Let's explore what it means to be called of God

[EmSw]

Only those God has regenerated respond to the call, although anyone could.

Say what?

But since unbelievers's minds are blinded by Satan, they do not respond to God.

But we can call them brethren, even dearly beloved, and have them come and sit in our pews.

If anyone is a robot, it is all the unbelievers. When Christ told us the Son will make you free, then before this you were a robotic slave of Satan and sin, kinda like the Borg on Star-Trek.

Dearly beloved robots, thank you for freely choosing to sit in our pews. I don't how you got to God's holy house being blinded, but we are so glad to have you here brethren, our dearly beloved.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

If your mind is blinded by Satan, you are perishing, you are dying.
If you do not believe, then you are blinded by Satan.
If you are blinded in your mind by Satan, then you do not believe in Christ.

A blind person does not know which way He is going, when blind men lead the blind, both fall into hell.

Yet a calvinist only has a 50/50 chance of being elected to be saved. Sounds blind to me.

 

[Job8]

Do you think all people are called or do these scriptures teach only some are called?

Sure. All people are called but only some respond to the Gospel call. There is no pre-selection of those who will respond.

 

[bottomofsandal]

Sure. All people are called but only some respond to the Gospel call. There is no pre-selection of those who will respond.

Then God has no effectual call as previously addressed, rather salvation is random.
By your reasoning, God is merely helplessly hoping men will respond to His invitation.

The Bible says God loves first, chooses first, forgives first...
What is man actually responding to and by what power if God is clueless?

This is Open Theism.
God does not and cannot yet know who will be saved because man's salvation has not taken place.
This is what Boyd alleges: God cannot foreknow what will happen, since it hasn't yet happened.
Man must have say-so in any decision that happens in the universe. God must wait on man to act.


...there is that all-important freewill again

 

[EmSw]

Then God has no effectual call as previously addressed, rather salvation is random.
By your reasoning, God is merely helplessly hoping men will respond to His invitation.

There is no effectual call; man loves to make stuff up.

God is waiting for man to obey Him.

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Do you believe what this verse says? It sounds like you do not.

The Bible says God loves first, chooses first, forgives first...
What is man actually responding to and by what power if God is clueless?

Man is responding to His Love for everyone. God not clueless, what a silly notion.

...there is that all-important freewill again

You better believe it's all important. Who forced you to write what you did?

 

[sdowney717]

There is no effectual call; man loves to make stuff up.

God is waiting for man to obey Him.

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Do you believe what this verse says? It sounds like you do not.



Man is responding to His Love for everyone. God not clueless, what a silly notion.



You better believe it's all important. Who forced you to write what you did?

Of course that is true
Jesus does say the sheep hear His voice, He knows them and they FOLLOW Him.
This has never been an issue with the doctrines of salvation by grace alone.
Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Where else do we read about being obedient?
Where scripture says we are elected to be obedient. That is God has preordained this.
Believers are obedient to the gospel and are NOT the sons of disobedience upon whom comes God's wrath.

God has chosen for us to be made obedient to Christ's call.
1 Peter 1New International Version (NIV)

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood:

Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

 

[EmSw]

Of course that is true
Jesus does say the sheep hear His voice, He knows them and they FOLLOW Him.
This has never been an issue with the doctrines of salvation by grace alone.
Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Where else do we read about being obedient?
Where scripture says we are elected to be obedient. That is God has preordained this.
Believers are obedient to the gospel and are NOT the sons of disobedience upon whom comes God's wrath.

God has chosen for us to be made obedient to Christ's call.
1 Peter 1New International Version (NIV)

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood:

Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

Then how can a believer who is disobedient keep his salvation?

 

[sdowney717]

Then how can a believer who is disobedient keep his salvation?

Plainly by God's power at work in His people.
1 Peter 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials,

And

John 6:29
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

I am sure there are many more examples. However these are clear.
God must also gift to His people faith.
'kept by the power of God through faith'

John 3:27
John answered and said, “A man can receive nothing unless it has been given to him from heaven.

So then everything we have and are are due to His power at work.

 

[Geralt]

No. All people here the gospel call but the Shepherd actually calls out only His own sheep and His sheep hears His voice comes out from among them all.

Sure. All people are called but only some respond to the Gospel call. There is no pre-selection of those who will respond.

 

[Job8]

No. All people here the gospel call but the Shepherd actually calls out only His own sheep and His sheep hears His voice comes out from among them all.

We need to understand this in light of all the Scriptures, particularly those which offer eternal life to "whosoever". Christ calls His own sheep through Divine foreknowledge, not pre-selection or election for salvation. If only some were elected for salvation then the Bible would not offer salvation to whosoever will.(John 3:14-17).

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

 

[Geralt]

I'd say speculation to fit a convenient option of selection based on a divine movie preview.

Romans 9 easily blends all your arguments and properly puts the cart after the horse. So I really have no issue with your verses supporting humanity to decide. But you do have an issue with Romans 9.

We need to understand this in light of all the Scriptures, particularly those which offer eternal life to "whosoever". Christ calls His own sheep through Divine foreknowledge, not pre-selection or election for salvation. If only some were elected for salvation then the Bible would not offer salvation to whosoever will.(John 3:14-17).

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

 

[sdowney717]

I'd say speculation to fit a convenient option of selection based on a divine movie preview.

Romans 9 easily blends all your arguments and properly puts the cart after the horse. So I really have no issue with your verses supporting humanity to decide. But you do have an issue with Romans 9.

And any verse where Jesus talks about all those the Father has given Him.
Which is predestination at work, very clear in John 17 and it does say, 'authority - power over all flesh'.

John 17New King James Version (NKJV)
Jesus Prays for Himself
17 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,

2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.

So they are given to Christ as believers in Him by God the Holy Father in heaven and Christ gives them eternal life, all God has given to Him.

 

[sdowney717]

If they are given to Christ by God, then whose will is at work, man's or God's?

Ephesians v4 and v5 teaches the answer.
And why would God do such a thing?, well read v6

Ephesians 1New King James Version (NKJV)
Greeting
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,

To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus:

2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Redemption in Christ
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

God does this for His glory, predestines and saves us with His heavenly calling of grace.
That glory of His grace is to be praised by those He has saved who were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world.
Yet it seems many posters on this forum don't like God doing this at all, even calling it something only an evil God would do, so they do not believe what God has said about these things, and they seek to challenge what He said by trying to pervert the meaning of the words. Got to wonder if they really have transformed hearts that have become like little children. To me they sound more like Satan, saying. Has God said, etc...

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You are assuming no human choice here. People are blind to the truth because they choose to be blind to it. Have you ever tried to talk to someone and they stuck their fingers in their ears and started yelling at the top of their lungs? It is not that they can't hear, rather they choose not to. Same goes here (if you were to choose to accept it). People can choose not to see what they don't want to see. It is not that they have no choice, rather they have made their choice.

Some cannot hear. Remember YHWH'S WORD.
YHWH has (HIMSELF) sent a famine....

Yet a calvinist only has a 50/50 chance of being elected to be saved. Sounds blind to me.

Who gave you that 50/50 number? I think for the whole world it is more like , well, better not say here.

You better believe it's all important. Who forced you to write what you did?

A chinese software keyloogger torjan horse maybe ?

This has never been an issue with the doctrines of salvation by grace alone.

It has frequently been an issue associated with what is called "by grace alone".

Where scripture says we are elected to be obedient. That is God has preordained this.

There may be a big problem with this idea.
YHWH knew everything for and through all time about everyone,
before HE CREATED the universe and everything in it and all life.
Knowing what HE KNOWS (and always KNEW) , HE DECIDED who to 'ordain' before creating the world and all the people in it. HE LET THEM DECIDE ! THEN HE put HIS STAMP ON IT.

God has chosen for us to be made obedient to Christ's call.

MAYBE. MAYBE not. (Simple, but cannot be determined here. YHWH DOES KNOW ALREADY THOUGH)

Then how can a believer who is disobedient keep his salvation?

That's kind of like asking how can a black dot be a white dot, isn't it? (re 1st JOHN et al)

No. All people here the gospel call but the Shepherd actually calls out only His own sheep and His sheep hears His voice comes out from among them all.

Compare "calls out only HIS OWN sheep" with "MANY ARE CALLED...."

If they are given to Christ by God, then whose will is at work, man's or God's?

YHWH'S WILL WILL NOT override man's will. (remember when Jerusalem was UNwilling?)

Yet it seems many posters on this forum don't like God doing this at all

So ? Not one of us used to like what YHWH does. We didn't even seek HIM at first.

 

[sdowney717]

↑
Where scripture says we are elected to be obedient. That is God has preordained this.
There may be a big problem with this idea.
YHWH knew everything for and through all time about everyone,
before HE CREATED the universe and everything in it and all life.
Knowing what HE KNOWS (and always KNEW) , HE DECIDED who to 'ordain' before creating the world and all the people in it. HE LET THEM DECIDE ! THEN HE put HIS STAMP ON IT.

Prove He does not elect us to be obedient, I already pointed He does in 1 Peter 1.

 

[sdowney717]

Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

So then elect since He foreknew US, this is speaking of believers, so then to be made holy, obedient to the Holy Spirit, and sprinkled with His blood.

In other words we were 'chosen in Him before the foundation of the world'

, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

So then prove this is not true.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Prove He does not elect us to be obedient, I already pointed He does in 1 Peter 1.

So ?
You pointed it out.
That doesn't at all prove who HE elected, nor why.

 

[sdowney717]

So ?
You pointed it out.
That doesn't at all prove who He elected, nor why.

The whole point is when the apostles write to the saints in the church, they are saying they are elect, so then are His saints.
Are you one of His saints?
The only other choice is your an antichrist.

Luke 11:23
He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The whole point is when the apostles write to the saints in the church, they are saying they are elect, so then are His saints.
Are you one of His saints?
The only other choice is your an antichrist.

Luke 11:23
He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters.

I gather with Y'SHUA.
Are you with us or against us? (who gather with Y'SHUA)
As you said there's only one other choice.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Or: Prove you are one of these strangers in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia.

1 Peter
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.