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Let the Reckoning Begin

Vambram

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Gene2memE

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Gosh, there's a lot of misleading and mendacious claims in that document.

This is the creationist/climate change denial playbook transferred over to gender health issues - sow doubt by inserting a wedge anywhere there's not perfect knowledge or debate about specifics/policy approachs within the scientific community. Then claim that the experts don't know what they're talking about/doing more harm than good.

This feels about as genuine as the Climatic Research Unit hacking 'controversy', where some very normal email conversations and position documents got wildly taken out of context by climate change denialists, who then proceeded to lead the media down the garden path with all sorts of conspiracy theories.


For instance on page 81, there's this claim "WPATH members adhere to the belief that attempting to help a patient overcome their feelings of gender incongruence and reconcile with their birth sex amounts to conversion therapy".

It cites this document: https://www.wpath.org/media/cms/Doc...ASIAPATH.EPATH.PATHA.USPATH.pdf?_t=1669428978

I'll note a couple of things.

This document is not from WPATH alone. It's a response to the UK's NHS interim service specification on gender identity services for children and young people. It includes input from four other transgender health organisations (SIAPATH, EPATH, PATHA, and USPATH).

The only reference to conversion therapy in that document on page 5 (bottom of point 9):

"Indeed, the denial of gender-affirming treatment under the guise of “exploratory therapy” has caused enormous harm to the transgender and gender diverse community and is tantamount to “conversion” or “reparative” therapy under another name."​

That statement is correct. And completely in line with medical standards.

The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) and the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry (AACAP) hold similar positions.

Here's the AAP policy statement on 'Ensuring Comprehensive Care and Support for Transgender and Gender-Diverse Children and Adolescents', which was last re-affirmed in August 2023.

https://publications.aap.org/pediat...1/Ensuring-Comprehensive-Care-and-Support-for

In contrast, “conversion” or “reparative” treatment models are used to prevent children and adolescents from identifying as transgender or to dissuade them from exhibiting gender-diverse expressions. The Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration has concluded that any therapeutic intervention with the goal of changing a youth’s gender expression or identity is inappropriate. Reparative approaches have been proven to be not only unsuccessful but also deleterious and are considered outside the mainstream of traditional medical practice. The AAP described reparative approaches as “unfair and deceptive.”43

Similarly, here's excerpts from the AACPA's position:

There is "no evidence to support the application of any “therapeutic intervention” operating under the premise that a specific sexual orientation, gender identity, and/or gender expression is pathological."
That " “conversion therapies” (or other interventions imposed with the intent of promoting a particular sexual orientation and/or gender as a preferred outcome) lack scientific credibility and clinical utility."
That "there is evidence that such interventions are harmful. As a result, “conversion therapies” should not be part of any behavioral health treatment of children and adolescents."

So, WPATH is right. Denying gender affirming treatment and relying on “gender exploratory therapy” is harmful and tantamount to "conversion/reparative therapy". If you want to read up on this particular sub-topic, I'd suggest starting with these::

 
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Vambram

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Who should I believe?
Should I believe the medical establishment making lots of money off of these gender changing surgeries and treatments, or the actual testimony of kids whom have been irrevocably harmed by those treatments?
 
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NBB

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Cutting healthy body parts should never be the answer to anything, less on children, you know how many teen/transgender suicides i heard of when i was a teen? it was unknown, the whole idea of 'questioning your gender' didn't even existed in our minds, transvenstites were some adults that decided to be that way and that was weird and rare, i'm just 44 not that old, so first they get the kids minds sick with gender ideology, then they propose 'affirming care' to fix it, it's sick, this was not needed for thousands of years of history, if its not broke don't fix it,.
 
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Gene2memE

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Profit motive? You think this comes down to profit motive.

Wow. I understand you so much better now. Thanks for correcting an assumption.

If you want to make money out of healthcare or medicine, there are VASTLY easier and faster ways to do so.
 
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Vambram

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Profit motive? You think this comes down to profit motive.

Wow. I understand you so much better now. Thanks for correcting an assumption.

If you want to make money out of healthcare or medicine, there are VASTLY easier and faster ways to do so.
And you actually think that transgender surgery and hormone therapy on children is a good thing????
Wow. If that is true, then I understand you so much better now.
 
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Gene2memE

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And you actually think that transgender surgery and hormone therapy on children is a good thing???

That's what the evidence suggests, as provided by medical associations and health care professionals.

Wow. If that is true, then I understand you so much better now.

Yes, I believe that children should get treatment after thorough consultation with medical professionals and guidance from parents/guardians.
 
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Larniavc

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Children should never EVER be experimented upon for the financial gain of those in the medical profession as well as to push a social agenda.

Conclusions:​

Based on this review, there is an extremely low prevalence of regret in transgender patients after GAS. We believe this study corroborates the improvements made in regard to selection criteria for GAS.
 
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Larniavc

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Should I believe the medical establishment making lots of money off of these gender changing surgeries and treatments,
Just because the profit motive for health care in the US is so deeply engrained and part of the predatory "Screw You I Got Mine" culture does not mean it is that way in other less mercenary self absorbed cultures.
 
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Vambram

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Transgender surgery upon children is nothing less than genitalia mutilation.
Period. Without any doubts at all, I believe that those who support it are supporting something that is an evil abomination.
 
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Vambram

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Arcangl86

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Transgender surgery upon children is nothing less than genitalia mutilation.
Period. Without any doubts at all, I believe that those who support it are supporting something that is an evil abomination.
How do you feel about circumcision?
 
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iluvatar5150

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Who should I believe?
Should I believe the medical establishment making lots of money off of these gender changing surgeries and treatments, or the actual testimony of kids whom have been irrevocably harmed by those treatments?
Looks to me like you've chosen to believe the parts of the media that make money off of ginning outrage over things like this.

You don't think the folks at the Daily Signal work for free, do you?
 
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Vambram

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Vambram

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Looks to me like you've chosen to believe the parts of the media that make money off of ginning outrage over things like this.

You don't think the folks at the Daily Signal work for free, do you?
My beliefs against transgenderism are based upon the Scriptures as well as the facts of biology.
Biological Males are males and Biological females are females.
Period.
 
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iluvatar5150

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My beliefs against transgenderism are based upon the Scriptures as well as the facts of biology.
Biological Males are males and Biological females are females.
Period.
Your post was about the medical establishment and their profit motives. In criticizing the medical establishment’s profit motives, you overlooked the profit motives of the people feeding you the red meat.
 
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Vambram

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No
I did not.
Instead, I read and shared an article from a reputable organization that believes just as I do about the horrors of transgender ideology and transgend surgery, and transgender treatments upon kids.


If transgenderism stuff being foisted upon children doesn't bother you, then we really don't have anything to discuss with each other about this topic.
 
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iluvatar5150

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No
I did not.
Instead, I read and shared an article from a reputable organization that
… was apparently not reputable enough to not commit the errors that another poster caught.
 
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