Let go and let god?

[SuperBeaver]

Hi

I'm relatively new to the forums, I haven't posted that much and took me a while to figure out which area of the forum to even post in!

Anyway, a long story short, I've been involved in various "new age" type practices and have recently been reading about Christianity, primarily because of Dr Lane Craig's debates and an interest in the Eastern Orthodox - of which the mystical element appealed to me (rightly or wrongly).

Anyway, one of the practices I took to heart the most and practiced for a few years was something called the "Sedona Method" or "Release Technique". I apologise if I'm not supposed to refer to specific products and I promise I'm not a sales man.

Anyway, the techniques teach primarily to let go of feelings you don't want, in addition to other far reaching goals. Now whether this is possible or whether you're actually just giving into suggestions I'm not sure. However, once you get into it, it damn feels real enough, the letting go of good or bad feelings begins to be accompanied by pleasurable feelings and relaxation and the definite feeling of a release.

Although the techniques at their core do have a neo-advaita (hindu) type philosophy incorporated I can potentially see how a Christian might find use of the techniques.

One aspect that I think could apply to a Christian is the idea of surrender, letting go and letting god take over.

Now is that a Christian idea, is it compatible or is that a hindu concept?

Theoretically the technique might allow you to let go of your personal ego and allow god or the holy spirit to take over. Is that compatible with Christian concepts?

On the other hand, I might see how a Christian good see the technique as just another new age technique that might cause dissociation and that perhaps the ideas are not compatible.

I'd be grateful to hear various opinions on this and if you'd like any further detail please let me know. Thanks.

 

[Booko]

I have the book "Sedona Method" on the recommendation of one of the more, er, "woo woo" alternative doctors I've seen over the years. Unfortunately I did little more than skim it. I can't say I dislike New Age things so much as they just run 180 degrees counter to my personality.

However, to your general question, one of the reasons I did not bother to actually read the book was my acquaintance with several religious ideas, from the Buddha's Four Noble Truths to the Christian and Jewish ideas on forgiveness (among others).

From a strictly Christian perspective, there's great power in the idea of forgiveness and returning hate with love. Forgiveness leaves room for the other to change -- and it will keep you healthier, both spiritually and physically.

The idea of "let go and let God" was what came to my mind on skimming the Sedona book, and LOL was why I didn't actually bother to read it. It didn't appear to have any terribly novel ideas that seemed useful at the time so I put the book aside.

Anyway, the concept seems to be there in nearly every religion in some form. Just because the Hindus have such a concept shouldn't make it unChristian to have that concept, any more than "do not lie" becomes and unChristian idea just because nearly every other religion has the same concept.

The bottom line of what makes something unChristian, I would think, is how it measures up to what Christ said -- not who else may or may not have said the same thing.

 

[Foghorn]

One aspect that I think could apply to a Christian is the idea of surrender, letting go and letting god take over.

Now is that a Christian idea, is it compatible or is that a hindu concept?

Theoretically the technique might allow you to let go of your personal ego and allow god or the holy spirit to take over. Is that compatible with Christian concepts?

On the other hand, I might see how a Christian good see the technique as just another new age technique that might cause dissociation and that perhaps the ideas are not compatible.

I'd be grateful to hear various opinions on this and if you'd like any further detail please let me know. Thanks.

The "let go let God." thing is not a magic role to follow. Many Christians try it, only to find out it is not as easy as one says.

I would have to ask you and Christians, how do you do it?

Explain to me how, "you let go and let God?"

Personally I think this causes a lot of confusion in many believers today, especially young ones.

Those who may be "mature(?)" believers, I would hope would have to wisdom to understand what it means, and the knowledge to explain it for application.

Those who are younger, I fear, will be led down different trails building their understanding of what being a Christian is all about. For example, if someone is suffering from depression from financial hardship, and family problems with a threat of divorce,.....how does, "let go, let God apply?"

Will God grant them financial success and fix their marriage? Suppose it is God's will for them to go through this financial hardship? What if it is God's will for them to be poor?
What happens months later when they have lost so much and it does not seem to be getting better? had God not done His thing, you let God but, God didn't do?

Or what about the person suffering from depression?


I disagree with these words, "let go let God," when it is said all by it's self, by good meaning people with no disciplining. It opens the door to so many areas of disappointments, misconception and error's of God's word. It also gives the cults something to compare with.

Respectfully, does not the op give example of not understanding?

Now is that a Christian idea, is it compatible or is that a hindu concept?

Personally I believe, to define "let go, let God," is....................: As one matures in Christ they learn, and at very different paces, individually, that letting go and letting God is resting in who Christ is and what he has done, and a sovereign God, knowing He is in control and His will will be done.

Even though we suffer, as we will if we are Christ's, we know God works all things out for good to those who are His, and it is resting in that fact.
Matt 6
25 “For this reason I say to you, do not be worried about your life, as to what you will eat or what you will drink; nor for your body, as to what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they? 27 And who of you by being worried can add a single hour to his life? 28 And why are you worried about clothing? Observe how the lilies of the field grow; they do not toil nor do they spin, 29 yet I say to you that not even Solomon in all his glory clothed himself like one of these. 30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, will He not much more clothe you? You of little faith! 31 Do not worry then, saying, ‘What will we eat?’ or ‘What will we drink?’ or ‘What will we wear for clothing?’ 32 For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. 33 But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.
34 “So do not worry about tomorrow; for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.


This is something the world and the cults cannot relate to.

 

[Forge3]

Hard indeed for our fallen nature. I think it is akin to humility, becoing 'little' like a child in the Lord. This is resisted by false pride.

 

[Foghorn]

Hard indeed for our fallen nature. I think it is akin to humility, becoing 'little' like a child in the Lord. This is resisted by false pride.

That's a great point Forge!

 

[Forge3]

That's a great point Forge!

And to add our desire for such is co-opted by God so obtaining that state is a cooperation in salvific grace not something that simply changes us overnight by effort. Though a profound conversion may happen in a moment, there were events and inner working that led to that moment. Trust is a key word. Trust in times of clam or in a tempest storm of trials and temptations.

God's unconditional love invites us to unconditional trust.

 

[Foghorn]

And to add our desire for such is co-opted by God so obtaining that state is a cooperation in salvific grace not something that simply changes us overnight by effort.

I understand it as descriptive of a believer, however, from false teaching and misconceptions this description may take time to see.

Though a profound conversion may happen in a moment, there were events and inner working that led to that moment.

Hhmm, interesting. Trust is a key word. Trust in times of clam or in a tempest storm of trials and temptations.

God's unconditional love invites us to unconditional trust.

 

[Forge3]

Ooops I meant calm not clam.

 

[Foghorn]

Ooops I meant calm not clam.

Lol, I know what you meant.

 

[Tobias]

"Let go and let God" is the basic formula for faith, isn't it?


Used in the proper circumstances, we are required to trust God with things. If we don't, and look to our own wisdom or abilities, that would be a lack of faith, no?

Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

Of course, anyone trying to apply "faith" to a circumstance where God has not instructed us to rely upon Him, is not doing things correctly and it isn't really faith. Like if you have fallen out of an airplane but happen to be holding a parachute in your hands, you shouldn't "let go and let God", because He hasn't promised to catch people when they are falling to their deaths.

But under other circumstances the saying does work. Like letting go of anger, hurt, jealousy, and other things He says we shouldn't hold on to. "Let go and let God" can apply to the worry about finances and obsessing over troubles at work, but not necessarily mean letting go of your job and trusting God to feed you and your family with manna from heaven.


I guess what I'm getting at is that the saying only works under certain conditions for the Christian who's trying to apply it. I haven't read the book or understand the New Age application of this principle, but it seems like the similarities would be minimal.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

That idea seems pretty similar to the Daoist concept of Wu Wei, except that the latter has no need for a personified deity.

 

[Tobias]

...except that the latter has no need for a personified deity.

No need for a personified deity? Are you suggesting that they have similar goals as Christians, but achieve them in a more efficient manner because they are not burdened with the concept of God?

Perhaps that makes sense to you. But surly you have heard many Christians say, "It's not a religion, but a relationship." Without a "personified deity" the relationship is rather pointless, right? Kind of like having a marriage with no other person as your partner?

I'm not sure how you can have a "marriage" that is more efficient because it involves only one person. There are advantages to being single, and there are comparisons between a single person's experiences in life and a married person's. But they fall under different classifications IMO.


Personally, the reality of my deity is of more importance to me than my religion. I almost became a pagan when I thought He was a pagan god. But He uses the Bible and Christianity to teach me principles to live by, so that is the religion that I claim. So if what He takes the time to teach me happens to be similar to what someone else might learn from the wisdom known in another religion, who's to say which method is the more efficient? Often times it is best to have a wise teacher to guide you. Why wouldn't the person listening to the leading of the Holy Spirit learn the lesson quicker than the person studying it alone?

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

No need for a personified deity? Are you suggesting that they have similar goals as Christians, but achieve them in a more efficient manner because they are not burdened with the concept of God?

Basically, yes. (Although "similar goals as Christians" is perhaps the wrong turn of phrase. The way I see it, Christianity is all about saving oneself from the wrath of a vengeful Father-archetype - and that is not Daoism's goal at all. Instead, they aim for a harmony of being, flowing like water instead of struggling against the stream.)

Perhaps that makes sense to you. But surly you have heard many Christians say, "It's not a religion, but a relationship." Without a "personified deity" the relationship is rather pointless, right? Kind of like having a marriage with no other person as your partner?

Please. That phrase and the mentality behind it is one of the worst things that came out of evangelicals trying to pander to the spirit of the Hippie generation and their disdain for all kinds of organized religion.
Christianity is quite literally the dictionary definition of a religion, serving as the primary model for the entry you'll find in any encyclopaedia in the west.

If you said that Christianity was "a religion that focuses on a personal relationship", or "not only a religion, but also a personal relationship", you'd be saying pretty much the same thing without having to be dishonest (or deluded) about it.

I can see your point, though: if what you are believing in is a personal deity, and what you are seeking is a personal relationship with the same, then trying to be "one with the flow" won't cut it.

We are talking about a very specific spiritual practice, though: one that urges people to "let go" and BE "one with the flow" - and in that, there is indeed a strong resemblance between Wu Wei and the practice outlined by the OP.
I'm not sure how you can have a "marriage" that is more efficient because it involves only one person. There are advantages to being single, and there are comparisons between a single person's experiences in life and a married person's. But they fall under different classifications IMO.


Personally, the reality of my deity is of more importance to me than my religion. I almost became a pagan when I thought He was a pagan god. But He uses the Bible and Christianity to teach me principles to live by, so that is the religion that I claim. So if what He takes the time to teach me happens to be similar to what someone else might learn from the wisdom known in another religion, who's to say which method is the more efficient? Often times it is best to have a wise teacher to guide you. Why wouldn't the person listening to the leading of the Holy Spirit learn the lesson quicker than the person studying it alone?[/QUOTE]

 

[Tobias]

I can see your point, though: if what you are believing in is a personal deity, and what you are seeking is a personal relationship with the same, then trying to be "one with the flow" won't cut it.

Ok, that's where it's different. "One with the flow" is definitely another concept completely. Like I said, I'm not sure what the other religions teach in this regard.



And for the record, I wasn't trying to speak on behalf of all Christians, just my little corner of the religion that claims that relationship is supreme. I know many of us tend to claim that "All real Christians act just like us", but that isn't the way I see things. It's late here and I tend to skip over steps in my logic even when I'm fully awake, so please forgive me!

Other denominations might teach something very similar to these other religions. IDK.

 

[Illuminaughty]

This is Wu -Wei :
​

"For that reason,
the wise person does without doing,
and teaches without talking.
Creating, but not by his own will.
Working, but not taking credit for it.
Work is done and then forgotten.
That is why it lasts forever."
​

-Tao Te Ching
​

 

[SuperBeaver]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Some interesting things being said.

I was asked to clarify by Foghorn on what I mean exactly and I can see why, because there are definitely different ideas on what this phrase means. You may find the view I allude to is certainly very different.

Before I explain, I will say that I do feel that the teachers of the two mentioned techniques do tend to pander to many different religions and points of view, or if not pander, pull them into a universal view of things. They do claim all religions are essentially about the same thing using different words and understandings. So that will be at odds with most Christian views I imagine.

They really talk about an almost radical reliance on God. Now, I've used the word God, but that's not the only word they use. Since the roots of the "cult"/ "method" is Neo Advaita it's pantheistic. So they see God as being your essential self, all beings as one and at the same time seperate.

Now they say, whenever you let go, of a thought/ feeling/ desire - anything. You're letting go of your ego (small i) and allowing God (Big I) to take over. Because, they say, that the only thing stopping God from being you entirely is your ego getting in the way. Then they say, anything is possible, because God is infinite and has no limitations.

So if you take the parachute example that was used. If you surrendered to God, they would say that God would act through you and pull the cord. They describe it as being your beingness. You don't see yourself as the doer.

In fact, there is an exercise where you are asked to surrender everything to your beingness (or God), all your problems, all your worries, everything that needs to be done, even your body and physical actions.

In addition, the point about trusting god with faith when there are problems. They would argue that you don't have the conviction in God if you see problems. They use the formula, God is All, God is perfect, therefore everything is perfect. They say it's the ego that judges it to be imperfect. Therefore, if you see imperfections in the world, you don't truly have a conviction of God.

They then say, that if you truly let go of seeing the problem (ego) then the issue will right itself (beingness).

Now, if I get to the point of why I asked. I was relatively indoctrinated with this stuff and I can see how it's at odds with Christianity. I can see from many of your replies that in fact, "Let go and let God" in Christianity is interpreted as meaning developing a relationship with God and it isn't seen that simply letting go of your ego would be enough for God to then take over.

I guess some Christians might even see it as potentially opening yourself up for manipulation by malevolent forces, either wordly or super natural. Am I right with this? I have read from Christians, that this sort of activity is potentially causing dissociation and that in turn makes your more easily manipulated. In a similar way to TM.

Sorry for the rather rambling message, I am in a bit of rush atm and thanks for any further replies.

 

[Tobias]

I guess some Christians might even see it as potentially opening yourself up for manipulation by malevolent forces, either wordly or super natural. Am I right with this? I have read from Christians, that this sort of activity is potentially causing dissociation and that in turn makes your more easily manipulated. In a similar way to TM.

Some Christians are paranoid and think that absolutely everything in life leads to demonic possession. So yes, there are some who would think that opening yourself up would do so immediately.

I don't agree with them. I think a lot of it depends upon the person's individual situation. We are not all alike. For some, they are plagued by demonic spirits, and constantly have to keep guard against them. If they don't, then they are driven by lusts, fears, or desires that don't necessarily appeal to them but they are relentlessly tempted to fulfill. A person in this situation that simply tried to "let go and let god" would stop resisting the suggestions of these demons and might not be able to control themselves.

Perhaps that would be another example of a misapplication of the principle though. Similar to letting go of your job or stopping the fight to keep your house clean. We all have to do certain things to keep order in our lives, and to stop doing so while eliminating the "let God" part (however you define it) is not wise under any circumstance.

 

[Eyes wide Open]

Hi

I'm relatively new to the forums, I haven't posted that much and took me a while to figure out which area of the forum to even post in!

Anyway, a long story short, I've been involved in various "new age" type practices and have recently been reading about Christianity, primarily because of Dr Lane Craig's debates and an interest in the Eastern Orthodox - of which the mystical element appealed to me (rightly or wrongly).

Anyway, one of the practices I took to heart the most and practiced for a few years was something called the "Sedona Method" or "Release Technique". I apologise if I'm not supposed to refer to specific products and I promise I'm not a sales man.

Anyway, the techniques teach primarily to let go of feelings you don't want, in addition to other far reaching goals. Now whether this is possible or whether you're actually just giving into suggestions I'm not sure. However, once you get into it, it damn feels real enough, the letting go of good or bad feelings begins to be accompanied by pleasurable feelings and relaxation and the definite feeling of a release.

Although the techniques at their core do have a neo-advaita (hindu) type philosophy incorporated I can potentially see how a Christian might find use of the techniques.

One aspect that I think could apply to a Christian is the idea of surrender, letting go and letting god take over.

Now is that a Christian idea, is it compatible or is that a hindu concept?

Theoretically the technique might allow you to let go of your personal ego and allow god or the holy spirit to take over. Is that compatible with Christian concepts?

On the other hand, I might see how a Christian good see the technique as just another new age technique that might cause dissociation and that perhaps the ideas are not compatible.

I'd be grateful to hear various opinions on this and if you'd like any further detail please let me know. Thanks.

The below piece is something I posted on a Facebook page a while ago but I thought it leant itself to your above overview and also touched upon what Jane and Tobias were discussing. I can add to the intuitive part mentioned below which in relation to your post is 'letting go' of our thinking state (not all the time) and embracing our intuitive state which is where 'God' can be found. God is just a word but it has many mental associations that just to mention the word can have people asking you what 'you believe' and that you are to call yourself something, and by doing so can sometimes mean that the 'letting go' is lost.


Going with the flow

I use this statement a fair bit.....that I 'go with the flow'. This statement in general gets misconstrued to mean a 'chilled out' or 'mellow state' where you are perhaps detached and/or removed from life. To go with the flow is to be fully present 'aware' and 'ready'. But any 'flow' that you go with is often at odds with any structured agenda, or other peoples set agenda or declaration of 'this is how it should be'. So it can be, and is, a challenging 'state' to be in. It involves intuitive subtle signals that are easily overridden by our own ego, or indeed others. Going with the flow is a 'feelings' based approach to life, not to be confused with just surface deep emotion dictated by a fragile ego, but a deep seated aspect of self that moves beyond ego. This a true spect of self does not seek to eradicate the ego, but to work with and guide our ego self, moving us to areas of growth allowing the ego to strengthen and to understand the true nature of self, so that the ego can create from this true aspect of self. This strengthened ego is not 'strong' in the traditional sense of the word, but in this context it should be seen as unmovable, unshakable and solid in its devotion to this true aspect of self that is connected to the flow. There are no boundaries to this 'connected flow' element, no secure axes to lever from, no fixed point of reference to view and observe. It's a formless entity that will not be contained, it will not be boxed up and labeled, it cannot and will never be objectively defined, only subjectively experienced, such is the dilemma of living within a set framework of objective ideals because it is not a 'something' that anybody can give you, you have to live it to know it.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

One of the branches of christian ethical thought is called quietism. I think they let go and let god. On the other hand there is the god helps those who help themselves school. An african proverb says pray buy row away from the rocks. Muhammed said tether the camel first then pray rather than leave it to wander under Gods command.