Left and right all switched around

[Albion]

The media has been promoting unrestricted immigration as 'progressive', good for the country, we are all immigrants, moderate left and such.

I am moderate left and it certainly isn't moderate left, but the media will say anything to support their master's agenda.

The Koch Brothers?

 

[Acts2:38]

It sounds to me like your own stubbornness is keeping you from getting work, then. Most people in the world speak at least two languages because it’s necessary. Spanish is probably the easiest to learn, why not just do it?

It's not necessary in the field I do. Sorry. Banking, okay I can see that. Food service, okay.

Your saying I'm stubborn?!

What about the people who move to my native country? Who are the truly stubborn ones?

The guy that moves to your house and demands you speak the way he wants?
Or the guy who owns the house and wishes you speak his way when you move in?

 

[Belk]

The media has been promoting unrestricted immigration as 'progressive', good for the country, we are all immigrants, moderate left and such.

I am moderate left and it certainly isn't moderate left, but the media will say anything to support their master's agenda.

It certainly isn't left because it harms those of us with lower incomes by increasing competition for low skilled jobs and for lower priced rental housing.

Not that I have seen. Quote them please.

 

[Belk]

It's not necessary in the field I do. Sorry. Banking, okay I can see that. Food service, okay.

Your saying I'm stubborn?!

What about the people who move to my native country? Who are the truly stubborn ones?

The guy that moves to your house and demands you speak the way he wants?
Or the guy who owns the house and wishes you speak his way when you move in?

Your two claims are at odds. Either it is a requirement and you did not get the job because of it or it is not and the reason you did not get the job is something else.

 

[Speedwell]

It's not necessary in the field I do. Sorry. Banking, okay I can see that. Food service, okay.

Yet you say you have been denied jobs because you don't speak any Spanish. If a significant number of those in your field speak Spanish, then it seems like it would be necessary.

Your saying I'm stubborn?!

What about the people who move to my native country? Who are the truly stubborn ones?

It cuts both ways. I'm in workforce development training, which includes ESL. All of the ESL programs I am aware of are full to the brim with long waiting lists.

The guy that moves to your house and demands you speak the way he wants?
Or the guy who owns the house and wishes you speak his way when you move in?

If he's here legally then it's not your house he's moving into, it's a country that you are sharing.

 

[Sparagmos]

It's not necessary in the field I do. Sorry. Banking, okay I can see that. Food service, okay.

Your saying I'm stubborn?!

What about the people who move to my native country? Who are the truly stubborn ones?

The guy that moves to your house and demands you speak the way he wants?
Or the guy who owns the house and wishes you speak his way when you move in?

You’re the one who said you couldn’t get work because of not speaking Spanish, so clearly it is necessary, albeit you may think the reasons are not valid.

I don’t know why moving to the U.S. is an act of stubbornness, which is an unwillingness to change.

Yes, I think it is stubborn not to adapt to circumstances in order to make a living. The only person you’re hurting is yourself (and your family). If we only adapted to change we agreed with we’d all be dead.

 

[MorkandMindy]

Not that I have seen. Quote them please.

Your wish has come true, someone posted exactly that just an hour later:


why is the middle class for increased immigration and the low incomes against?

Post 26

 

[Belk]

Your wish has come true, someone posted exactly that just an hour later:


why is the middle class for increased immigration and the low incomes against?

Post 26

It is a link to a report on the economic impact of immigration. It makes no claims on unrestricted immigration let alone that it is progressive and good for the country. More over it specifically focused on the last 20 years where immigration was very much restricted. I do not see how this supports your contention.

 

[Acts2:38]

Your two claims are at odds. Either it is a requirement and you did not get the job because of it or it is not and the reason you did not get the job is something else.

Yet you say you have been denied jobs because you don't speak any Spanish. If a significant number of those in your field speak Spanish, then it seems like it would be necessary.

I know it sounds screwy to you, however, Spanish is not necessary to the construction field I belong to.

I worked it for 10 years in California. If there was any place it would be necessary, that would be one right? It's not necessary.

I move to Florida, and suddenly it's impossible. Though I have noticed one thing, but I wont mention it as that would only be my observation for this particular area and I cant say that it is total fact.

No, it isnt necessary when you have virtually no customer interaction. All you need is the boss to tell me where I need to go and what I need to do and how much time I have to do it in.

If he's here legally then it's not your house he's moving into, it's a country that you are sharing.

Usually, when you go to a country, you try to learn their language so that you can deal with them, not the other way around.

I don’t know why moving to the U.S. is an act of stubbornness, which is an unwillingness to change.

I didnt say moving to a country was stubborn. You misread.

I said it is stubborn to move to a country and force them to cater to your language by your stubbornness to not learn their language. Their unwillingness to change.

How is that so hard to understand?

Yes, I think it is stubborn not to adapt to circumstances in order to make a living. The only person you’re hurting is yourself

I'm not hurting. I've found other ways around this. I'm just sadden a bit of my investment into a particular field is not obtainable at this point in time.

For everyones information though, I am not opposed to learning other languages. I dont particularly care for Spanish as a language, but not opposed to learning it.

The problem is when I moved to my new location, suddenly its a requirement. I don't feel like it should be as I got along perfectly fine in CA. Now I have to try to find time to learn it and fork over my cash to learn a language to get a job that should not require it.

And you know, all the workers in that industry that I refer to... that dont know a spot of English when I come to ask them questions. How is that fair you all? So long as they know spanish, forget speaking english?! How do you answer that?

 

[Speedwell]

I move to Florida, and suddenly it's impossible. Though I have noticed one thing, but I wont mention it as that would only be my observation for this particular area and I cant say that it is total fact.

I think that may have more to do with Florida than with Spanish-speaking immigrants generally. You might find that you are dealing with people who consider themselves as in exile rather than as immigrants.

Usually, when you go to a country, you try to learn their language so that you can deal with them, not the other way around.
I didnt say moving to a country was stubborn. You misread.

I said it is stubborn to move to a country and force them to cater to your language by your stubbornness to not learn their language. Their unwillingness to change.

All of the ESL programs I am aware of (and I am in that business, as I said) are full to capacity with long waiting lists. However, I have never worked in Florida.

 

[Sparagmos]

I didnt say moving to a country was stubborn. You misread.

You said it:
“What about the people who move to my native country? Who are the truly stubborn ones?”

I said it is stubborn to move to a country and force them to cater to your language by your stubbornness to not learn their language. Their unwillingness to change.

You said people that “move to my native country” are stubborn. But I’m glad to hear that you don’t think all immigrants are stubborn!

How is that so hard to understand?

LOL

The problem is when I moved to my new location, suddenly its a requirement. I don't feel like it should be as I got along perfectly fine in CA. Now I have to try to find time to learn it and fork over my cash to learn a language to get a job that should not require it.

Yeah, add that to a bazillion other things that are unfair. No one is saying it “should be” that way. It just is. You should have been taught Spanish in school, since it is the second most spoken language in the U.S.

California is a bilingual state with a very large Spanish speaking population. It was initially explored and settled by Spanish speakers. We’re talking 400 years ago, which is likely earlier than your ancestors arrived in the U.S. So Spanish is just as much a “Californian” language as English is.

Edit: I just realized the new place is Florida. Same thing applies:

Spanish Florida - Wikipedia

And you know, all the workers in that industry that I refer to... that dont know a spot of English when I come to ask them questions. How is that fair you all? So long as they know spanish, forget speaking english?! How do you answer that?

They don’t know a spot of English and you don’t know a spot of Spanish.

 

[variant]

Yes, that's totally true.
In past when people argued politics I usually said 'do what the Germans do', and here you can see why:

View attachment 260048

The Germans aren't ideologically opposed to paying taxes, having a social safety net or using their money efficiently.

They also have a better take on healthcare, and if we adopted most of their policy's the republican party would weep thousands of tears that capitalism was dead.

They also aren't building air craft carriers to police the world.

The republican party's priority is the good of the corporation. There is no "switching around" as brutalizing illegal immigrants is a side show that will fix absolutely none of your problems.

America's problem is the corrupting influence of corporate money. Having taken over our political system and dictating what shall happen.

Donald doesn't fix the problem by not being for sale, he doesn't need to be sold on the idea, he is a willing shill.

 

[Acts2:38]

I think that may have more to do with Florida than with Spanish-speaking immigrants generally. You might find that you are dealing with people who consider themselves as in exile rather than as immigrants.




All of the ESL programs I am aware of (and I am in that business, as I said) are full to capacity with long waiting lists. However, I have never worked in Florida.

I appreciate your input/perspective.

 

[Acts2:38]

You said it:
“What about the people who move to my native country? Who are the truly stubborn ones?”

You said people that “move to my native country” are stubborn. But I’m glad to hear that you don’t think all immigrants are stubborn!

Then either I didn't put it correctly to the idea I intended or you misread it since I had an attached example of what I meant.

The WHOLE point is that "who is REALLY the stubborn one"?

The native system of predominately English spoken language
or
The people who move to the natives country and forces the native to cater to their language by stubbornly not learning the language?

In turn, who should conform? The native or the new comer?

I believe you know the answer but refuse to answer it so instead you belittle me. That's fine. I understand this world isnt fair. I do find it disrespectful for people moving here to make the natives cater to their whims on matters such as this.

You should have been taught Spanish in school, since it is the second most spoken language in the U.S.

Yup. "If you dont use it, you lose it". Even in CA, I had no need to learn it no matter what job I had.

They don’t know a spot of English and you don’t know a spot of Spanish.

I think you missed the point.

They have NO knowledge of English, yet they are hired for the job.
I dont know Spanish, yet I dont get the job.

Do I really have to explain that?

In a predominately English speaking area (90% only speak english in my area from a graph online), why are people who can only speak spanish prevailing over positions I apply for as an english only speaker?

I like the construction field I do, but I have managed just fine without it. My gripe is I have a lot invested in it and I am not available to do the schooling to relearn spanish or any language at this time.

I should thank you though for an opposing view. If everyone was the same, it would be boring.

 

[Belk]

I know it sounds screwy to you, however, Spanish is not necessary to the construction field I belong to.

I worked it for 10 years in California. If there was any place it would be necessary, that would be one right? It's not necessary.

I move to Florida, and suddenly it's impossible. Though I have noticed one thing, but I wont mention it as that would only be my observation for this particular area and I cant say that it is total fact.

No, it isnt necessary when you have virtually no customer interaction. All you need is the boss to tell me where I need to go and what I need to do and how much time I have to do it in.



<Snip>

This does not resolve your dilemma. Either Spanish is a requirement or it is not. If it is not a requirement then the reason you are not getting jobs has nothing to do with Spanish.

 

[Acts2:38]

This does not resolve your dilemma. Either Spanish is a requirement or it is not. If it is not a requirement then the reason you are not getting jobs has nothing to do with Spanish.

I was also pointing out the how unfair it was to hire those who only speak spanish yet get the job in a community that is 90% english speaking only.

However, I do see what your saying and understand the "fact of the matter". I was just bring to attention that it is actually not necessary in the grand scheme of things.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Interesting paper on how the Senate votes - either favoring the poor or the wealthy. Looks like the Republicans are the party of the wealthy.

"The poor get what they want more often from Democrats. The rich get what they want more often from Republicans, but only if Republican constituents side with the rich."

As many of us have pointed out, the Republicans have done a fantastic job of getting their poorer constituents to vote against their own interests.

"Combining the relatively moderate pro-poor Democratic bias and the larger pro-rich bias of the Republicans, the result is a party system that over the last two decades favors the affluent

Republican partisanship is the key to understanding modern affluent influence."


Graph link