Let's Set The Fossil Record Straight

[AV1611VET]

According to Genesis 1, we have: fish, then birds, then dinosaurs.

But according to the fossil record, we have: fish, then dinosaurs, then birds.

Which is correct?

Let's assume both are.

So if:

Genesis 1 = fish ... birds ... dinosaurs
Genesis 11 = fish ... dinosaurs ... birds

... do you suppose some major catastrophe occurred between Genesis 1 and Genesis 11?

 

[Colter]

According to Genesis 1, we have: fish, then birds, then dinosaurs.

But according to the fossil record, we have: fish, then dinosaurs, then birds.

Which is correct?

Let's assume both are.

So if:

Genesis 1 = fish ... birds ... dinosaurs
Genesis 11 = fish ... dinosaurs ... birds

... do you suppose some major catastrophe occurred between Genesis 1 and Genesis 11?

Yes! The Israelites were carried off to Babylon! This "catastrophe" to the Israelite EGO lead the dejected priest class to completely recast their history! They converted an ordinary secular history into a miraculous fiction, forever settling the history of the Jews and the expectations of a Jewish Messiah! No one nor any facts that are contrary to those sealed beliefs can be accepted. Christian theologians further complicated the matter by exploiting the prophets of Judaism in justification of their faith in Jesus as the "Jewish Messiah".

Also, Genesis leaves out the long spore bearing plant period in the evolution of spores to----> seeds.

 

[Tolworth John]

Yes! The Israelites were carried off to Babylon! This "catastrophe" to the Israelite EGO lead the dejected priest class to completely recast their history

Only problem with this is that analysis of the language used shows it is false.
Prof Robert Dick Wilson spent a life time examining the words used and the grammer used in the OT. His conclusion was that the OT was written when it claims to have been written.

I'm interested to know just how reliable you think the 'probable steps of seed evolution is?'

Seeds have been found trapped in amber that are identical to present day seeds, yet the amber has been dated into the dates when it was 'supposed' to be evoluving.

 

[doubtingmerle]

According to Genesis 1, we have: fish, then birds, then dinosaurs.

But according to the fossil record, we have: fish, then dinosaurs, then birds.

Which is correct?

Let's assume both are.

So if:

Genesis 1 = fish ... birds ... dinosaurs
Genesis 11 = fish ... dinosaurs ... birds

... do you suppose some major catastrophe occurred between Genesis 1 and Genesis 11?

According to your last thread two traumatic events happened. First there was a global flood. Then God cleaned up a bit, burying all the dead animals in an order consistent with evolution. None of those events make sense from the scientific view.

 

[Norbert L]

Yes! The Israelites were carried off to Babylon! This "catastrophe" to the Israelite EGO lead the dejected priest class to completely recast their history! They converted an ordinary secular history into a miraculous fiction, forever settling the history of the Jews and the expectations of a Jewish Messiah! No one nor any facts that are contrary to those sealed beliefs can be accepted. Christian theologians further complicated the matter by exploiting the prophets of Judaism in justification of their faith in Jesus as the "Jewish Messiah".

Also, Genesis leaves out the long spore bearing plant period in the evolution of spores to----> seeds.

View attachment 217522

One thing is for sure, EGOs haven't become extinct when it comes to conflicting claims about how life got to this point. However one observation needs to be made about the fossil record and it needs to be set straight. Fossils don't evolve because they can't, their dead and don't have the capacity to reproduce. Another observation to be made is mankind on any side of this issue likes to draw pictures and/or use words and place lines like this, "---->" between them.

 

[Colter]

Only problem with this is that analysis of the language used shows it is false.
Prof Robert Dick Wilson spent a life time examining the words used and the grammer used in the OT. His conclusion was that the OT was written when it claims to have been written.

I'm interested to know just how reliable you think the 'probable steps of seed evolution is?'

Seeds have been found trapped in amber that are identical to present day seeds, yet the amber has been dated into the dates when it was 'supposed' to be evoluving.

Biblical Hebrew dates to about 900-1000 B.C. Long after Moses lived. It’s a derivative of Phoenician from the Canaanite family of languages. (Paleo-Hebrew) became Biblical Hebrew, it evolved throughout the history of the Israelites. The two kingdoms even spoke different dialects. A number of scholars have anylized the Old Testament books and have shown multiple authors at different ages. Much of the OT as we know it dates to the Babylonion captivity period when preveous books were edited and redacted. Secular books mentioned in the scripture, conveniently vanished!

Spores to seed evolution dates to 170,000,000+ years ago. The oldest seed in Amber that I can find dates to 100 million years.

 

[Colter]

One thing is for sure, EGOs haven't become extinct when it comes to conflicting claims about how life got to this point. However one observation needs to be made about the fossil record and it needs to be set straight. Fossils don't evolve because they can't, their dead and don't have the capacity to reproduce. Another observation to be made is mankind on any side of this issue likes to draw pictures and/or use words and place lines like this, "---->" between them.

Fossils are a material record of the life of the age in which it was trapped. This planet has been host to many epochs of evolutionary history, from the original primitive life forms in early strata to the complex in the more recent strata.

Science simply invalidates the superstitious claims of Religions speculation and conjecture.

 

[xianghua]

. Then God cleaned up a bit, burying all the dead animals in an order consistent with evolution.

the fossil record isnt consistent with evolution more then with creation. its also interesting to note that there is some correlation between fossils order and species number. for instance:

1) bacteria population is about 10^30
2) number of molluscs species: about 100,000
3) number of fishes species: about 33,000
4) number of reptiles species: about 10,000
5) number of birds species: about 10,000
6) number of mammals species: about 5,000

very similar to what we find in the fossil record.

 

[pitabread]

the fossil record isnt consistent with evolution more then with creation.

If one believes that "creation" entails an evolutionary process, then yes, this is true. If one believes in a literal Genesis and that all life was essentially created at the same time, then no, it is not.

 

[Colter]

The handicap of being finite, the problems that arise by taking a circumscribed viewpoint.


"In such a far-flung universe of universes there is always great danger of succumbing to the error of the circumscribed viewpoint, to the evil inherent in a segmentalized conception of reality and divinity.

For example: The human mind would ordinarily crave to approach the cosmic philosophy portrayed in these revelations (or any revelation) by proceeding from the simple and the finite to the complex and the infinite, from human origins to divine destinies. But that path does not lead to spiritual wisdom. Such a procedure is the easiest path to a certain form of genetic knowledge, but at best it can only reveal man’s origin; it reveals little or nothing about his divine destiny.

Even in the study of man’s biologic evolution on Urantia, (earth) there are grave objections to the exclusive historic approach to his present-day status and his current problems. The true perspective of any reality problem—human or divine, terrestrial or cosmic—can be had only by the full and unprejudiced study and correlation of three phases of universe reality: origin, history, and destiny. The proper understanding of these three experiential realities affords the basis for a wise estimate of the current status.

When the human mind undertakes to follow the philosophic technique of starting from the lower to approach the higher, whether in biology or theology, it is always in danger of committing four errors of reasoning:

1. It may utterly fail to perceive the final and completed evolutionary goal of either personal attainment or cosmic destiny.

2. It may commit the supreme philosophical blunder by oversimplifying cosmic evolutionary (experiential) reality, thus leading to the distortion of facts, to the perversion of truth, and to the misconception of destinies.

3. The study of causation is the perusal of history. But the knowledge of how a being becomes does not necessarily provide an intelligent understanding of the present status and true character of such a being.

4. History alone fails adequately to reveal future development—destiny. Finite origins are helpful, but only divine causes reveal final effects. Eternal ends are not shown in time beginnings. The present can be truly interpreted only in the light of the correlated past and future." UB 1955

 

[David_M]

the fossil record isnt consistent with evolution more then with creation. its also interesting to note that there is some correlation between fossils order and species number. for instance:

1) bacteria population is about 10^30
2) number of molluscs species: about 100,000
3) number of fishes species: about 33,000
4) number of reptiles species: about 10,000
5) number of birds species: about 10,000
6) number of mammals species: about 5,000

very similar to what we find in the fossil record.

Insects: 91,000 described species, created after the fish according to the bible. Not surprised you ignored them.

 

[Aman777]

According to Genesis 1, we have: fish, then birds, then dinosaurs.

You are calling Whales "fish" and dinosaurs are not listed in Genesis 1.

 

[TLK Valentine]

According to Genesis 1, we have: fish, then birds, then dinosaurs.

But according to the fossil record, we have: fish, then dinosaurs, then birds.

Which is correct?

Let's assume both are.

So if:

Genesis 1 = fish ... birds ... dinosaurs
Genesis 11 = fish ... dinosaurs ... birds

... do you suppose some major catastrophe occurred between Genesis 1 and Genesis 11?

What about Genesis 2?

 

[AV1611VET]

You are calling Whales "fish" and dinosaurs are not listed in Genesis 1.

That's true.

I got my information from this picture:

... and while it's true that dinosaurs aren't specifically mentioned in Genesis 1, they are there.

Genesis 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

 

[AV1611VET]

What about Genesis 2?

He's next door.

 

[TLK Valentine]

He's next door.

Actually, it's somewhere in between...

Do you suppose some major catastrophe occurred between Genesis 1 and Genesis 11?

 

[AV1611VET]

Actually, it's somewhere in between...

No major catastrophes in Genesis 2 that I'm aware of.

 

[TLK Valentine]

No major catastrophes in Genesis 2 that I'm aware of.

...unless you try to reconcile it with Genesis 1.

 

[xianghua]

Insects: 91,000 described species, created after the fish according to the bible. Not surprised you ignored them.

insects are very small and can be eaten easily. also i didnt said anything about a perfect correlation.

 

[xianghua]

If one believes that "creation" entails an evolutionary process, then yes, this is true. If one believes in a literal Genesis and that all life was essentially created at the same time, then no, it is not.

and what about several creation events without evolution?