Let's discuss... "prophecies."

[HitchSlap]

Every so often here on CF, prophecies come up as proof for the bible, etc. This thread is to be a place to discuss, argue, dispute, support, etc., all things prophecy related.

To get us started, here's a short video made by a young adult, listing seven failed biblical prophecies.

 

[HitchSlap]

Here, we have past and future predictions of the second coming of Jesus.


Predictions and claims for the Second Coming of Christ - Wikipedia

 

[Residential Bob]

Here, we have past and future predictions of the second coming of Jesus.


Predictions and claims for the Second Coming of Christ - Wikipedia

I'm amazed that so many futurists, even on these boards, say that we are now living in the end times.

In the past, doomsday prophets have always been wrong. But now is different. Somehow.

 

[HitchSlap]

I'm amazed that so many futurists, even on these boards, say that we are now living in the end times.

In the past, doomsday prophets have always been wrong. But now is different. Somehow.

Well, we all have an end time, some sooner than others.

 

[Speedwell]

I'm amazed that so many futurists, even on these boards, say that we are now living in the end times.

In the past, doomsday prophets have always been wrong. But now is different. Somehow.

It's always different, somehow.

But there are prophecies and then there are prophecies. The term originally meant a message communicated to the prophet by God. The message was not necessarily a prediction about the future. Some are straightforward predictions, like Matt 16:28. Some are merely allegorical commentaries on current events, like the Book of Daniel.

 

[JackRT]

Some of us Christians are inordinately fond of boasting of the prophetic accuracy of the Bible. However, in order to have a verified example of prophecy fulfillment, there are certain criteria that must be adhered to:

1) THE PROPHECY MUST BE CLEARLY ISSUED AS A PROPHECY AND UNEQUIVOCALLY DESCRIBE THE EVENT WHICH IT PREDICTS. --- No hints or intimations from the Old Testament claimed to be fulfilled in the New. Example: Psalms allusions.

2) THE PROPHECY MUST BE PROVEN TO HAVE BEEN RECORDED PRIOR TO THE EVENT BEING PREDICTED --- Jesus may have predicted the destruction of Jerusalem, but the Gospels were written after this happened. We cannot produce an authentic first century manuscript of a gospel, let alone any written prior to this event. Example: nothing in Daniel can be shown to have been written before 165 BC.

3) THE PROPHECY FULFILLMENT MAY NOT CONSIST OF ANY EVENT CAPABLE OF BEING STAGED FOR THE PURPOSE OF FULFILLING PROPHECY --- Example: Jesus riding into town on a donkey.

4) THE EVENT(S) BEING PREDICTED MUST CONSIST OF SOMETHING THAT CANNOT BE EXPLAINED BY AN INTELLIGENT GUESS --- Example: Jeremiah predicting that Babylon, clearly an expansionist power, would soon sack Judea. This is mundane punditry, not supernatural prophecy.

5) THE EVENTS MUST HAVE ACTUALLY COME TO PASS --- The fact that the bible says they did is not sufficient in the absence of external confirmation. Example: The flight into Egypt by Jesus, Mary and Joseph.

These criteria are just as equally applicable to prophesy in scriptures other than the Bible and indeed in what might be called prophesy in other contexts.

 

[Speedwell]

3) THE PROPHECY FULFILLMENT MAY NOT CONSIST OF ANY EVENT CAPABLE OF BEING STAGED FOR THE PURPOSE OF FULFILLING PROPHECY --- Example: Jesus riding into town on a donkey.

That's an interesting one. Not only was the event staged, the staging of it was openly described. That such an admission was OK with the author of the story tells us something abut prophecy that modern Evangelicals just don't get.

 

[Residential Bob]

It's always different, somehow.

But there are prophecies and then there are prophecies. The term originally meant a message communicated to the prophet by God. The message was not necessarily a prediction about the future. Some are straightforward predictions, like Matt 16:28. Some are merely allegorical commentaries on current events, like the Book of Daniel.

In the Apostolic Age, prophecy begins to take on a different meaning. St. Paul addresses this.

Prophets once spoke for God. In the last days, though, as the end of the age approached, God spoke through Christ (Heb 1:2).

Since then, prophets have become a laughing stock who should feel shame for their foolishness, because in reality, God has removed them from His plan (Zech 13:13:2-4).

 

[A Realist]

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

"Hi, George. My name is Michael. Mind if I join you?"

 

[Tinker Grey]

What is Seinfeld?

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

What is Seinfeld?

A show about nothing.

 

[A Realist]

"Hi, George. My name is Michael. Mind if I join you?"

Pull up a chair! If the Charismatics show up, this is gonna get interesting!

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

"Hi, George. My name is Michael. Mind if I join you?"

 

[Theo Barnsley]

Practically every prophecy quoted by apologists & missionaries that is in the old testament that is supposed to be prophecy about jesus, has nothing at all to do with Jesus when it is read in context. When the whole chapter is read, & the passage that has been plucked out of the bible is put in the correct context, it is easy to see that it could not possibly be predicting what the apologists claim.

 

[DennisTate]

Every so often here on CF, prophecies come up as proof for the bible, etc. This thread is to be a place to discuss, argue, dispute, support, etc., all things prophecy related.

To get us started, here's a short video made by a young adult, listing seven failed biblical prophecies.

Failed prophecies...... can perhaps actually be the most successful prophecies in the sense that they may have altered the behaviour of humans so that the disaster was delayed and delayed and delayed and delayed......

The Future and the Near-Death Experience

One of Margot Grey's NDE research subjects stated:


"During my experience ... I was also shown events that are likely to happen in the near future, but was made to understand that nothing is absolutely fixed and that everything depends on how we choose to use our own free will, that even those events that are already predestined can be changed or modified by a change in our own way of relating to them." (Grey, 1985, p. 123)

NDE experiencer Howard Storm was given information on how the future is not fixed:


"We have free will. If we change the way we are, then we can change the future which they showed me. They showed me a view of the future, at the time of my experience, based upon how we in the United States were behaving at that time. It was a future in which a massive worldwide depression would occur. If we were to change our behavior, however, then the future would be different." (Howard Storm)

Howard Storm was also told how a single person can change the world:


"All it takes to make a change was one person. One person, trying, and then because of that, another person changing for the better. They said that the only way to change the world was to begin with one person. One will become two, which will become three, and so on. That's the only way to affect a major change" (Howard Storm)

 

[DennisTate]

Pull up a chair! If the Charismatics show up, this is gonna get interesting!

Near death experiencer Dannion Brinkley back in 1975 was shown over a hundred predictions for the future. More than eighty of them did indeed come to pass but one of his scariest was delayed and delayed and delayed already.............

BOX 12: Technology & Virus

The 11th box was gone & I was into the 12th box. Its visions addressed an important event in the distant future, the decade of the 90's (remember, this was 1975), when many of the great changes would take place. In this box, I watched as a biological engineer from the Middle East found a way to alter DNA & create a biological virus that would be used in the manufacture of computer chips. This discovery allowed for huge strides in science & technology. Japan, China, & other countries of the Pacific Rim experienced boom times as a result of this discovery & became powers of incredible magnitude. Computer chips produced from this process found their way into virtually every form of technology, from cars & airplanes to vacuum cleaners & blenders.

Before the turn of the century, this man was among the richest in the world, so rich that he had a stranglehold on the world economy. Still the world welcomed him, since the computer chips he had designed somehow put the world on an even keel. Gradually, he succumbed to his own power. He began to think of himself as a deity & insisted on greater control of the world. With that extra control, he began to rule the world.

His method of rule was unique. Everyone in the world was mandated by law to have one of his computer chips inserted underneath his or her skin. This chip contained all of an individual's personal information. If a government agency wanted to know something, all it had to do was scan your chip with a special device. By doing so, it could discover everything about you, from where you worked & lived to your medical records & even what kind of illnesses you might get in the future.

There was an even more sinister side to this chip. A person's lifetime could be limited by programming this chip to dissolve & kill him with the viral substance it was made from. Lifetimes were controlled like this to avoid the cost that growing old places on the government. It was also used as a means of eliminating people with chronic illnesses that put a drain on the medical system. People who refused to have chips implanted in their bodies roamed as outcasts. They could not be employed & were denied government services." (Dannion Brinkley, Saved By The Light, chapter 5)

My theory is that this may already have occurred in another time line..... in another example of Applied Multiverse Theory....... (applied by an Intelligence beyond the comprehension of the greatest human mind but.... some are getting the general idea)!

www.CarbonBias.blogspot.ca/

"The real burden in the next three centuries will not be the development of fancy mathematics, but the experimental testing of these ambitious theories. All current thinking about total unification assumes that the effects of linking all the forces and particles together will only become manifest at energies that are some trillion times greater than those currently attainable in particle accelerators. Probably we shall never reach such energies directly" ( A Theory of Everything" Volume 21 of "The World of Science)

 

[DennisTate]

Here, we have past and future predictions of the second coming of Jesus.


Predictions and claims for the Second Coming of Christ - Wikipedia

Back in 1988 I was pretty sure that I had the Bible pretty much figured out......... these days I know that I know essentially nothing about the Bible.

Former Skeptic and near death experiencer Rabbi Alon Anava has gone through a transformation that sounds to me like the metaphorical fulfillment of Zechariah 14

It is like his old carnal eyes have melted out of his body.... and he looks at the whole world in an entirely new way.... These days he is all out full throttle determined to lead one more relatively fallen soul back toward doing Teshuvah / repentance.

What he has gone through sure reminds me of many aspects of Matthew chapter 4.... but I admit that I am biased.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Every so often here on CF, prophecies come up as proof for the bible, etc. This thread is to be a place to discuss, argue, dispute, support, etc., all things prophecy related.

To get us started, here's a short video made by a young adult, listing seven failed biblical prophecies.

.....I.....I.....g..g..guess...it's ...time for me to throw out all of my books on prophecy, along with those on interpretation. Oh, boo hoo, boo hoo, boo hoo! These atheists are just too smart and too well informed.

 

[A Realist]

.....I.....I.....g..g..guess...it's ...time for me to throw out all of my books on prophecy, along with those on interpretation. Oh, boo hoo, boo hoo, boo hoo! These atheists are just too smart and too well informed.

Why would you need those books?