Lets face it...

[Chesterton]

Saying you don't believe a God exists and saying; there is no God, are two different things.

I don't believe a personal God exists, because I can not reconcile that concept with reality. I will readily admit though, I could be wrong.

I am sure, there are things you don't believe in (for various reasons), but don't claim absolutely, that those things can not exist.

No, they are not two different things. Saying "I don't believe unicorns exist" and saying "there are no unicorns" is saying the same thing.

 

[Davian]

Again, the claim that there is no God.

You say that, with the intent that I prove it to be true?

 

[Chesterton]

Ah.

Question: Concerning all of your beliefs, do you believe they are all correct ? IOW, every single thing you believe is correct, 100%, no chance you could be wrong, etc. Do you believe this about your beliefs ?

See, you say "IOW" as if you're saying the same thing in other words, but you're not. Yes I believe my beliefs are correct, otherwise I wouldn't believe them. But no, I recognize it's not possible to have a 100% guarantee of being correct.

 

[bhsmte]

No, they are not two different things. Saying "I don't believe unicorns exist" and saying "there are no unicorns" is saying the same thing.

No it isn't the same.

I don't believe ghosts exist, but I may be wrong and they do.

I don't believe aliens have visited our planet and abducted people, but I may be wrong.

 

[Chesterton]

You say that, with the intent that I prove it to be true?

No, only with the intent that we can discuss it. But we can't have a discussion of what you believe when you keep it hidden.

 

[bhsmte]

See, you say "IOW" as if you're saying the same thing in other words, but you're not. Yes I believe my beliefs are correct, otherwise I wouldn't believe them. But no, I recognize it's not possible to have a 100% guarantee of being correct.

Ok, lets turn this around. You state, if someone says they do not believe in a God, they are also saying a God does not exist, even if they admit, they may wrong.

You are saying you are not 100% sure your beliefs are correct and therefore, admit you may be wrong. In other words, you can not also say, it is for sure there is a God, you are just very confident there is one. How is that different than me saying, I don't believe a personal God exists, but I may be wrong, without you claiming; I am stating a God does not exist?

 

[Chesterton]

No it isn't the same.

I don't believe ghosts exist, but I may be wrong and they do.

I don't believe aliens have visited our planet and abducted people, but I may be wrong.

I'll give you time to edit that, then comment.

 

[bhsmte]

I'll give you time to edit that, then comment.

None required.

 

[TillICollapse]

See, you say "IOW" as if you're saying the same thing in other words, but you're not. Yes I believe my beliefs are correct, otherwise I wouldn't believe them. But no, I recognize it's not possible to have a 100% guarantee of being correct.

So you believe your beliefs are correct, but that it's not possible to have a 100% guarantee of being correct.

So you don't believe then ? You're claiming your beliefs are wrong, right ?

 

[Chesterton]

Ok, lets turn this around. You state, if someone says they do not believe in a God, they are also saying a God does not exist, even if they admit, they may wrong.

You are saying you are not 100% sure your beliefs are correct and therefore, admit you may be wrong. In other words, you can not also say, it is for sure there is a God, you are just very confident there is one. How is that different than me saying, I don't believe a personal God exists, but I may be wrong, without you claiming; I am stating a God does not exist?

I don't think I've said it was different.

 

[Chesterton]

None required.

But you said the same thing twice, which was also the same thing I'd said.

 

[Chesterton]

So you believe your beliefs are correct, but that it's not possible to have a 100% guarantee of being correct.

So you don't believe then ? You're claiming your beliefs are wrong, right ?

That doesn't follow.

 

[bhsmte]

But you said the same thing twice, which was also the same thing I'd said.

Looks like we are missing each other here, so let me reiterate my point.

You claim, if someone states; they do not believe a God exists, it is the same as saying; God does not exist.

I am disagreeing with that opinion and gave you my reasons why I disagree.

 

[TillICollapse]

That doesn't follow.

Why not ?

If you say there is a chance your beliefs are wrong, then you are claiming they are wrong.

 

[bhsmte]

Why not ?

If you say there is a chance your beliefs are wrong, then you are claiming they are wrong.

Not really.

He is saying, he could be wrong, but is very confident he is right.

 

[TillICollapse]

Not really.

He is saying, he could be wrong, but is very confident he is right.

I'll wait to see what he says ...

 

[Chesterton]

Looks like we are missing each other here, so let me reiterate my point.

You claim, if someone states; they do not believe a God exists, it is the same as saying; God does not exist.

I am disagreeing with that opinion and gave you my reasons why I disagree.

Well, what does it mean to say something exists or doesn't? It means that you believe it exists or doesn't.

 

[Chesterton]

Why not ?

If you say there is a chance your beliefs are wrong, then you are claiming they are wrong.

Allowing for the possibility of being wrong is not the same as claiming you're wrong. The city of Las Vegas would not exist otherwise.

 

[TillICollapse]

Allowing for the possibility of being wrong is not the same as claiming you're wrong. The city of Las Vegas would not exist otherwise.

Why isn't allowing for the possibility of being wrong the same as claiming you are wrong ?

How about this statement:

"I believe in God, but I could be wrong." Is that the same as claiming there is no God ?

 

[Chesterton]

Why isn't allowing for the possibility of being wrong the same as claiming you are wrong ?

How about this statement:

"I believe in God, but I could be wrong." Is that the same as claiming there is no God ?

No it's not the same.