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Let the Reckoning Begin

Hans Blaster

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Please read this article "God by the Numbers"
You might find it to be useful.

We could only read to the first sub-head, but when I saw it was 'fine tuning' I knew it was a useless article. (There is no mechanism to even calculate the probability of the physics of the Universe having the values that we have measured. Any calculation based on the "probability of the Universe" is classic GIGO.)
 
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Vambram

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<Looks around at the modern world science has created>

Yes. Can't imagine why they wouldn't reject this theory that continues to provide explanatory power and real world results. Must be a giant conspiracy.
It is a fallacy to believe that the theory of evolution is the foundation of the modern world science has created.
 
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Vambram

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Vambram

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Belk

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The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics also shows that macro evolution never happened.

Even creationist sites point this out as a bad argument.


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Ophiolite

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Vambram

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In your own words please explain precisely and quantitatively how the 2nd Law absolutely precludes the possibility of macro evolution.
I am not a scientist. However, to me, it is Logical and rational thinking about the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.
 
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Vambram

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Ophiolite

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I am not a scientist. However, to me, it is Logical and rational thinking about the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.
If you are unable to express the relevance of the 2nd Law in your own words then you do not know enough about the 2nd law to know if your are applying it logically and rationally. Since those who do understand the 2nd Law would readily declare that your are not so doing, your unfounded assertion, based upon a lack of understanding, may safely be ignored.

I would never for one moment think of making assertions about whether heresies defined under the Nicene Creed of 325 were all heresies under the amended Nicene-Constantinople Creed of 381, because I am not a theologian and my amateurish readings in the matter are inadequate to the task. It is a pity you do not have similar reservations about your competence in regard to evolution.

If this strikes you as elitist that would be because it is. If I require a gall bladder operation I don't seek out the best plumber in the county, nor ask a surgeon to fix a leaking pipe.
 
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Belk

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Hans Blaster

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Gene2memE

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Arguments creationists shouldn't use:

"Second Law of Thermodynamics and the Fall

We most often equate entropy with decay and thus associate this idea with the “running down of the universe.” However, some aspects of entropy are important for maintaining life, and these aspects are not “bad.” "


The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics began at the Fall.”

This law says that the entropy (‘disorder’) of the Universe increases over time, and some have thought that this was the result of the Curse. However, disorder isn’t always harmful. An obvious example is digestion, breaking down large complex food molecules into their simple building blocks. Another is friction, which turns ordered mechanical energy into disordered heat—otherwise Adam and Eve would have slipped as they walked with God in Eden! A less obvious example to laymen might be the sun heating the Earth—to a physical chemist, heat transfer from a hot object to a cold one is the classic case of the Second Law in action. Also, breathing is based on another classic Second Law process, gas moving from a high pressure to low pressure. Finally, all beneficial processes in the world, including the development from embryo to adult, increase the overall disorder of the universe, showing that the Second Law is not inherently a curse.

Death and suffering of nephesh animals before sin are contrary to the Biblical framework above, as are suffering (or ‘groaning in travail’ (Rom. 8:20–22)). It is more likely that God withdrew some of His sustaining power (Col. 1:15–17) at the Fall so that the decay effect of the Second Law was no longer countered."



Here's what the NCSE had to say (from 1981!)

 
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essentialsaltes

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Quick question for the evolutionists here.
Do you believe that the evolution is theistic evolution

As a scientific theory, there's no difference between evolution and theistic evolution.

or intelligent design?

The assertions put forward by ID proponentists have not been supported by the evidence. ID is not evolution, and its boldest claims do not match reality.
 
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Vambram

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It is well known that, left to themselves, chemical compounds ultimately break apart into simpler materials; they do not ultimately become more complex. Outside forces can increase order for a time (through the expenditure of relatively large amounts of energy, and through the input of design). However, such reversal cannot last forever. Once the force is released, processes return to their natural direction - greater disorder. Their energy is transformed into lower levels of availability for further work. The natural tendency of complex, ordered arrangements and systems is to become simpler and more disorderly with time.
In the long run, complex, ordered arrangements actually tend to become simpler and more disorderly with time. There is an irreversible downward trend ultimately at work throughout the universe. Evolution, with its ever increasing order and complexity, appears impossible in the natural world.

"Of all the statements that have been made with respect to theories on the origin of life, the statement that the Second Law of Thermodynamics poses no problem for an evolutionary origin of life is the most absurd… The operation of natural processes on which the Second Law of Thermodynamics is based is alone sufficient, therefore, to preclude the spontaneous evolutionary origin of the immense biological order required for the origin of life." (Duane Gish, Ph.D. in biochemistry from University of California at Berkeley)
World-renowned Evolutionist and avid anti-Creationist Isaac Asimov confirmed that:

"Another way of stating the second law then is, 'The universe is constantly getting more disorderly!' Viewed that way we can see the second law all about us. We have to work hard to straighten a room, but left to itself it becomes a mess again very quickly and very easily. Even if we never enter it, it becomes dusty and musty. How difficult to maintain houses, and machinery, and our own bodies in perfect working order: how easy to let them deteriorate. In fact, all we have to do is nothing, and everything deteriorates, collapses, breaks down, wears out, all by itself - and that is what the second law is all about."

Isaac Asimov, "In the Game of Energy and Thermodynamics You Can't Even Break Even", Smithsonian Institution Journal (June 1970), p. 6

"The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that the amount of available work you can get out of the energy of the universe is constantly decreasing. If you have a great deal of energy in one place, a large intensity of it, so that you have a high temperature here and a low temperature there, then you can get work out of that situation. The smaller the difference in temperature, the less work you can get out of it. Now, according to the Second Law of Thermodynamics, there is always a tendency for the hot areas to cool off and the cool areas to warm up—so that less and less work can be obtained out of it. Until finally, when everything is one temperature, you cannot get any work out of it, even though all the energy is still there. And this is true for EVERYTHING in general, the universe all over."
 
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essentialsaltes

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Outside forces can increase order for a time (through the expenditure of relatively large amounts of energy

Fortunately, the Sun exists!
 
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Belk

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It is well known that, left to themselves, chemical compounds ultimately break apart into simpler materials; they do not ultimately become more complex. Outside forces can increase order for a time (through the expenditure of relatively large amounts of energy, and through the input of design). However, such reversal cannot last forever. Once the force is released, processes return to their natural direction - greater disorder. Their energy is transformed into lower levels of availability for further work. The natural tendency of complex, ordered arrangements and systems is to become simpler and more disorderly with time.
In the long run, complex, ordered arrangements actually tend to become simpler and more disorderly with time. There is an irreversible downward trend ultimately at work throughout the universe. Evolution, with its ever increasing order and complexity, appears impossible in the natural world.

"Of all the statements that have been made with respect to theories on the origin of life, the statement that the Second Law of Thermodynamics poses no problem for an evolutionary origin of life is the most absurd… The operation of natural processes on which the Second Law of Thermodynamics is based is alone sufficient, therefore, to preclude the spontaneous evolutionary origin of the immense biological order required for the origin of life." (Duane Gish, Ph.D. in biochemistry from University of California at Berkeley)
World-renowned Evolutionist and avid anti-Creationist Isaac Asimov confirmed that:

"Another way of stating the second law then is, 'The universe is constantly getting more disorderly!' Viewed that way we can see the second law all about us. We have to work hard to straighten a room, but left to itself it becomes a mess again very quickly and very easily. Even if we never enter it, it becomes dusty and musty. How difficult to maintain houses, and machinery, and our own bodies in perfect working order: how easy to let them deteriorate. In fact, all we have to do is nothing, and everything deteriorates, collapses, breaks down, wears out, all by itself - and that is what the second law is all about."

Isaac Asimov, "In the Game of Energy and Thermodynamics You Can't Even Break Even", Smithsonian Institution Journal (June 1970), p. 6

"The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that the amount of available work you can get out of the energy of the universe is constantly decreasing. If you have a great deal of energy in one place, a large intensity of it, so that you have a high temperature here and a low temperature there, then you can get work out of that situation. The smaller the difference in temperature, the less work you can get out of it. Now, according to the Second Law of Thermodynamics, there is always a tendency for the hot areas to cool off and the cool areas to warm up—so that less and less work can be obtained out of it. Until finally, when everything is one temperature, you cannot get any work out of it, even though all the energy is still there. And this is true for EVERYTHING in general, the universe all over."
I see your appeal to a science fiction author and raise you an actual experiment.

 
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BPPLEE

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With enough time and medical advancements, most medical practices of today will look bad in retrospect. There's a chance that one day, we can find the root cause behind gender disphoria and can help people suffering from it to feel at home in the bodies they were born with, if they want to. But at the moment, gender reassignment surgery is for many patients the best treatment on offer, with a "regret" rate that is far below what some people want to make you believe and a marked decrease in self-harm and suicide incidents.

I can see that there is an argument to be had regarding the treatment of children, but for adults, the outcome is generally positive. And in the end, it's their body to do with as they want to.
Adults can do what they want to do. No argument there
 
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Vambram

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I see your appeal to a science fiction author and raise you an actual experiment.
I did not use a science fiction author.
 
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