal aspects of your testimony in both implicit as well as explicit manner.
How is it that my saying you determine what "unloving" means is wilfull denial of truth?
What is denied is that people have different notions as to what unloving means.
Is the earthly judge "unloving" when he sentences a murderer to death? In your view, perhaps, because you oppose the death penalty. In my view, justice is served, and love has nothing to do with it.
God's love is available, yet, you imagine God must ignore justice because He is love. Is it love to allow a child to do what he wants? Were you unloving by disciplining your son? Shall we get into that again?
You have to stoop to such tactics to carry on the discussion and attempt to make a point? No point is made, my friend. This is like me saying, "The next time your child is disobedient, threaten him with an imaginary stick."
Your mistake is that you blur concepts, leaving a realistic representation of the issue at hand. Those punished are not children, they are not God's children, and God does not punish man without giving him every opportunity to repent.
He gives man the opportunity...not to be judged.
So to equate the Lake of Fire to a child (or kittens, which an appeal to man's emotions...not reason) being set on fire is straight out of Psyco-Babble land. Are there dragons and unicorns and candy canes in your world, my friend?
And again we get back to what is evil, and what is not. You have on your side what I consider to be a poor translation in some cases, one of the few I see in the King James. Couple that with man's definitions and you have a recipe for misunderstanding.
It is true that those that are not born again do not have life. Unless they are born again, they will continue in the state of destruction they are born in. I have tried many times to get this biblical concept across, but it seems that some cannot quite grasp it.
And I would agree for the most part that they are already judged, but just as the man on death row, sentence has not been carried out.
Now the supreme difference between those that are judge here, like the man on death row, and those that are under condemnation due to sin is this: they can still, while they yet live...escape the sentencing.
That is where God's love is seen. Only He can do that.
If an earthly judge sentenced a man to death, and then went to the prison and freed him of his own accord, the judge would likely also go to jail.
But God takes it one step further: He takes the sentence Himself, dying in our place.
And there is no earthly equivalent for that, because we cannot properly equate sins with SIN...which separates man from God.
The judge could indeed die in the place of the convict, but it would not make the convict free from guilt, and the convict would eventually die himself. Whereas, Christ, God manifest in the flesh, died in our place, whereby we receive the LIFE He came to bring, never again to die, never again to be held accountable for our SIN. Sins, yes, but not SIN.
So children by nature are...evil.
Think about what you are saying, my friend.
Wrong. Not everyone, Soulgazer, as the parable explicitly shows on that is not found to have disregard for the injured man.
So your point is destroyed because you did not reach conclusions based upon the details, but simply sought to make the account fit your pattern of reason.
If you examined many of your conclusions, you will find you do this quite often.
Watson would be disappointed.
I agree with this statement, though I do believe man can sear the conscious and make himself believe that which he has taught himself and allowed man to teach him.
But you are right...all have an internal witness of God.
Leaninng into a mystical view here. So man creates reality through thought?
One is not a Christian because they think they are any more than one is a Marine because they think they are. Lets stick to facts, Soulgazer.
Does not change that which scripture teaches. Which is why you avoid discussion of scripture itself. Your understanding of my basis is non-existant due to your unfamiliarity with my basis. Until you examine that basis all you can offer in the discussion is...opinion, based upon your own beliefs. And that is why discussion is so frivolous 99% of the time: failure to objectively analyze the basis of another's faith, whatever his faith may lie in. It is typical, though.
Soulgazer, when man is in Christ he can at best partake of something that is not rightfully his.
No amount of desire is going to make man deity, nor will it bring man to a state where he can say, "Move over, God...there are two of us now."
I try to keep things realistic. I recognize the weaknesses still undergone due to the unredeemed flesh I yet abide in. I do not elevate myself to a god-like state, as some do.
There is One God, and yes, I see Him in Three Persons. To expalin that, consider that God in His glory is the Father. When God interacts directly with man (such as seen in the Garden and the Plains of Mamre), that is the Son; when God interacts with man in ministering to his spirit He does so in Spirit, thus we cal HIM the Holy Spirit.
I don't claim to have full understanding, but, simply seek to work within the understanding He has afforded me. And that understanding does not allow for illusions of grandeur, but rather, show me how different from Holy God I am. I will be conformed to His image in this life, of that I am confident, as He is the Everlasting Father that better than anyone knows how to properly raise His children (and He will not impose on us something He is not willing or able to do). I will be like Him in the eternal state in many ways, but I will still worship Him, like everyone else there...as the One True Living God.
This is supposed to mean something in relation to our discussion?
You would have to give comment that your point be more clear, as this could be discussed on a number of fronts, and unfortunatel, I have to get going.
I am enjoying the discussion, though, Soulgazer.
God bless.
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