Led by the Spirit

[Aussie Pete]

Romans 8:14 states "For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God". The question arises, how does the Spirit of God lead us? God is Spirit (John 4:24) and spiritual thinks are understood spiritually (1 Corinthians 2:14). Those who are born again have a new, live spirit where God, Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit are pleased to dwell.

The Spirit dwells in the human Spirit, not in the soul. The spirit of man includes conscience and intuition. The unsaved have a conscience programmed by their culture, education and upbringing. Intuition in the unbeliever is mostly overriden by logic, reason or emotion. Logic and reason are easily twisted, invariably to program the individual to oppose God's truth.

The Spirit of God leads the believer in the intuition. It is the "still small voice" (1 Kings 19:12). Conscience is the monitor that tells us that our behaviour is wrong and intuition is the positive, leading us in the way that we should go.

Why does this matter? Intuition is never wrong. Neither is conscience. Most people know about the conscience, not so many about intuition. If we seek to be led by the Spirit, we need intuition to be sharp and sensitive to His voice. It is indeed still and small, not loud and demanding. Quite often we do something without realising that we have been led by the Spirit. There are times that we realise His leading after the event. We need to learn to discern this inner voice and learn not to allow logic or emotion to override it. This is a part of our spiritual growth. Don't be shocked if you are wrong at times. Emotion often seems like the Spirit. This is why the Word of God needs to separate soul and spirit (Hebrews 4:12) Ask God to help you. He is far more willing to lead us than we are to be led.

 

[AlightSeeker]

Scripture plays an important role in the Spirit leading us. Doing what scriptures say is also important.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Scripture plays an important role in the Spirit leading us. Doing what scriptures say is also important.

Of course. God does not contradict Himself. However, there may no Bible verse to cover a particular situation. I've got in trouble for ignoring intuition and greatly blessed by following it.

 

[oikonomia]

I do believe it is possible to have an over sensative conscience.
Two problems then are a hardened conscience on one side and an oversensative one on the other.

The being led by the Spirit in our regenerated spirit is learned by practice and proving.
This requires patience and time to learn. God will honor our trying and patient learning as we become keener in our disernment.

Practice - But solid food is for the full-grown, who because of practice have their faculties exercised for discriminating between both good and evil. (Heb. 5:14)

Proving - And do not be fashioned according to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of the mind that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and well pleasing and perfect. (Rom. 12:2)

 

[oikonomia]

Romans 8:14 states "For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God". The question arises, how does the Spirit of God lead us? God is Spirit (John 4:24) and spiritual thinks are understood spiritually (1 Corinthians 2:14). Those who are born again have a new, live spirit where God, Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit are pleased to dwell.

I think the term "the natural man" might apply to born again Christian who is too often deficient in setting the mind on the spirit.
Some of the Corinthian Christians virtually behaved as natural men. There is hope if we could grow. For certain one without
the Spirit being with their spirit via regeneration is a natural man.

The Spirit dwells in the human Spirit, not in the soul. The spirit of man includes conscience and intuition. The unsaved have a conscience programmed by their culture, education and upbringing. Intuition in the unbeliever is mostly overriden by logic, reason or emotion. Logic and reason are easily twisted, invariably to program the individual to oppose God's truth.

I think like learning of a child at a young age, the first thing often learned is the word "No."
Much experience in being led by the Spirit of Christ is learning "No."

Ie. What you are about to do? "No."
What you are about to say or go? "No."

In early spiritual wall, and latter also, much of what the Spirit is saying is "Do not."
This involves us also saying "No" to our natural tendency. This is to take the cross.
This is to enjoy something else instead - the peace of going along with the leading of the Lord in our spirit.

For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the spirit is life and peace. (Rom. 8:6)

There is no getting around it. The sense of life and peace is a feeling.
Uneasiness, darkness, restlessness, vanity, emptiness are all sensations signally no "life and peace."

The sense of the Lord's smile, His happiness with our decision is reflected in our heart by our own happiness,
helps us to develop a keener and keener sense of this divine life within and divine peace within.

Testing involves a pioneering attitude often. That is "Just what IF that is the Lord's leading? Let me try it."
The Lord will honor that I believe.

By longsuffering we can learn to be imitators of those more mature who hopefully are shepherding us by example.
That you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and long-suffering are inheriting the promises. (Heb. 6:12)

The Spirit of God leads the believer in the intuition. It is the "still small voice" (1 Kings 19:12). Conscience is the monitor that tells us that our behaviour is wrong and intuition is the positive, leading us in the way that we should go.

That is a great example. That is a great prototype of learing to think outside of our usual "box" and learning the intuitive voice in our conscience.

I am so glad for Elijah's experience for our learning.

In NT terms Paul said the peace of the Holy Spirit should be like a referee or arbitrator deciding many matters in our hearts.
And let the peace of Christ arbitrate in your hearts, to which also you were called in one Body; and be thankful. (Col. 3:15)

Why does this matter? Intuition is never wrong. Neither is conscience. Most people know about the conscience, not so many about intuition. If we seek to be led by the Spirit, we need intuition to be sharp and sensitive to His voice. It is indeed still and small, not loud and demanding. Quite often we do something without realising that we have been led by the Spirit. There are times that we realise His leading after the event. We need to learn to discern this inner voice and learn not to allow logic or emotion to override it. This is a part of our spiritual growth. Don't be shocked if you are wrong at times. Emotion often seems like the Spirit. This is why the Word of God needs to separate soul and spirit (Hebrews 4:12) Ask God to help you. He is far more willing to lead us than we are to be led.

The word of God is needed to learn more a sense of "Oh, this is the Spirit. Oh, but this is just the self."
So right after Paul exhortation to let the peace of Christ be the arbitrator and decider he urges that the
word of Christ should dwell in us richly.

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to God. (Col. 3:16)

We can see there is also the help of the atmosphere of mutual love and building up one another in fellowship.

 

[swordsman1]

Romans 8:14 states "For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God". The question arises, how does the Spirit of God lead us? God is Spirit (John 4:24) and spiritual thinks are understood spiritually (1 Corinthians 2:14). Those who are born again have a new, live spirit where God, Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit are pleased to dwell.

The Spirit dwells in the human Spirit, not in the soul. The spirit of man includes conscience and intuition. The unsaved have a conscience programmed by their culture, education and upbringing. Intuition in the unbeliever is mostly overriden by logic, reason or emotion. Logic and reason are easily twisted, invariably to program the individual to oppose God's truth.

Being "led by the Spirit" is to overcome the sinful desires of the flesh with the Spirit's help. The context of the verse makes that clear...

Romans 8:13-14 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.​

This is confirmed in the other verse that tells us to be "led by the Spirit", Galatians 5:18....

Gal 5:17-18 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.​

The Spirit of God leads the believer in the intuition. It is the "still small voice" (1 Kings 19:12). Conscience is the monitor that tells us that our behaviour is wrong and intuition is the positive, leading us in the way that we should go.

The "still small voice" that Elijah heard was a real audible voice. Not an intuition or a gut feeling.

1 Kings 19:12-13 "...and after the fire a still small voice. And it was so, when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle"​

The Hebrew word "heard" is the normal word for hearing with your ears.

 

[oikonomia]

Being "led by the Spirit" is to overcome the sinful desires of the flesh with the Spirit's help. The context of the verse makes that clear...

Romans 8:13-14 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.​

It is also to overcome the self.
That is to overcome the independent living apart from Christ who is able to indwell us.

We have more than ample confimration in this also.

I am crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. (Gal. 2:20)

I like that Paul immediately follows this with proclaiming that he does not "nullify" the grace of God.
The fullest operation of grace caused his old "ego" to die with Christ's death and his new "ego" to be united in life and living with
the resurrected Christ. Paul allowed grace its full unhindered operation, to deliver not only from sin but from self.

I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness is through law, then Christ has died for nothing. (v.21)

This is confirmed in the other verse that tells us to be "led by the Spirit", Galatians 5:18....

Gal 5:17-18 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.​

The "still small voice" that Elijah heard was a real audible voice. Not an intuition or a gut feeling.

1 Kings 19:12-13 "...and after the fire a still small voice. And it was so, when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle"​

The Hebrew word "heard" is the normal word for hearing with your ears.

I am glad that the profound significance of the Spirit's intuitive leading in man is first portrayed
to us as an audible hearing.

God's economy is exceedingly profound. We need the pictures of the OT. We need the "captions underneath the pictures" of the New
Testament. We need all the help we can get.

 

[Oneofhope]

Being led by the Holy Spirit also includes discipline. How does God discipline us? Doesn't it seem fair to suggest that we are led into difficult situations so that we might learn?

Hebrews 12:10-11 NLT - "For our earthly fathers disciplined us for a few years, doing the best they knew how. But God's discipline is always good for us, so that we might share in his holiness. No discipline is enjoyable while it is happening--it's painful! But afterward there will be a peaceful harvest of right living for those who are trained in this way."

It then seems fair to suggest that God influences our choices which leads to His Holy Discipline. What then, do we say about intuition?

I would also add that we will know that we are being led by the Spirit when we find that we are not in control of our lives. As hard as we might try, our human plans are thwarted by the Plans of God, and those Plans can never be altered.

Proverbs 16:9 NLT - "We can make our plans, but the LORD determines our steps."

Sometimes our hearts tell us that if we follow a certain plan or action, we will avoid hardship, yet inevitably, those same plans and "intuitions" lead to the hard and difficult Discipline of the Lord.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Being "led by the Spirit" is to overcome the sinful desires of the flesh with the Spirit's help. The context of the verse makes that clear...

Romans 8:13-14 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.​

This is confirmed in the other verse that tells us to be "led by the Spirit", Galatians 5:18....

Gal 5:17-18 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.​

The "still small voice" that Elijah heard was a real audible voice. Not an intuition or a gut feeling.

1 Kings 19:12-13 "...and after the fire a still small voice. And it was so, when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle"​

The Hebrew word "heard" is the normal word for hearing with your ears.

What is the Hebrew for hearing in your spirit?

 

[Dan2255]

The topic is led by the spirit. It is quite simple to know if one is led by the Spirit. When a person is accepted by the Father he puts within them his Spirit. The spirit is the characteristics of God himself. We see this as the fruits of the Holy Spirit that god has given us. Those who walk in the spirit are led by the spirit. John wrote if a man says he loves God God and hates his brother is a liar and the love of God is not in this person. One of the fruits of the Holy Spirit is the love of God in us. Now there are others fruits that we are given they are trust or faith as some say, patience, long suffering just to mention a couple. These fruits are within you as a gift from God. All those who walk in the Spirit are led by those gifts within you.

 

[AlightSeeker]

The topic is led by the spirit. It is quite simple to know if one is led by the Spirit. When a person is accepted by the Father he puts within them his Spirit. The spirit is the characteristics of God himself. We see this as the fruits of the Holy Spirit that god has given us. Those who walk in the spirit are led by the spirit. John wrote if a man says he loves God God and hates his brother is a liar and the love of God is not in this person. One of the fruits of the Holy Spirit is the love of God in us. Now there are others fruits that we are given they are trust or faith as some say, patience, long suffering just to mention a couple. These fruits are within you as a gift from God. All those who walk in the Spirit are led by those gifts within you.

Jesus seems the give the gift of the spirit to those who follow his words. We see this in John 14. Look also at revelation where Jesus seems to be promising himself as a reward to those who overcome and those who repent at his command in revelation.

 

[oikonomia]

Jesus seems the give the gift of the spirit to those who follow his words. We see this in John 14. Look also at revelation where Jesus seems to be promising himself as a reward to those who overcome and those who repent at his command in revelation.

Did you notice that the word "repent" is never used in John's Gospel?
John emphasisis "believe."

Here's a scripture song from John 14.

 

[Oneofhope]

Did you notice that the word "repent" is never used in John's Gospel?
John emphasisis "believe."

Here's a scripture song from John 14.

John quotes Isaiah:

John 12:40 NLT - 40 "The Lord has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts--so that their eyes cannot see, and their hearts cannot understand, and they cannot turn to me and have me heal them."

He states that Isreal cannot "turn." This implies Holy Repentance.

 

[AlightSeeker]

Did you notice that the word "repent" is never used in John's Gospel?
John emphasisis "believe."

Here's a scripture song from John 14.

No I don't think i did notice that.

 

[oikonomia]

No I don't think i did notice that.

It was once usefully brought to my attention by some ministry which discussed the difference
between man's concept of self reform, self improvement or "turning over a new leaf" so to speak, and biblical repentance.

The article taught that biblical repentance is simply a change of one's mind and thinking about the past.
That is to have a turn in one's thinking, philosophy about how one use to think.
The article said many have an idea of repentance being a promise to do better in the future.

Now I feel to revisit that article for a fresh impression of the speaker's points.
Fellowship in the Body of Christ is always so good either way.

I did find it significant that 2TG above also submitted the implication of John 12:40.

I noticed that when the Jews asked Jesus what they should do to do the works of God in John's gospel
Jesus said the workof God was to believe in Him.

Then they said to Him, What shall we do that we may work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said to them, This is the work of God, that you believe into Him whom He has sent. (John 6:28,29)

I simply wanted to emphize this is in particular seems as John's focus, to believe.
But these have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God,
and that believing, you may have life in His name. (John 20:31)

True repentance has its presence in the gospel of Matthew.
True biblical repentance surely has its place in the book of Acts.

 

[oikonomia]

Being led by the Holy Spirit also includes discipline. How does God discipline us? Doesn't it seem fair to suggest that we are led into difficult situations so that we might learn?

Hebrews 12:10-11 NLT - "For our earthly fathers disciplined us for a few years, doing the best they knew how. But God's discipline is always good for us, so that we might share in his holiness. No discipline is enjoyable while it is happening--it's painful! But afterward there will be a peaceful harvest of right living for those who are trained in this way."

Yes, the main point of all this discipline and leading is that He dispense His holy nature into man.
That is we partake of His holiness.

For they disciplined for a few days as it seemed good to them; but He,
for what is profitable that we might partake of His holiness. (Heb. 12:10)

For to be such partakers is why He created the universe (laying the foundation of the world) and marked out the destiny of His sons.

Even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blemish before Him in love,
Predestinating us unto sonship through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, (Eph. 1:4,5)

 

[Paleouss]

Hi Aussie Pete

Romans 8:14 states "For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God". The question arises, how does the Spirit of God lead us?

To me, you have presented a multitude of topics within your first post. For my part, I will present a more narrowed response. That being how the Spirit leads man in his choices. So I will be focusing on the man saved by grace that is led by the Spirit in one situation and not led by the Spirit in another situation.

I will first say...

Psa 143:10 Teach me to do Your will, For You are my God; Your Spirit is good. Lead me in the land of uprightness.

The Psalmist, when bringing up being led by the Spirit, includes the concept of 'teaching' (learning). So I agree with the person, whoever that was, that suggested getting into the word is a key component for the believer in being led by the Spirit.

Being led by the Spirit requires the life long consecration of submission. What I mean by "life long" is that submission is required daily. It is not just a one time thing, not talking about intitial salvation here. Being led by the Spirit requires a daily renewal of submitting to God (Jam 4:7) and denying ourselves (Luke 9:23). We must put off the old self and put on the new self, daily.

We can see ourselves being led by the Spirit when that fruitful-work, not to be confussed with works-fruitful, procedes from a relationship of Spirit/man in which the Spirit has laid before the will of man, through the man's submission to God, the spiritual desires and inclinations that make up the motive toward a spiritual path of fruitful-works pleasing to the Lord-Father, that the man saved by grace freely chooses. For a similar concept refer to, Johnathan Edwards "The Works of Jonathan Edwards: Volume I & II".

Peace to you and may the Spirit do a fruitful-work through you.

 

[Oneofhope]

The Gospel of John is, without a doubt, a mysterious Gospel, as it does not explain the Spiritual Circumcision of Jesus Christ, nor does it clearly mention the ability to Repent (a change of heart produced by God’s Spirit).

It is also interesting to note that Jesus Himself did not teach of His Spiritual Circumcision, the cutting away of the Sinful Nature. But does this mean that His Spiritual Circumcision is not part of the Saving Plan of Eternal Life? It is correct, that Repentance is also not clearly taught in the Gospel of John. But does this mean that the ability to Repent is not actually granted . . . a true Spiritual gift? What is taught, however, is that Jesus is the sender of the Holy Spirit. Lastly, the Gospel of John does not clearly teach that we must believe in the Resurrection and the Power that raised Jesus from the dead.

So, of the four primary Works of Jesus Christ, only one of them is clearly taught in John, the sending of the Holy Spirit. However, one of the most important and clarifying verses of the entire Bible is found in John 9:39-41 where it states that the Purpose of Christ is to give Spiritual sight to those who cannot see. This is clearly referencing Spiritual Circumcision, the cutting away of the Veil that covers the human mind so that it cannot Spiritually see, hear, and walk. This Spiritual Circumcision is one of the statements that Stephen made in Acts 7 that caused the Jewish leaders to stone him to death. I have never heard any teacher teach on this subject . . . a major problem.

John 9:39 NLT - 39 Then Jesus told him, "I entered this world to render judgment--to give sight to the blind and to show those who think they see that they are blind."

Acts 7:51 NKJV - "You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you.”

To conclude, nowhere in the Bible is the Saving Plan of Jesus Christ perfectly and wholly laid out. Instead, we are commanded to ask, seek, and knock on the door of God so that His Spirit will teach us all that we need to know. In other words, it is our obligation that we study the entire Bible, the Story and Gospel of Jesus Christ, so that by our due diligence, we can then come to understand the hidden and Mysterious Plan of God, a Plan that has been kept hidden since the beginning. Genesis 1 3-4 clearly talks about Spiritual Circumcision, the separation of darkness from light in the human heart. Paul explained this to us.

2 Corinthians 4:6 NIV - 6 For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of God's glory displayed in the face of Christ.

 

[AlightSeeker]

John quotes Isaiah:

John 12:40 NLT - 40 "The Lord has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts--so that their eyes cannot see, and their hearts cannot understand, and they cannot turn to me and have me heal them."

He states that Isreal cannot "turn." This implies Holy Repentance.

It seems like a mystery. Paul said that God cut them off and put us in their place to make them jealous. I suppose he does that to punish or to correct them. I'm unsure. But Paul goes on to say that we shouldn't boast against the branches because God can cut us off too. And he's able to graft them back in as well. So maybe God blinds us too like he did them. Maybe it's like I believe, he blinds us when we are not faithful like he did to them. But I dont know anything for sure. I'm walking by faith alone and i pray that I walk to right path.

 

[AlightSeeker]

Not that I should think highly of myself or boast in any way other than as scripture says. He who boasts should boast only in the Lord. But that's what I do now I believe. Not for me but for others. Perhaps God set me on a lonely path, to show people that God is our hope not man. To provoke their jealousy in hopes that they too will return to the Lord. I dont know but dont think of me as a fool who is boasting because im not. It's just somthing that came me and I said it. You be the judge if it's right or not.

Romans 11:31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has [h]committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!

34 “For who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has become His counselor?”
35 “Or who has first given to Him
And it shall be repaid to him?”
36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen