Leftist Policy is Motivated by a Secular Worldview

tdidymas · Nov 3, 2024

Fantine said:
A culture of life is a culture of caring.

And once again I go to the "thou shalt and thou shalt not" types of Christianity.

While conservatives embrace the punitive ideal in ending abortion and other socially conservative areas of concern.

Liberals embrace the holistic ideal of providing an environment that reduces income inequality and help for parents.

Let's look at Tim Walz' state, Minnesota. Since he has been governor, feeding children, establishing parental leave, and being a very popular pro-family, pro-middle class leader, abortions have decreased 50%--despite no changes in the law (and despite some of those abortions coming from out of staters.)

State Health Data Reveals Who Is Having Abortions In Minnesota

In the meantime, my state has an abortion ban, and our queen-of-mean governor still manages to punish mothers who choose life. Shame on her!

Instead of helping women who choose life, she ended Medicaid benefits for them after 60 days--even though the federal government was paying 100% of their Medicaid care, and despite the fact that we have the highest maternal death rate in the country. Was she afraid they might get prescriptions for birth control? Doesn't she realize young mothers might be dealing with post partum depression and several physical dangers?

Let's stop abortion by paying attention to the thou shalts conservatives are not very good at doing--not punitive laws.

There are problems with the leftist narrative is that it is biased to the leftist agenda. Harris has declared openly that she intends to federalize abortion rights, which means that doctors who do not want to perform abortions will be forced to do so, or lose their license to practice medicine. It's in the guise of "health care," but murdering preborn children for convenience is not health care. The leftist immorality activists want the freedom to commit adultery, then want the freedom to kill the child resulting from it. It's as Peter wrote, "promising freedom when they are slaves of corruption."

I don't know what state you're talking about as your state, but in regard to Minnesota, there are less abortions because there are now about 90 pro-life centers helping with crisis pregnancies. I think you forgot about that because of your bias. IMO Walz had very little to do with that.

tdidymas · Nov 3, 2024

2PhiloVoid said:
Right. The Left borrows and adopts from Marxist principles. I get that. But this doesn't mean that the Right borrows and adopts only, or even accurately, the principles of Christ and His Apostles. .................................. we need to begin to recognize this on various levels.

So, politics, even politics in the U.S. isn't, and never really has been, an either/or, right or wrong decision. We have two wrongs from which to choose. Two wrongs are not acceptable positions from which Christians should be making important political decisions. It also CAN NOT be said that the issue of abortion is "THE" most important issue. It is destructive, but the MOST IMPORTANT issues are those that underlie and drive the sinful outcomes we see. It's THOSE issues that are most important.

And no................"the Right" is not more right than the Left. Each side as they are at the moment chooses to select out and and reconstrue those ethical principles they each think have priority, and when they do so, they also denature those ethical principles.

I don't buy this, Left VS. Right pseudo-choice.

It's really the only choice we have, unfortunately. You're either for conserving the freedoms established in the Constitution, or you are against it. In my mind, the left is socialist, fascist, communist, big bro govt, and everything contrary to sound reason. Example: the orgs who are proud of their communist agenda support Democrat candidates. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the agendas are equivalent. And in regard to the immoral part, when they say "freedom of speech," they are talking about providing LGBT porn and gender confusion materials for children in schools and libraries. But of course, they would never admit that in public.

Fantine · Nov 3, 2024

tdidymas said:
There are problems with the leftist narrative is that it is biased to the leftist agenda. Harris has declared openly that she intends to federalize abortion rights, which means that doctors who do not want to perform abortions will be forced to do so, or lose their license to practice medicine. It's in the guise of "health care," but murdering preborn children for convenience is not health care. The leftist immorality activists want the freedom to commit adultery, then want the freedom to kill the child resulting from it. It's as Peter wrote, "promising freedom when they are slaves of corruption."

I don't know what state you're talking about as your state, but in regard to Minnesota, there are less abortions because there are now about 90 pro-life centers helping with crisis pregnancies. I think you forgot about that because of your bias. IMO Walz had very little to do with that.

Private charities can help, and I am so glad they are doing their bit to help Walz in his transforming Minnesota into a supportive state for children and families. And gun-safe, too. If it weren't so cold, u
I'd move.

tdidymas · Nov 3, 2024

Fantine said:
Not being a fundamentalist doesn't mean that Christians are "play acting at being Christian."

I prefer the non-fundamentalist approach that connects faith to life today and looks at faith and the Bible in the context of all the truths and information mankind has discovered as they have evolved and grown--as all species do--because God did not create us to be stagnant. I imagine God rejoicing at our excitement and achievements as we conquer so many of the diseases and challenges in our world and as we learn so much more about the "man in the sky with a long beard" and that with each insight He becomes even more transcendent and miraculous.

And because science (e.g. evolution) is truth, God has led us to realize that the authors of the Bible wrote from their worldview with their limited knowledge, and that adjusting a 7 day creation to scientific truth makes God's creation even more--not less--miraculous.

Evolution is essentially an atheist philosophy. It's one of the major causes of the decline in our nation's education. The OP is talking about what motivates leftists, and humanism (the idea that the reason of man is able to solve the world's problems) is at the root. It is contrary to sound doctrine, in which the Bible says that all people are sinners and are not capable of solving the world's problems. But since they are ignorant of that, not having a Biblical worldview, they think their socialist ideas will improve matters. But in reality, it's quite the opposite. Just one example is that they accept the Marxist narrative of the struggle between the classes. That narrative always makes things worse, as history has proven.

tdidymas · Nov 3, 2024

trophy33 said:
Yes, you believe my suppositions are incorrect. However, neither Bible nor Christian creeds make any faith statements about it.

You are showing that you cannot adequately debate my points. I get that.

Fantine · Nov 3, 2024

All that Kool Aid is bad, you know. Filled with chemicals and additives, phony as the man who says he's not a fascist--just someone who aspires to be a dictator and will use fraud and advocate violence to achieve it.

RileyG · Nov 3, 2024

RDKirk said:
Correct. Two wrongs are two wrongs. But it does indicate the American government was never a Godly government. It's been unGodly all along, it didn't just become unGodly in the last few decades.

Agreed.

o_mlly · Nov 4, 2024

Fantine said:
Minnesota into a supportive state for children ...

Minnesota governor signs broad abortion rights bill...

I guess only the Minnesota children that are not murdered in the womb get support.

tdidymas · Nov 4, 2024

Fantine said:
All that Kool Aid is bad, you know. Filled with chemicals and additives, phony as the man who says he's not a fascist--just someone who aspires to be a dictator and will use fraud and advocate violence to achieve it.

And the lies continue... if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS.

2PhiloVoid · Nov 4, 2024

tdidymas said:
It's really the only choice we have, unfortunately. You're either for conserving the freedoms established in the Constitution, or you are against it. In my mind, the left is socialist, fascist, communist, big bro govt, and everything contrary to sound reason. Example: the orgs who are proud of their communist agenda support Democrat candidates. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the agendas are equivalent. And in regard to the immoral part, when they say "freedom of speech," they are talking about providing LGBT porn and gender confusion materials for children in schools and libraries. But of course, they would never admit that in public.

Wrong! In the same way that Jesus didn't align Himself with either the "Left" or the "Right" of His own moment in time, then neither should we.

So, no, it's not a forced vote for the lesser of two wrongs.

And no, it's NOT an EITHER/OR choice. Spare me your rhetoric. The freedoms, along with the Constitution, are unfortunately open to interpretation, so it's not always clear that either democrats or republicans are being the most virtuous in the Christian sense of the word when any of us allegedly supports those asserted claims of "freedom" which we all hold so close and dear.

The truth is, neither side is fully congruent with an outlook on life that reflects the will of Jesus. Let's not fool ourselves here like King Solomon did.

Fantine · Nov 4, 2024

tdidymas said:
And the lies continue... if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS.

What an appropriate characterization.of the Republican candidate, whose age-related mental decline has even mental health professionals concerned.

Fantine · Nov 4, 2024

o_mlly said:
Minnesota governor signs broad abortion rights bill...

I guess only the Minnesota children that are not murdered in the womb get support.

The solid South is where the living children suffer. Last in education, poverty, life expectancy.
Thank you, Governor Walz. Your compassionate programs have lowered abortions in your state by 50%.

lifepsyop · Nov 4, 2024

2PhiloVoid said:
Wrong! In the same way that Jesus didn't align Himself with either the "Left" or the "Right" of His own moment in time, then neither should we.

That is debatable... for example, the assertion of the ordered reality of Male and Female is popularly considered a "right-wing" issue.

But Jesus would have undoubtedly supported that position since his father is the one who made that reality in the first place.

2PhiloVoid said:
The truth is, neither side is fully congruent with an outlook on life that is reflects the will of Jesus.

That's undoubtedly true... but it would also be silly to claim that there is no way to discern which side is more clearly bent towards evil.

Christians should be equipped with this most basic discernment.

2PhiloVoid · Nov 4, 2024

lifepsyop said:
That is debatable... for example, the assertion of the ordered reality of Male and Female is popularly considered a "right-wing" issue.

And this makes republicans "more" righteous because they give lip-service to this (and then, behind the scenes, do with that ordered reality what everyone else is doing with it? .......... ................... let's not pretend there are no silent adulterers in and among Republicans just as there are among Democrats )

lifepsyop said:
But Jesus would have undoubtedly supported that position since his father is the one who made that reality in the first place.

No, that's incorrect. Your statement here about the purposes of The Father doesn't tell us the full story as to "why" He arranged it. Simply because the Lord authorizes a government to have place in the world and do such and such doesn't also mean He approves of it on moral grounds anymore than He does the Communist regime of China.

lifepsyop said:
That's undoubtedly true... but it would also be silly to claim that there is no way to discern which side is more clearly bent towards evil.

If we take the letters of Paul and James in hand, along with the Gospels, guilt for sin is applicable equally to all sides. It's only because we see 'sin' today through screens of gradation, screens of our own making, that we downplay our own political culpability. ..........."....well, that sin is worse than this other sin, and that other sin that they do bothers me a whole lot more than my own sin, so I'll condemn them but give myself a free pass."

lifepsyop said:
Christians should be equipped with this most basic discernment.

And so often, they claim to have that discernment, (like during the Reformation and Counter Reformation), but fail to actually "love their enemies" by changing and reducing down what "loving one's enemies" is supposed to mean.

Hardly anyone actually does "love their enemies," or even appears to be trying.

But you know what? As a Premillennialist, I'm not surprised.

o_mlly · Nov 4, 2024

2PhiloVoid said:
Wrong! In the same way that Jesus didn't align Himself with either the "Left" or the "Right" of His own moment in time, then neither should we.

I don't think the poster said that aligning with the "Left" or the "Right" was the issue. Rather the issue facing Christian voters is "Good" or "Evil". Jesus did align Himself in those regards. The policies pronouncements of the two candidates and past their performance tell us much about the probability of their future acts.

Fantine said:
The solid South is where the living children suffer. Last in education, poverty, life expectancy.
Thank you, Governor Walz. Your compassionate programs have lowered abortions in your state by 50%.

? Non-sequitur. Which of his compassionate programs lowered abortion? None. What lowered reportable abortions, if true, is more likely other causes, eg., chemical abortions.

RDKirk · Nov 4, 2024

o_mlly said:
I don't think the poster said that aligning with the "Left" or the "Right" was the issue. Rather the issue facing Christian voters is "Good" or "Evil". Jesus did align Himself in those regards. The policies pronouncements of the two candidates and past their performance tell us much about the probability of their future acts.

There is no "good" in this election.

Fantine · Nov 4, 2024

o_mlly said:
I don't think the poster said that aligning with the "Left" or the "Right" was the issue. Rather

? Non-sequitur. Which of his compassionate programs lowered abortion? None. What lowered reportable abortions, if true, is more likely other causes, eg., chemical abortions.

Just as punitive laws may just drive women to other states, or back alleys.
Believe what you want. I choose kindness.

2PhiloVoid · Nov 4, 2024

o_mlly said:
I don't think the poster said that aligning with the "Left" or the "Right" was the issue. Rather the issue facing Christian voters is "Good" or "Evil". Jesus did align Himself in those regards. The policies pronouncements of the two candidates and past their performance tell us much about the probability of their future acts.

In looking at the few details we have where Jesus is caught between His own Jewish people on one side, and Pontius Pilate and the Roman Empire on the other side, I don't see Jesus taking political sides either way.

Yet, I see fellow Americans doing exactly that.......................going one of two ways, and doing so with absurd assurance.

FreeinChrist · Nov 4, 2024

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Leftist Policy is Motivated by a Secular Worldview

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