• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Legalized Eugenics

Oblio

Creed or Chaos
Jun 24, 2003
22,324
865
66
Georgia - USA
Visit site
✟27,610.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
WASHINGTON --A new advance in technology may mean a new setback for one group in the human family.

The recent announcement of a screening test that can identify unborn children with Down syndrome in the first trimester has raised the specter of even more babies with the condition being aborted. Already, doctors estimate about 80 percent of mothers who receive positive results for Down syndrome in the second trimester decide to abort their effected children, according to The New York Times.

Sponsors and researchers involved in the $15 million study involving more than 38,000 American women hailed the results, which found that combined blood and ultrasound tests are able to identify Down syndrome 11 weeks after conception, The Washington Post reported Nov. 10, the day the research results were released in The New England Journal of Medicine.

“This is a big deal for women,” the head of the study, Fergal Malone of the Royal College of Surgeons in Dublin, Ireland, said, according to The Post. “In light of this study, we should offer screening to all women in their first trimester.”

Pro-life bioethicists, however, decried the news.

“Prenatal genetic tests for Down syndrome are a way of drawing a bull’s eye on an unborn baby, targeting him for abortion,” said C. Ben Mitchell, a bioethics professor at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in suburban Chicago and a consultant for the Southern Baptist Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission. “Eliminating Down syndrome children through abortion is a particularly egregious form of eugenics.

“Routine genetic testing for disabilities will turn back the clock on all the advances we've made toward becoming a welcoming culture to people with disabilities,” Mitchell told Baptist Press. “What could be less welcoming than aborting children with Down syndrome?”

Randall O’Bannon of the National Right to Life Committee told The Post, “These tests appear to be used only to select babies for abortion, including as many as five percent who may not even have” Down syndrome.

The new test, which was funded by the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development, may produce not only fewer children with Down syndrome and other impairments but a reduction in research dollars for such conditions, some say. “If you can terminate pregnancies with a condition, who is going to put research dollars into it?” asked Nancy Press, an Oregon Health Science University professor, according to The Times.

Experts have said Down syndrome births should increase because of the greater age of women having children, but the number has declined instead, according to a study by the University of Connecticut Health Center. Estimated births of Down syndrome children in the United States were 3,962 in 1989 but 3,654 in 2001, The Times reported. It was projected there would be more than 7,200 Down syndrome births by 2001, according to the study. The explanation by experts is more pregnant women have had tests that resulted in more aborted children who have tested positive for the condition.

Down syndrome, which normally results when a person has three copies, rather than two, of chromosome 21, is the most common cause of developmental disability, according to the Down Syndrome Information Network. It can cause increased chances of such medical problems as heart abnormalities, vision and hearing problems, and infection.

From here

Lord have mercy !
 
  • Like
Reactions: DieHappy

loriersea

Well-Known Member
Oct 11, 2005
2,216
231
48
Detroit, MI
Visit site
✟26,071.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
I think the most striking thing about the statistics on DS babies and abortion is that 80 percent of DS babies are aborted, while only about 1/2 of the general population is pro-choice. What that means it that there are many, many people who believe that abortion is wrong, but STILL opt to abort a DS baby. To me, that says far more about how we view people with disabilities in this country than it says about abortion. Apparently, many anti-legal abortion people think that healthy fetuses are babies, while it is okay to kill (in their view) DS babies.

So, it's not an abortion issue. The question at stake here is not whether or not a fetus is a life. Considering that, given the statistics, pro-legal abortion and anti-legal abortion folks are about equally likely to abort a DS baby, what is at issue is the status of the disabled, not the status of the fetus.
 
Upvote 0

Oblio

Creed or Chaos
Jun 24, 2003
22,324
865
66
Georgia - USA
Visit site
✟27,610.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
levi501 said:
This is good news.
I for one would support aborting my DS child, especially if I knew of it in the first trimester.

On what grounds ?

When does a 'defect' or deficiency in your child become a valid reason to end it's life ?
 
Upvote 0

Oblio

Creed or Chaos
Jun 24, 2003
22,324
865
66
Georgia - USA
Visit site
✟27,610.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
What is sad is those who are suposedly compassionate towards the disabled and promote Special Olympics etc. will defend a persons 'right' to end the life of a member of the same disabled class of people because they are personally an embarrasment or burden to them.

There is a word for this ...
 
Upvote 0

Oblio

Creed or Chaos
Jun 24, 2003
22,324
865
66
Georgia - USA
Visit site
✟27,610.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
So, it's not an abortion issue. The question at stake here is not whether or not a fetus is a life. Considering that, given the statistics, pro-legal abortion and anti-legal abortion folks are about equally likely to abort a DS baby, what is at issue is the status of the disabled, not the status of the fetus.

I agree, it is stepped up a notch over abortion. I see it as a parallel to the Chinese policy of allowing the abortion of girls because they have no 'value' to society or their 'parents'.
 
Upvote 0

DieHappy

and I am A W E S O M E !!
Jul 31, 2005
5,682
1,229
55
✟41,607.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
loriersea said:
I think the most striking thing about the statistics on DS babies and abortion is that 80 percent of DS babies are aborted, while only about 1/2 of the general population is pro-choice. What that means it that there are many, many people who believe that abortion is wrong, but STILL opt to abort a DS baby. To me, that says far more about how we view people with disabilities in this country than it says about abortion. Apparently, many anti-legal abortion people think that healthy fetuses are babies, while it is okay to kill (in their view) DS babies.

So, it's not an abortion issue. The question at stake here is not whether or not a fetus is a life. Considering that, given the statistics, pro-legal abortion and anti-legal abortion folks are about equally likely to abort a DS baby, what is at issue is the status of the disabled, not the status of the fetus.
You're making an assumption based on a faulty reading of the numbers. Just because 80% of DS babies are aborted doesn't mean that 80% of the women have had an abortion. Trisomy 13 only occurs about 1 in 5000 pregnancies. If 100% of those pregnancies were aborted, you could still only claim that 2% of mothers favored abortion. There may well be people who profess to be pro-life and then rationalize an abortion, but then they were never really pro-life to begin with, were they?

I don't understand what you're getting at with the "it's not about abortion" claim. If you are ok with abortion, then what does the reason matter? It is less reprehensible to kill a handicapped baby than a healthy one? Does the presence of DS somehow change whether the fetus deserves protection? I think it is an abortion issue, one that sheds light on the fact that nearly every abortion done in this country is done for the convenience of the mother.
 
Upvote 0

Oblio

Creed or Chaos
Jun 24, 2003
22,324
865
66
Georgia - USA
Visit site
✟27,610.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
DH,

I think you are right, and it would be better to say that this is in fact a subcategory of abortion.

Whether a baby is aborted because he is handicapped, or the wrong sex, or the wrong height, not smart enough (and I believe all these days will come), they are all equal abominations. ISTM that prior to this, abortions occured irrespective of the particulars of the child. Now we are saying that one is OK to abort, another not, and we hide this selective murder under the PC euphemism of healthcare decisions.
 
Upvote 0

Tangnefedd

A Liberal Christian
Feb 10, 2004
3,555
26
76
✟33,900.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
My adopted son has DS, he is a fantastic lad and a joy and blessing to us all. He would have been aborted if his parents had realised he had the condition.

Having said that I do think that if it can be diagnosed in the first trimester then termination should certainly be permitted if the mother wishes it. Bringing up a child with this condition is not easy, and can put a tremendous strain on a family.
 
Upvote 0

DieHappy

and I am A W E S O M E !!
Jul 31, 2005
5,682
1,229
55
✟41,607.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
LouTheWicked said:
Good. I'd rather abort something that would go through life with DS with constant struggles of educating them and looking after them than let it live.
I'd rather abort something that would go through life rejecting the only path to true joy with the constant struggles that a faithless life brings than let them live.

See how easy it is?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Oblio
Upvote 0

feline

Regular Member
May 25, 2005
280
26
42
✟556.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Monica02 said:
Do all you pro-aborts out there believe that anyone should be killed if they are a bother to someone? Should people be killed if they become handicapped after birth?

I'm a fan of killing pretty much anybody. Especially John Stamos. He bothers me. Population control, baby!
 
Upvote 0

flicka

Contributor
Site Supporter
Dec 9, 2003
7,939
617
✟83,856.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
Monica02 said:
Do all you pro-aborts out there believe that anyone should be killed if they are a bother to someone? Should people be killed if they become handicapped after birth?

Most pro-choicers see a difference between a fetus and an already born living breathing person. Actually, almost everyone can see the difference. Why is it hard for you?
 
Upvote 0

Oblio

Creed or Chaos
Jun 24, 2003
22,324
865
66
Georgia - USA
Visit site
✟27,610.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Lycaenidae said:
I plan on getting my fetus(s) screened for genetic defects. I don't want to raise a child with disabilities. What's the point?


I don't want to raise a child with ... What's the point?

You'll make a great mother.
 
Upvote 0

Yusuf Evans

Well-Known Member
Aug 17, 2005
10,057
611
Iraq
✟13,443.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Married
What this all amounts to is a serious issue of prejudices against the physically handicapped and mentally retarded. It just goes to show how much people actually care about those who may suffer from disorders. WWJD is the question I'm offering to Christians.:crossrc: :groupray: :groupray: :groupray:
 
  • Like
Reactions: DieHappy
Upvote 0