Legislating Courtesy

[Quid est Veritas?]

Casualty/ER triage makes sense and works. I can't agree that social triage would work as well when government dictated. If left at the level of folkways and mores, great. The fact that societies feel the need to make laws for things that used to be 'common' courtesy should be a wake up call that something is deeply wrong, rather than accepted as a normal thing for governments to be doing.

As an aside, I once went into anaphylaxis and had to go to the hospital...fast. I knew about triage, but my brain was clouded from being close to dying and all that. I actually thought to myself, "wow, they took me right in, no patients in the ER today."

I like the idea of Social Triage very much. We can class people Red, Orange, yellow, green in descending order. Then have queues and parking for each; or if a small place, maybe a red/orange and a yellow/green queue.

So disabled people would be red. The elderly can be orange and temporarily a pregnant woman. Yellow would be normal working people. Green for teens and the unemployed, who have the world's time to stand around in queues. In this way, working people waste less of their off time, the elderly spend less time on their feet.

Currently you apply for disability parking discs, so this application can just be extended for Red service. Based on Age we can confer orange status to pensioners, as basically already happens at many places with discounts and so forth. Gynaes can issue temporary orange status to their patients. Yellow status cards can be issued and annually renewed by HR.

Maybe we can give people special dress or some form of badge, to show their social triage status. Maybe I should start a political party...

 

[Ana the Ist]

In Portugal, they recently passed a law giving "priority" to those who are elderly, disabled, pregnant or have a child under two years old with them. This means that in places of commerce, employees have to help someone in these categories before others.

Businesses are required to put up a sign saying they give priority to these people, and merchants who fail to give priority get fined. There are no special priority lines for these categories of people. They simply go to the front of any line/queue and get waited on first.

What do you think of this law? Should courtesy be legislated like this?

I don't know, I might be tempted to take small children with me wherever I went. Or maybe one of those life-like baby dolls in a stroller.

It seems to express the idea that the time of people in those categories is somehow more valuable than other people.

I would disagree and state that it's not the place of the government to even make such decisions for people.

 

[durangodawood]

Wow. That post must have really been right for the system to have tripled it.

 

[keith99]

I think the last time I waited an hour for something was at a roller coaster ride at Six Flags, and that was the last time I ever went to an amusement park.

That may well have been the last time I entered at Trader Joe's the Wednesday before Thanksgiving. For sure it was the last time I did so after 9 or 10 in the morning.

 

[Chesterton]

That may well have been the last time I entered at Trader Joe's the Wednesday before Thanksgiving. For sure it was the last time I did so after 9 or 10 in the morning.

I try not to leave the house during the whole holiday season.

 

[keith99]

I try not to leave the house during the whole holiday season.

What do you consider the Holiday season? I think some stores are already putting up teh decorations for Halloween. (Come to think of it I know they have been up for a while at Home Depot). I won't be surprised to see Christmas stuff within a couple of weeks.

 

[Chesterton]

What do you consider the Holiday season?

Well, as an Orthodox Christian, holiday season would refer to The Feast of the Nativity (Christmas), which actually starts and ends on specific dates, and it starts before Thanksgiving.

In secular terms, I guess I considered the Christmas season starting the day after Thanksgiving, but as a kid I remember it seemed like Halloween was the start of lots of stuff, just lots of fun holidays in Fall and Winter.

I think some stores are already putting up teh decorations for Halloween. (Come to think of it I know they have been up for a while at Home Depot). I won't be surprised to see Christmas stuff within a couple of weeks.

Yep, they had Halloween stuff out at my grocery store for at least a week now. Everything seems to get pushed up time-wise in order to sell, sell, sell.

 

[Doctor.Sphinx]

I don't know, I might be tempted to take small children with me wherever I went. Or maybe one of those life-like baby dolls in a stroller.

Wouldn't it be easier to forge a pensioner card? So long as you're not profiting financially from it, its not fraud. Same as those conveniently located disabled parking spots - how I love those. If only ineptness at parking within the normally small spaces was officially recognised as a disability.

The old age pensioner card forgery would also have the added benefit of people complimenting one on how young one looked for his/her age.

What the OP does mention, is that those who are elderly, disabled, pregnant or have a child under two years old with them get to move to the front of the line (in retail establishments, I presume). I likewise question why people in these categories are in a particular hurry that I'm not in.

Isn't it clear that these people obviously pay more taxes, so are entitled to be rushed through retail establishments, so they can get back to working at what they're good at - earning revenue for the State?

 

[Doctor.Sphinx]

I doubt any of this is nationally legislated, but it is locally enforced. Someone that doesn't look like a pensioner, could certainly not use their bank queues; and Mom & Tots parking gets clamped with a release fine, if no carseat in the car. It is really not that different from how a national initiative would anyway have looked.

I guess investing in that second hand carseat might just be worth it?

 

[Doctor.Sphinx]

I like the idea of Social Triage very much. We can class people Red, Orange, yellow, green in descending order. Then have queues and parking for each; or if a small place, maybe a red/orange and a yellow/green queue.

So disabled people would be red. The elderly can be orange and temporarily a pregnant woman. Yellow would be normal working people. Green for teens and the unemployed, who have the world's time to stand around in queues. In this way, working people waste less of their off time, the elderly spend less time on their feet.

Currently you apply for disability parking discs, so this application can just be extended for Red service. Based on Age we can confer orange status to pensioners, as basically already happens at many places with discounts and so forth. Gynaes can issue temporary orange status to their patients. Yellow status cards can be issued and annually renewed by HR.

Maybe we can give people special dress or some form of badge, to show their social triage status. Maybe I should start a political party...

Or the establishments could just employ some of those waiting in the queue with nothing better to do, so the queues move faster? Or maybe the government should legislate that whoever waits in a queue for more than 3 minutes gets the goods or services free? That would certainly end the situation where cashiers are overworked, and most people would be more than happy to wait it out for the 3 minutes...

 

[Chesterton]

Same as those conveniently located disabled parking spots - how I love those.

In my experience, I rarely ever see anyone pull into one them who doesn't get out and walk perfectly fine. Maybe 10% of the time I've seen them used by someone who actually seems to need it.

 

[Doctor.Sphinx]

In my experience, I rarely ever see anyone pull into one them who doesn't get out and walk perfectly fine. Maybe 10% of the time I've seen them used by someone who actually seems to need it.

Its actually pretty sad. Like you posted, when you try and legislate stuff like this, the people who actually need it don't get it, and their spots are taken by a greedy bunch of free-loaders who have the official certification. In my view, best just to leave the government poor, and leave charity (to those legitimately in need) up to the churches/Christians.

Where people have a genuine problem, I think other people are quite understanding.

 

[Holoman]

I don't think the government should be interfering in private affairs like this. You never know anyone's situation. On the outside, I appear to be a healthy man but I have chronic pain problems which are much worse when standing still. I have lived with this for years and had to stand many many times on public transport and just bear with it. I never give up my seat for people for this reason. I have no disabled badge and I don't collect any benefits for it. I just get on with my life, yet if I lived in Portugal I guess I'd have to start giving up my seat, or go through some lengthy process to prove I'm in pain and deserve a seat. It's ridiculous.

 

[Dave-W]

Well, living in a country which has these rules for public transport... it's never been a problem that I've observed. Seats are given to people who need them, and I have never - and I mean never - seen a scenario such as you describe, with selfish twits claiming to be sick when they aren't, just to get a seat.

It happens in the US frequently. They started issuing tickets to those who were fraudulently using handicap parking spaces about 15 years ago. The fines are pretty stiff.

Any time you have a system, someone will be trying to scam it to their own advantage.

 

[Dave-W]

You said it jokingly, but I have a theory that many of the differences between American and Australian culture can be explained by our convict-settlement past.

Australia was used as a penal colony only AFTER the 1776 Revolutionary War here deprived England of the Carolinas as a penal colony.

So part of our country had the same "past."

 

[Paidiske]

It happens in the US frequently. They started issuing tickets to those who were fraudulently using handicap parking spaces about 15 years ago. The fines are pretty stiff.

Any time you have a system, someone will be trying to scam it to their own advantage.

Ah, now, we do have that problem with disabled parking spaces. People seem to feel far more entitled to park where they please, than to have a seat on the train. Maybe train commuters accept that they may have to stand, but drivers don't necessarily accept that they may have trouble parking? I can only speculate...

 

[Chesterton]

Ah, now, we do have that problem with disabled parking spaces. People seem to feel far more entitled to park where they please, than to have a seat on the train. Maybe train commuters accept that they may have to stand, but drivers don't necessarily accept that they may have trouble parking? I can only speculate...

The thing I don't get is, walking is good for you, it's healthy. People can be so lazy, or entitled-feeling or something. I see a similar thing when someone causes a little traffic jam in the parking lot because they're sitting there waiting for someone to pull out so they can get their up-close spot. Can't tell you how many times I driven up to that situation, managed to get around it, parked farther away, and I'm walking into the store while they're still waiting for a parking place.