Let's settle this "Islam is terrorism" nonsense once and for all

[Ramona]

Without getting too heated, I'd like to address a few things asserted by those who call Islam a terroristic religion.

Before I start, I am not a Muslimah and have no desire to become one. As such, I have no particular devotion to Islam. I am an "infidel" and fully intend on staying that way. Still, I'm sick of this mindset being propagated by websites like Prophet of Doom and Religion of Peace. I'm sick of the redundant lies perpetrated by pundits such as Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh.

Most of all, I'm tired of everyday folks taking these people at their words and coming to the conclusion that Islam is terrorism. Anyone can take verses that promote violence out of context. Here, I'll do it right now with the Bible (ESV):

Joshua 6:21
Then they devoted all in the city to destruction, both men and women, young and old, oxen, sheep, and donkeys, with the edge of the sword.

Exodus 12:27-30
At midnight the Lord struck down all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who sat on his throne to the firstborn of the captive who was in the dungeon, and all the firstborn of the livestock. And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he and all his servants and all the Egyptians. And there was a great cry in Egypt, for there was not a house where someone was not dead.

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]2 Kings 2:23-24 (my personal favorite)
[/FONT]He went up from there to Bethel, and while he was going up on the way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him, saying, “Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!” 24 And he turned around, and when he saw them, he cursed them in the name of the Lord. And two she-bears came out of the woods and tore forty-two of the boys.

I see just as much violence in the Bible as I do in the Koran. Does that make the Bible evil? No. Does it make Christians evil? Certainly not!

So if we don't want to be judged by our own crazy eddies like the KKK, Christian Identity, and Planned Parenthood bombers, then why do we do the same thing to Muslims? It's ugly, demeaning hypocrisy.

I wanna know why people do this. Please tell us. Why?

 

[Rasta]

Because it's the only way they can justify their hypocritical beliefs. So they must attack a straw man to feel good about themselves.

I do hate generalized statements, in general.

Though, how many Buddhists strap a bomb on their chest and murder civilians? It might have something to do with docterine.

 

[*Starlight*]

I totally agree I've also read some Sufi writings, and they all promoted love and peace... total opposite to the common "Islam=terrorism" stereotype. For example, this quote: "The sun never says to the earth, 'You owe me.' Look what happens with a love like that. It lights up the whole sky." (Hafiz)

 

[TheKingOfImmortality]

Make them selves feel there living in a black and white world. Thuse it is easyer to say all muslims are bad insted of some.


However I have seen muslims do the same and try to make it look like all muslims are good everyone els is bad. They both have the same weakness.


Your going to get this crap thrown around all the time. Sadly that attued people have twoards each other has always bin here and will always be here.


In the end there nothing we can do about it....(beside not allowing our selves to fall into it)

 

[Ramona]

In the end there nothing we can do about it....(beside not allowing our selves to fall into it)

Precisely.

 

[Rasta]

Precisely.

Somehow I feel this issue is not settled "once and for all".

The people that need to read this thread probably won't.

Good effort though.

 

[R3quiem]

Very true. In fact, from reading both the Qur'an and the OT, if I had to pick, I'd say the OT seems more violent than the Qur'an. Maybe it's just because it is longer though, to be fair.

There are plenty of violent verses in both of them, and plenty of good as well.

 

[français]

I think both religions have verses that allows one to justify their actions by using their holy books or sunnah/traditions.

There are many pretty bad things in the OT, and many in the qu'ran.

All in all I still think that looking at islamic writings (in particular the hadiths, sirar rasool allah, and the qu'ran) and looking at Jewish/Christian texts (Bible, talmud) I would still have to say that isam is more violent.

Either way, I do agree that the racket about it needs to stop!

 

[PassionFruit]

Because Friction, people don't want to learn, I guess it's just easier to label people for the actions that a minority does. When you do that, you don't have to learn about them as people. Yes, the OT is pretty violent, that doesn't make all Christians violent. The same goes for Muslims.

Rasta is correct, this probably won't be settled once and for all. Most likely it's those who are so bent on believing there religion is the right one, aren't going to read this thread. And have to convince everyone else that their religion is true. You know, if that mindset would go away, I think the world will be much more peaceful.

 

[Rasta]

Because Friction, people don't want to learn, I guess it's just easier to label people for the actions that a minority does. When you do that, you don't have to learn about them as people. Yes, the OT is pretty violent, that doesn't make all Christians violent. The same goes for Muslims.

Rasta is correct, this probably won't be settled once and for all. Most likely it's those who are so bent on believing there religion is the right one, aren't going to read this thread. And have to convince everyone else that their religion is true. You know, if that mindset would go away, I think the world will be much more peaceful.

You know, if that mindset would go away, I think the world will be much more peaceful.

Exponetially more so. I agree 100%.

 

[Ramona]

I know it won't be once and for all, I was just livid when I wrote the OP.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

So if we don't want to be judged by our own crazy eddies like the KKK, Christian Identity, and Planned Parenthood bombers, then why do we do the same thing to Muslims? It's ugly, demeaning hypocrisy.

I agree. In fact my mom's doctor and 1 of her staff are Muslims.

The only thing I disagree with Islam is their Version of Jesus in the Koran. Other than that, I say live and let live.

Matthew 24:3 He is yet sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples toward-came to Him according to own, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and what the Sign of the Thy parousiaV <3952>, and of the together-finish/sun-teleiaV <4930> of the Age?'

1 Thessalonians 3:13 Into the stand-fast of ye, the hearts blamebless in together-holiness before the God and Father of us in the Parousia <3952> of the Lord of us, Jesus Christ, with all of the holy-ones of Him.

 

[Secundulus]

To offer the dissenting opinion, its headlines like these that are defining Islam today.

Koran Commentary for Children Published in Egypt Features Incitement to Fight Christians and Jews
http://www.memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD174407

This is not a Quran commentary written by Christians but rather a commentary written recently by Muslim Scholars and currently in use in a Muslim country.

Some Muslims say Islam is a religion of peace. Other Muslims, scholars, say that Islam will fight the Christians and Jews until they are subdued. Since there is no central authority in Islam, why do people automatically believe the first group and discount the second. Are you sure that there is not some wishful thinking involved? Because if Islam really is what a lot of Islamic scholars say it is then we have a real problem!

Here are some excerpts from this book:

"In explaining verse [9:66] - 'O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end' - the book says: 'Allah commanded the believers to wage jihad against the infidels by [fighting them] with the sword, and to wage jihad against the hypocrites by imposing upon them the punishments and constraints mandated for those who violate the commands of Islam..."​

[The book states that] these verses are abrogated by the 'Verse of the Sword,' which descended later, and which says: 'Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the Latter Day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book [i.e. among the Christians and Jews], until they pay the jizya [the Islamic poll tax on non-Muslims] and they are in a state of subjection [9:29].' [According to the book], peace and reconciliation agreements [with Christians and Jews] have been forbidden since this verse was revealed.​

 

[jupiter2]

It's a good point Secundulus, but keep in mind your own statement that there is no central authority. Some Islamic scholars incite violence, others do not. As far as radicalism, let's not forget the crusades. There was plently of justification going around at that time. It's a complex picture today, one that won't be "settled once and for all" (the goal of the OP) unfortunately. To say that we don't stir resentment up against ourselves (Christians/Jews) in contemporary times would reveal that we are oblivious to the consequences of our own actions and biased interpretations of our own beliefs. However, on the other hand, there are obviously opportunist factions in Islam trying to exploit an unstable geopolitical balance for their own gain. The upshot I would say is, that Islam isn't inherently violent, but some of the adherents are.

 

[Secundulus]

The upshot I would say is, that Islam isn't inherently violent, but some of the adherents are.

We can say that not all Muslims follow Islam in violence. I think that the verdict on Islam itself remains out.

But as long as the apparently peaceful Muslims on this site continue preaching dhimmitude on the rest of us, I have serious doubts.

 

[jupiter2]

I know for a fact that the majority of Muslims are not in favor of sharia. For example, as a Christian, I would oppose the establishment of a theocracy unless it was from Jesus Christ himself.

 

[Secundulus]

I know for a fact that the majority of Muslims are not in favor of sharia. For example, as a Christian, I would oppose the establishment of a theocracy unless it was from Jesus Christ himself.

You may be right about the majority of Muslims somewhere else. But the vast majority of Muslims on this board have openly stated their desire to impose Sharia worldwide including in the USA. As part of this they specifically defended such things as a Jizya on Christians and other non-muslims.

To be fair, they did not state that this would be imposed by violence but instead through the ballot box if given the chance.

Through the ballot box may be a long way off here; maybe not so far off in Europe.

 

[jupiter2]

You're obviously far more knowledgable about the forum/site than I am, so I must accept what you say at face value. I would say, however, that those who would be willing to impose Sharia probably don't know what they would really be getting into.

 

[Secundulus]

I hope you are right. Maybe it's just polemics. It doesn't paint a very comforting picture though.

 

[jupiter2]

It really doesn't, and the whole world situation isn't painting a very comforting picture at the moment. I aim to do what I can to try to calm some things down if possible, and cut through the emotionalism. I'm really trying to see what the real issues are and what is really going on. I hope I'm ready for what I find out.