Let's talk about fat.

[Inkachu]

Just sayin' that people who put forth the idea that men and women's bodies work the same way are full of bunk I've seen some of that thinking in this thread

 

[mkgal1]

And you are also aware that labs have not been testing drugs on female cells, correct? http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/15/h...in-early-studies.html?src=me&ref=general&_r=0

Off topic but still valid.

I think that's very much on topic. To me....that just demonstrates that studies are often to prove the hypothesis people had come up with, but neglecting to look at *all* the data (leaving us with gaps).

 

[DZoolander]

How we as a nation deal with weight issues is just completely dysfunctional, IMHO, and actually serves as one of the primary reasons why people are so unsuccessful at losing weight.

For all the bemoaning people do about how fat people are treated - the truth of the matter is that the "fat acceptance" people have won the war...at least on a very superficial level. You cannot even make the slightest suggestion that someone ought to lose weight (even a bed ridden morbidly obese person) without couching your observation with a bunch of caveats that basically disembowels the entire statement.

...and people just aren't honest with each other.

For example - I knew a guy that was like 450 lbs. Poor schmo was a social pariah on most levels...women wouldn't go out with him...etc. Sure he had his friends, but what real consolation is that when you know that every relationship in your life is predestined to be nothing but platonic?

So finally this poor guy at around 35 or so decided he wanted to finally lose his virginity - and he went off to the only place he could - some brothel out in Vegas. Well, without meaning to get too much into detail, things didn't work cuz he was nervous (I guess), the girl tried too hard out of frustration (I guess), and ended up injuring the guy. He spent the next day in the hospital getting some things attended to.

That guy's entire situation was a consequence of his weight... He was a virgin because of his weight. He was in the hospital as a consequence of his weight. Everyone knew it - but nobody would say anything to him. Instead - my friends offered him platitudes about how people were "so superficial" and "someday he'd find someone that recognized his inner beauty" blah blah. Ya know - they said all the things that we accept that we're supposed to say - even though we know it ain't in the slightest bit true.

I remember talking to one of my other buddies right after the hospital incident and asking "Do you really believe the nonsense that's spilling out of your mouth about how he'll find someone, someday, that looks past it?" His response was "Maybe he'll find a fat girl" (in other words - someone that's in no place to judge and therefore will settle). Then I asked "So you don't believe it, and you're not being honest?"

"It's not my job to be honest with him. It's my job to make him feel better."

...and that - I think - is the underlying problem. NOBODY is honest. Rather - everyone walks around playing these weird games about trying to obfuscate the issue in order to be "nice" - because not being "nice" is the ultimate sin.

As a result - we conflate things together that ought not be conflated. We see things like morbidly obese people on talk shows sharing a stage with anorexics - both bemoaning how "society expects body perfection" and that expectation being the cause of their problems. We allow people to find commonality and bonds where there really is no similarity whatsoever and no common ground should be found.

An anorexic has a far different psychological issue going on (most likely) than some morbidly obese person. To allow them to lump themselves together does neither of them any true service - and IMHO only serves to harm them both.

Then we get things like how the word "overweight" is used. You get the silly girl on some reality show who wants to be a model obsessing over 3 lbs - and you allow the word "overweight" to be applied to her... Then you get the 700 lb bedsore individual who hasn't been able to lift him/herself out of bed for the past year - and the same "overweight" label gets weirdly applied to them. A level of haze and ambiguity is introduced into the mix that messes everyone up IMHO.

The person with 5 lbs to lose isn't overweight - and if her greatest regret in life will be that she wasn't thin enough to get on the cover of Vogue - maybe she has some misplaced priorities. Despite the rejection from Vogue - most likely she is the envy of the rest of society - and suffers no consequence socially from being "overweight". The 700 lb gangrenous person - ehhh - not the same thing.

So - no - it doesn't do anyone any favors to have that ambiguity either, IMHO.

Then - you get into the aspects of how people sabotage each other. Without a doubt - the greatest motivator in my opinion is the fact that socially being obese (and I'm saying obese - not the model who can't get onto Vogue kind of "overweight") is horrible. It hurts those people. But instead of allowing people to own that hurt and use it as an impetus to change...everyone lobbies against it.

"Don't do it for anyone else... Only do it if it makes you happy..." Well, maybe, social acceptance will bring people happiness? Maybe not having every relationship you have be defined by your weight might make them happy? Maybe some potential for something else...finally...might make them happy? But no - can't say that. Rather - we disembowel the only thing with any real teeth in it - and tell them it's not a worthwhile goal. We knowingly launch them into a battle, that we aren't engaging in ourselves, that we know they're not gonna win.

If we *do* want to suggest that maybe they should lose weight - then we couch it around the idea of health. Health...schmealth. Odds are if they're really fat, they're not really looking to go out and run a marathon or something. If they get winded walking up the stairs - they can just take the elevator. Suddenly they feel "healthy" again. We have a very distorted perspective of what "healthy" means inside of our society - so to lob it into that court just removes any teeth from it, I think.

So - yeah - it's a pretty messed up situation IMHO for fat people. Their friends mis-represent the world to them, tell them that the only thing that might motivate them is actually "selling out", send them off to fight battles we know they're not going to win (because it makes us feel good about ourselves to do so), and confuse them with vague nonsense about the concept of being "fat" in and of itself.

 

[bhsmte]

Just sayin' that people who put forth the idea that men and women's bodies work the same way are full of bunk I've seen some of that thinking in this thread

The main differences between men and women is driven by two things; more lean tissue in males and hormonal differences.

The basic physiology of how we metabolize food and how the body adapts to physical activity, are basically the same.

 

[akmom]

I don't know if there's value in calling it like it is. People know. They don't need to hear it to be motivated. And when you're talking about the morbidly obese, I think there might be a point of no return. Weight loss is such a gradual process. If you're talking about someone who has literally hundreds of pounds to lose, and likely a very limited life expectancy due to it, is weight loss practical any more? I don't know. They don't even have the mobility to burn calories in a normal exercise routine, not to mention overcoming the original factors that got them there. That's an enormous task. Maybe it really is best to make the best of it at some point, and cope with the condition.

 

[Heinzzz]

I don't know if there's value in calling it like it is. People know. They don't need to hear it to be motivated. And when you're talking about the morbidly obese, I think there might be a point of no return. Weight loss is such a gradual process. If you're talking about someone who has literally hundreds of pounds to lose, and likely a very limited life expectancy due to it, is weight loss practical any more? I don't know. They don't even have the mobility to burn calories in a normal exercise routine, not to mention overcoming the original factors that got them there. That's an enormous task. Maybe it really is best to make the best of it at some point, and cope with the condition.

In other words, give up and just suffer a whole host of medical problems and die early because it is the most "practical" option?

If someone is suffering serious medical problems and shortened life span due to their weight - there has to be options, even if it means surgery. Then some changes in lifestyle and eating habits.

 

[LilLamb219]

The only weight gain that I've seen mentioned as "normal" in this thread is what's typically seen (even a generation or two ago) as people age and metabolisms and hormones go through their normal changes. NO one (that I've read) has said that gaining 100 lbs or exploding into morbid obesity is normal. What IS normal is gaining a handful of pounds, losing some muscle mass, getting a bit "flabby" as you get into your golden years, etc. That's nothing to freak out over or panic about. It's utterly, absolutely normal and OK. If someone wants to fight it with diet and exercise, more power to them. If someone else doesn't want to fight it, they aren't lazy or self destructive, they're just a normal person going through the normal changes of aging. And no one here has said that there's "not much you can do" about weight gain. A few people have mentioned medical conditions that can cause weight gain and make it very hard to lose the weight, but nobody has said "you're going to get very fat when you get old, and there's nothing you can do".

This quote is from a few pages back but it's so true!

I had an eating disorder in my teens and was struggling to get away from it when my husband and I married. I also have OCD.

Now I'm 47 and no longer have those food controlling/body controlling obsessive thoughts. I'm happy with how I look and who I am. I would never want to return to those days of my youth and all that misery just to have a better looking body. All that could end in an instant. I enjoy my life.

I love going for walks and I do about 3 miles a day. I used to be a cyclist for the past few years but we've moved and I haven't found an appropriate place to ride that is safe for me.

I also know about eating healthy and being mindful of what I put in my body. But as I get older I HAVE noticed changes. Changes in my energy level after an accident I had with my bike and also changes in my body's tolerance to activity (I get sore faster and it hurts longer).

Now with that being said, I also agree that we are responsible for our choices and there are people who make the wrong food choices and the choice to not have any physical activity. That will affect their weight of course and do they have a right to moan about how much weight they've gained because of it? Well, probably not. We don't know the entire picture of their lives, but we ARE responsible for a small portion of what happens to us. Those people would most likely NOT be obese or extremely overweight to begin with if they gained it because of food/exercise choices.

To expect that the body will be the same from the 20s throughout an entire lifetime is not realistic.

 

[Annessa3]

@ Zoo: 'people just aren't honest with each other'

Perhaps I am taking your post past where you meant it, but here are my thoughts. I posted some earlier.

I'm urging all of us Christians to pull a WWJD. To be less judgmental.

Yes, you can see a person is fat, obese, not aesthetically pleasing to Your Eyes. I state that does NOT give you the right or responsibility to shame them with public words or judge them in your heart. Your responsibility is to love that person as Christ loves you.

And if you (the collective you) are looking at folks all day and determining whether they are physically sexually attractive, you have way bigger problems than fussing over male/female metabolism questions.

when you see this guy:


do you cringe? Judge? Or is it OK because his outward appearence isn't 'his' fault? What if he got burned cooking meth to sell to your kids, then would you feel differently about his outward appearance?

Do I need to check and see if you've read any articles about this latest kid shooting other kids in Santa Barbara? Outwardly, he looked OK. But what a seething mess of rage he was because he wasn't getting what he thought he was entitled to.

Your daily walk with Jesus, how you seek Him and how you reflect Him... I would like to see much more of that on these forums.

 

[DZoolander]

That's not what I'm talking about, actually.

For example with my friend that was 450 lbs. When he came to his friends (which people like that do often) to complain about how much it sucked socially to be obese (meaning he couldn't get dates, he received no amorous attention from girls, etc) - maybe instead of offering platitudes about "the one that will look past it" - better advice would have been:

"Ya know - so long as you remain obese like that it will be a huge impediment in your life. That, in and of itself, will stymie you throughout your life. That's how people react to the obese...and it ain't going to change...and it isn't wrong or shallow. Maybe you should own the fact that you hate it - and use that as your impetus to change."

That's not publicly shaming someone, etc. That's being forthright and helpful if their long term happiness is your goal.

 

[akmom]

Bariatric surgery has a long-term success rate of less than 5%.

 

[DZoolander]

Yep, because you can just re-stretch your stomach back out to the proportions you were eating before.

 

[ValleyGal]

People who are obese already know they are obese and how it affects their life. They don't need to be reminded because that could just add to their struggle - iow, they feel lousy about themselves, go eat more to self-soothe, and that compounds the problem. What obese people need is love, and lots of it.

When I was at my heaviest, every single day my dad would be telling me that I was too fat to be loved, too fat for any employer to want to hire, too fat to own a business because no one likes to do business with a fat person. Too fat for love.... I just can't tell you how painful that was. I already knew how my weight was affecting my life....did he think I was stupid? (well, yes, but that's beside the point)

What would have been helpful is a friend to come alongside, to not offer platitudes, but to say, let's go for a walk a couple times a week. If that means starting with a circle around the block, then that's what we'll do. Then commit. I needed some friends in my life - not the kind who would say "let's go out for dinner" all the time, but the kind who would say "come to my house and let's have dinner here" because it's healthier.

As it was, I convinced my own self to change my life....but it was likely successful because of the severe stress I was having at the time. It hurt that people "cared" enough to point out my fat, but no one cared enough to walk with me a couple of times a week or do anything helpful to get me through. On the plus side (no pun intended!), I absolutely knew who my friends were....

 

[Annessa3]

amen to what VG just said.

do you really think fat people don't know they're fat? With folks like y'all pointing it out in subtle and non-subtle ways 24/7.

Fat does not equal stupid.

 

[seeingeyes]

Bariatric surgery has a long-term success rate of less than 5%.

Laparoscopic Roux-en-Y gastric bypass is considered by many to be the gold standard bariatric operation and is the most commonly performed bariatric operation in the United States. Although oversimplified, the mechanism of action is generally considered threefold: a restriction in food intake, selective malabsorption, and the development of dumping syndrome, limiting patients’ consumption of triggering foods (e.g. simple sugars). Long-term follow-up data are available, in some cases up to nearly two decades. Weight loss averages 65% for most patients with over 85% of patients losing and maintaining 50% initial excess weight loss. Contemporary series have documented mortality rates of approximately 0.1% and serious early complication rates of 5%. Long-term issues with fat malabsorption, protein-energy malnutrition and micronutrient deficiencies are relatively uncommon and can usually be managed with oral supplementation. Reoperations are infrequently needed for failures or complications. Despite the high likelihood of success both in weight loss and correction of obesity-related medical conditions, the operation requires advanced laparoscopic surgical skills with a learning curve as long as 100 cases, and a 10-15% long-term failure rate.

Quick fix or long-term cure? Pros and cons of bariatric surgery

 

[DZoolander]

No - but that's not what we're talking about.

We're not talking about letting people come to their own realizations. We're talking about telling them that their realizations aren't true and willfully lying to them about what they're facing - because that's what the platitudes are. One is passive - one is active.

There's a big difference between the two, IMHO.

 

[Annessa3]

but what I wanna talk about is not your need to speak the truth, but rather whether you have any right to do so unless asked for the naked truth.

and re bariatric surgery: been there, done that. It is Not the end all cure for obesity. It did unable me to lose 180lbs, but I am still fat by your standards.

 

[ValleyGal]

Are you saying that heavy people can't or don't find love? Yes, their options are more limited, but since the number of American people who are heavy is more than50%, I'd say chances are increasing, since there is less judgement, because more people are struggling with weight issues now. The lie is that they will never find anyone. The lie is that they can't be loved. The lie is that no one wants to be around them, hire them, etc. The lie is that they don't belong in society.

The truth: you matter to me no matter how heavy you are. You are loved and accepted by God. You are beautiful, even if you are wounded (aren't we all?). You are worth being friends with, worth spending time with, worth hiring, worth being loved. You matter to me enough that I will walk with you every day or pick you up and take you to the pool so we can exercise together. I care about you not to judge you, but also enough encourage you if you choose to address your physical issues.

It is not a platitude to tell a heavy person that they are worthy of love, and that the right person will love them in spite of their size. It is entirely true. In fact, there is even a whole website devoted to "big, beautiful women" and the men who are seeking them for romance. There might be one for men, too, but I don't know.

 

[ValleyGal]

Wow, Annessa! That's amazing! Congratulations on your loss! No matter what your size now, you probably feel and look great! Even with surgery, it takes a lot of work. Look how far you've come!

 

[Annessa3]

thanks VG, and public kudos and applause for your notes above.
Look great? uh no. Had you been carrying around an extra person all your life, once in your 50's, the skin doesn't magically retract. It would take multiple more surgeries for that. Other than vanity, I don't see a need for those more surgeries. ("oh pretty please put me under the anesthesia and knife and carve me up so someone thinks I'm attractive." ) NOT.

Feel better; yes. no more diabetes, or high blood pressure. And those were the reasons I did the surgery. And the ability to exercise afterward.

Now all you folks who just insist you're better people because you're not fat: pick up your spouse. Put them on your back. Now go do your chores. Drive, walk, clean, chase children. Now tell me who is working harder.

 

[DZoolander]

I can't imagine anything more sad than someone who goes through this life lonely and dejected - all the while thinking "But at least God loves me". God loves you, yes, but there's definitely something to be said for human companionship as well.

...and it's not going to be PC to say this...but I always wonder about BBW chasing people. I mean - I know a few BBWs and they have their boyfriends who claim to be all into bigger women...but...every time they fight...what's the first thing the guy starts slamming them with? Their weight.

Now, I happen to like brunettes and redheads. I can't imagine arguing with my g/f or wife or whatever - and launching into some tirade about how she was a red-headed this or that...or a brunette this or that. Why? Because that's what I like.

If they TRULY are into big women - you'd think that commenting on their weight would be about as nonsensical as me ragging on someone for having brown hair. So, even in those situations, many times it's a huge defining factor...and I'd argue that someone would be better off not contending with those issues.

It's not a platitude to tell someone that they're worthy of love - but it is fundamentally dishonest to tell them that the rejections they experience are somehow the shortcomings of the other person or are the result of something "bad". That puts them at odds with society in a way they cannot fix and cannot win.