Led to Repentance?

[catholichomeschooler]

Titus 2, appeared to all men, that means jesw, greeks, romans, english, spaniard, indonesians, there will be some from every tribe of men in heaven.
Paul is writing about saved persons who Jesus has redeemed and purifies for Himself, for His sake.


2 Peter 3, if you not again pulling ideas out of the context of scripture has to do with the beloved elect that God has called, not the world. The beloved elect is who God is not willing any persish but that all repent and believe.

This is your opinion, but it is not what scripture says.

All men means means all men, not every color of men.

Everyone means everyone, not some.

 

[sdowney717]

John 12:32, Jesus draws all men to Himself. Jesus does draw men like the Father, Jesus makes all those whom He will spiritually alive.

Jesus also draws all men to the judgement seat, and divides sheep from goat.
John 5

21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will.

 

[sdowney717]

This is your opinion, but it is not what scripture says.

All men means means all men, not every color of men.

Everyone means everyone, not some.

No that is the reformed opinion.

2:11 the grace of God. The unmerited compassion of God.

has appeared. That is, in Jesus Christ (3:4, 6; 2 Tim. 1:10).

bringing salvation. God’s purpose in extending grace to sinners is their salvation (3:4–7; 2 Tim. 1:9).

all people. All types of people, regardless of gender, age, or social

Problem is you also cherry picks verses out of context. Ignoring the ones that refute your view such as Roman 8, 9, 10, 11 and so many more.

 

[catholichomeschooler]

John 12:32, Jesus draws all men to Himself. Jesus does draw men like the Father, Jesus makes all those whom He will spiritually alive.

Jesus also draws all men to the judgement seat, and divides sheep from goat.
John 5

Jesus draws all men, but not all come.

This is not God's fault, is is man's choice.

God wants all men to repent.

Ezekiel 18:32
For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

 

[Skala]

Jesus draws all men, but not all come.

This is not God's fault, is is man's choice.

God wants all men to repent.

Ezekiel 18:32
For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

I think you're taking John 12:32 out of context. In context, some Greeks had just approached, wanting to see Jesus. Thus it is said that all men (both Jews and Greeks - not just Jews) are drawn to Jesus.

All individuals are not drawn to Jesus, per Jesus own teaching in John chapter 6. He specifically said that the reason some people were still in unbelief despite his miracles is because the Father did not grant it to them to come to Jesus (6:44, 65)

 

[catholichomeschooler]

I think you're taking John 12:32 out of context. In context, some Greeks had just approached, wanting to see Jesus. Thus it is said that all men (both Jews and Greeks - not just Jews) are drawn to Jesus.

All individuals are not drawn to Jesus, per Jesus own teaching in John chapter 6. He specifically said that the reason some people were still in unbelief despite his miracles is because the Father did not grant it to them to come to Jesus (6:44, 65)

It does not say (both Jews and Greeks-not just Jews). That's why you put in in parentheses. It says ALL MEN will be drawn to Jesus because that is what it means. Reformed theologians change the words of scripture to fit their dogma.

For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that he may be merciful to all.
Rom 11:32

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 2:1-2

For since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead has also come through a human being; for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ. 1Cor. 15:21-22

Therefore just as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all. Rom. 5:18

 

[sdowney717]

catholichomeschooler, why are you so contentious about this 1 John 2 verse?
As if Calvinists have twisted it?

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Yes, the atoning sacrifice or propitiation for the sins of the world.
Jesus is the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world.

This only means that for believers who are scattered throughout the whole world have their sins atoned for, propitiated for. Salvation will go abroad to the entire world of men, not just that little area called Israel. That is what it means, the entire world. It does not mean universal salvation!

propitiate (prəˈpɪʃɪˌeɪt)
vb
1. (tr) to appease or make well disposed; conciliate
[C17: from Latin propitiāre to appease, from propitius gracious]
proˈpitiable adj proˌpitiˈation n proˌpitiˈatious adj proˈpitiative adj proˈpitiˌator n

pro•pi•ti•ate (prəˈpɪʃ iˌeɪt)

v.t. -at•ed, -at•ing.
to make favorably inclined; appease; conciliate: tried to propitiate the angry gods.
[1635&#8211;45; < Latin propiti&#257;tus, past participle of propiti&#257;re, v. derivative of propitius propitious; see -ate1]
pro&#8226;pi&#8242;ti&#8226;a`tive, adj.
pro&#8226;pi&#8242;ti&#8226;a`tor, n.
pro&#8226;pi&#8242;ti&#8226;a&#8226;to`ry (-&#601;&#716;t&#596;r i, -&#716;to&#650;r i) adj.
syn: See appease.

All this means is wrath of God is turned away for those who are in Christ.

But for those not in Christ, the wrath is not turned away. They experience wrath.
Those of the world do not have sins atoned or propitiated for. To say that your twisting the meaning of the words.
Jesus is the one who saves us from the wrath to come.
1 Thess 1

10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

versus unbelievers

John 3

35 The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand.

36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.&#8221;

Your interpretation is no magic bullet into the heart of Calvinism.

 

[catholichomeschooler]

catholichomeschooler, why are you so contentious about this 1 John 2 verse?
As if Calvinists have twisted it?



Yes, the atoning sacrifice or propitiation for the sins of the world.
Jesus is the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world.

This only means that for believers who are scattered throughout the whole world have their sins atoned for, propitiated for. Salvation will go abroad to the entire world of men, not just that little area called Israel. That is what it means, the entire world. It does not mean universal salvation!



All this means is wrath of God is turned away for those who are in Christ.

But for those not in Christ, the wrath is not turned away. They experience wrath.
Those of the world do not have sins atoned or propitiated for. To say that your twisting the meaning of the words.
Jesus is the one who saves us from the wrath to come.
1 Thess 1


versus unbelievers

John 3


Your interpretation is no magic bullet into the heart of Calvinism.

You are giving us Calvinist doctrine, but you are changing the words of scripture to do so.


God wants all men to be saved. Jesus is drawing all men to himself.

That's what the bible says and that's what I believe.

Acts 10
Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.

 

[sdowney717]

You are giving us Calvinist doctrine, but you are changing the words of scripture to do so.


God wants all men to be saved. Jesus is drawing all men to himself.

That's what the bible says and that's what I believe.

Acts 10
Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.

Well let me also quote from Acts 13, which also is confirming 1 John 2.
v48, as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.

46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

v48 NKJV says

48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

All those ordained - appointed to ETERNAL LIFE believed, it does not say all those who believed where appointed to eternal life.

Who shall we believe, the word of the Lord or man?

 

[sdowney717]

Greek Lexicon :: G5021 (NKJV)

Look up appointed ordained and see how it is used in context as ordained of God, designated, appoint ordain order station place
BibleGateway - Quick search: appointed

a clear example where NKJV also uses appointed.
Mark 3:14
Then He appointed twelve, that they might be with Him and that He might send them out to preach,

 

[catholichomeschooler]

Greek Lexicon :: G5021 (NKJV)

Look up appointed ordained and see how it is used in context as ordained of God, designated, appoint ordain order station place
BibleGateway - Quick search: appointed

a clear example where NKJV also uses appointed.
Mark 3:14
Then He appointed twelve, that they might be with Him and that He might send them out to preach,

Yes, and one of the 12 appointed was Judas.

God does not stop us from leaving his good graces. We must strive for holiness.

 

[sdowney717]

Yes, and one of the 12 appointed was Judas.

God does not stop us from leaving his good graces. We must strive for holiness.

Yes, but why was Judas an unbeliever in Christ?
For what reason?
Scripture tells us the reason.
Long ago Judas was appointed-ordained to be what he was to fulfill the words the Lord has spoken..

 

[catholichomeschooler]

Yes, but why was Judas an unbeliever in Christ?
For what reason?
Scripture tells us the reason.
Long ago Judas was appointed-ordained to be what he was to fulfill the words the Lord has spoken..

God knows the future. He doesn't make us choose evil.

 

[sdowney717]

God knows the future. He doesn't make us choose evil.

We are evil! That is all persons all over are guilty before God. He does not have to make us do anything.
After the fall, Satan became our spiritual father.
Unless He has mercy on you for you to know the truth, you will remain blinded by the devil and perish in hell fire.
2 Cor 4

3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. 5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus&#8217; sake. 6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

God has shone His light into our hearts and so we then believe, otherwise we remain blinded, perishing and dead.

 

[catholichomeschooler]

We are evil! That is all persons all over are guilty before God. He does not have to make us do anything.
After the fall, Satan became our spiritual father.
Unless He has mercy on you for you to know the truth, you will remain blinded by the devil and perish in hell fire.
2 Cor 4


God has shone His light into our hearts and so we then believe, otherwise we remain blinded, perishing and dead.

Grace enables us to choose to do good.

That's why we pray, 'thy will be done' and 'lead us not into temptation'.

With the power of the blood of Jesus we can overcome sin.

Jesus stands at the door of every heart and knocks. It is our decision whether or not to let him in.

When a man is condemned to Hell, it is his own fault, not God's.

 

[Skala]

It does not say (both Jews and Greeks-not just Jews). That's why you put in in parentheses. It says ALL MEN will be drawn to Jesus because that is what it means. Reformed theologians change the words of scripture to fit their dogma.

For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that he may be merciful to all.
Rom 11:32

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 2:1-2

For since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead has also come through a human being; for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ. 1Cor. 15:21-22

Therefore just as one man&#8217;s trespass led to condemnation for all, so one man&#8217;s act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all. Rom. 5:18

Surely a scholarly Bible student like yourself is aware that the word "pas" (where we get the word "all") doesn't always mean each and every individual?

Seriously, check the definition of the word. One of the definitions of "pas" is "some of all types"

Pas - New Testament Greek Lexicon - New American Standard

How do you know the author wasn't employing this definition when he wrote the phrase "all men"?

You just assume, without further investigation, that by "pas" (all men) he means every single individual without exception.

Why do you assume that? Have you even taken a step back and looked and thought about that question?

Also, I find it funny that you went out of your way to paste back to back to back a bunch of Bible verses that use the word "pas", when the Greek experts themselves (in the link I provided you) went out of their way to show that language like this is figurative!

Pretty funny

Right in the definition itself, it says:
"... "the whole world has gone after him" Did all the world go afterChrist? "then went all Judea, and were baptized of him in Jordan."Was all Judea, or all Jerusalem, baptized in Jordan? "Ye are of God,little children", and the whole world lieth in the wicked one". Doesthe whole world there mean everybody? The words "world" and "all" areused in some seven or eight senses in Scripture, and it is veryrarely the "all" means all persons, taken individually. The words aregenerally used to signify that Christ has redeemed some of all sorts-- some Jews, some Gentiles, some rich, some poor, and has notrestricted His redemption to either Jew or Gentile ..."

 

[Skala]

You are giving us Calvinist doctrine, but you are changing the words of scripture to do so.


God wants all men to be saved. Jesus is drawing all men to himself.

That's what the bible says and that's what I believe.

Acts 10
Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.

Friend, you seem like a smart person.

Aren't you aware that there is a difference between 1) changing the words of scripture and 2) pointing out that the words of scripture have different definitions?

Do you acknowledge this truth?

As I showed you above, the word "pas" (which means "all" in English) has not one, but TWO definitions.
Another example is kosmos, (which means "world" in English), has not one, but around TEN definitions.

Aren't you aware that nobody is actually changing the words of the Bible, they are simply pointing out that different definitions of that same word might be employed by the Bible authors?

In fact, this latter point is obvious. If you look up the Greek word "kosmos" and it's uses in the Bible, you will see that the authors of the Bible use around 10 definitions of the word. In other words, every time you see "world" in the Bible, it does not mean the author is using the same definition as the other places you see the word "world".

 

[catholichomeschooler]

Friend, you seem like a smart person.

Aren't you aware that there is a difference between 1) changing the words of scripture and 2) pointing out that the words of scripture have different definitions?

.

Of course.

Do you believe that God wants all men to be saved?

Do you believe that a man reaps what he sows?

Do you believe that God will give eternal life to those who pursue righteousness?

That's what the bible teaches, but it is not what Calvinists teach.

 

[Skala]

Of course.

So you are aware of the distinction, but you still argued and made accusations as if you weren't?

Interesting.

 

[catholichomeschooler]

So you are aware of the distinction, but you still argued and made accusations as if you weren't?

Interesting.

Your argument doesn't change the meaning of the passages in question. Your interpretation does, however.

The scriptures are clear, but their message contradicts your assertion.

God wants ALL men to be saved, not all colors of men.

Jesus draws all men to himself, not just some men of every group.