Leaving ELCA

MarkRohfrietsch · Oct 31, 2009

I like my WELS friends! I'm LCC, and am blessed with very confessional Congregations and Pastors in our Circuit. If this were not the case, and there was a WELS Congregation near by, I would indeed seek membership there!

A few years ago, my former Congregation had a very "liberal" Pastor, and I did look into WELS. The closest Congregation to me here in Ontario was about 300 miles away in Ottawa. Thank God, I found my present home.

Mark.

seajoy · Oct 31, 2009

Thanks for not looking at us (WELS) as alien beings, like the elca does, Mark.

MarkRohfrietsch · Oct 31, 2009

seajoy said:
Thanks for not looking at us (WELS) as alien beings, like the elca does, Mark.

Well, WELS is not alien! Confessional Lutherans seem to be an endangered species of late. We must support each other!

Besides, we were in fellowship at one time. A former Pastor, the late Thomas Photenhauer, went over to WELS (with the Congregation I mentioned in Ottawa), as did a former Son of our Congregation, Doug Priestap. Fine Pastors, and a credit to what ever Synod they serve!

JoeCatch · Oct 31, 2009

seajoy said:
Thanks for not looking at us (WELS) as alien beings, like the elca does, Mark.

I haven't seen any ELCA members on this board (or anywhere, for that matter) look at WELS Lutherans as "alien beings." Willy pointed out that there are huge cultural differences between the ELCA and the WELS--something that you yourself are often quick to point out, and frequently in the most uncharitable terms toward the ELCA. Those cultural (and, obviously, theological) differences are undeniably a reality, and there was absolutely nothing rude about Willy's having pointed that out. Willy described some of his experiences with former WELS members, and I didn't detect any disdain or condescension toward WELS in those descriptions.

seajoy · Oct 31, 2009

JoeCatch said:
I haven't seen any ELCA members on this board (or anywhere, for that matter) look at WELS Lutherans as "alien beings." Willy pointed out that there are huge cultural differences between the ELCA and the WELS--something that you yourself are often quick to point out, and frequently in the most uncharitable terms toward the ELCA. Those cultural (and, obviously, theological) differences are undeniably a reality, and there was absolutely nothing rude about Willy's having pointed that out. Willy described some of his experiences with former WELS members, and I didn't detect any disdain or condescension toward WELS in those descriptions.

You are right....it's impossible for Willy to be rude.

I am WELS and most uncharitable.

Glad we all have that straight now.

JoeCatch · Oct 31, 2009

seajoy said:
You are right....it's impossible for Willy to be rude.

I am WELS and most uncharitable.

Glad we all have that straight now.

Oh, please. Nowhere did I claim that "it's impossible for Willy to be rude," nor did I attribute your uncharitable reading of his comments to the fact that you're a member of a WELS congregation, as though your lack of charity toward him is somehow a reflection upon WELS as a whole. I won't speak for Willy, but if you want to read into what I write meanings that have absolutely nothing to do with what I've actually written, then so be it. I'll just continue to discuss and debate substantive issues with those who are willing to do so, and leave the petty, personal nonsense wars to those who have the time and inclination for them, because I don't. I'd much rather spend my time here discussing and defending the points that I actually do make than constantly sorting out from them the ones that I didn't.

Glad we all have that straight now.

QuiltAngel · Oct 31, 2009

Boy this thread has really gone off track. There is a great divide between the ELCA and many other Lutheran Synods (LCMS, WELS, ELS, AALC and others) that is not going away soon.

We have the OP, Ed, saying he is leaving the ELCA and I believe that he has not made this decision lightly. He has been on this forum a very long time and I know that he struggled with this. The fact that he is thinking of WELS says a lot about what he believes.

To those those who act like he does not know what he is getting into or things, I think he does. Why can't those in the ELCA accept and respect the fact that a member is leaving.

Willy, lets tell all sides of a story. Many times when one goes on about people who are joining there Synod, they relay all the things that support their views. It is my experience that many times, there are just as many going the other way.

Ed, I support you and your decision.

seajoy · Oct 31, 2009

Yes, sorry Ed......my feathers got ruffled when Willy slammed the WELS. Back to the OP.

QuiltAngel · Oct 31, 2009

seajoy said:
Yes, sorry Ed......my feathers got ruffled when Willy slammed the WELS. Back to the OP.

I would too Seajoy. One can state they disagree with someone without slamming or bashing.

Willy · Oct 31, 2009

I don't mean to be rude. I just know that we are talking about very different cultures here. That is just reality.

Edial · Oct 31, 2009

Willy said:
All I know is that when we had families who came from WELS to our place they had a lot of adjusting to do--adjusting they wanted to do and later really appreciated. The thought world of WELS had shaped them to such an extent that it was almost as if they had not been exposed to the modern world. This had been for them quite a self-contained world. In part I think, this was the nature of these two families. We had other people from WELS who were just so excited to "rebel." Finally, these folks said, a place where women as leaders were taken seriously. These folks would laugh about officially women were denied leadership roles but in essence were leading. They were grateful that now in our church people could live as things really were.,

Different people want different things.

I know a lady, an Assistant Director of Engineering in CBS.
She just retired.
She managed a whole bunch of male engineers. Hired, fired, gave raises, etc.
When it comes to church however, she understands that spiritual thresholds are there.
She refuses attending a church where women have spiritual authority over men.

She is intelligent enough to understand, if God established certain things in the Bible it is foolish to go against them.

Yet there are other ladies that choose to disregard these parts of the Scriptures.
Which is fine. I will not judge them.

I just find life way too complicated to bluntly go against the Bible.

But that's me.
You certainly are free to do as you wish.

Thanks,
Ed

Edial · Oct 31, 2009

Protoevangel said:
It is always sad to leave those you have grown to love. However, I respect and agree with your reasoning... I did the same years ago for much the same reason. I still visit my old congregation every once in a while, to let them all know they are still close to my heart.

I think you may like the WELS.

I plan visiting one WELS congregation in Jackson Heights in a week or two.

Thanks,
Ed

Edial · Oct 31, 2009

Studeclunker said:
Well done Ed! You'll find WELS to be a slight culture shock. Stick with it though and you'll also find that they take the Bible, Book of Concord, and the writings of Luther very seriously. They even like Walther.

I seriously doubt it will be a culture shock.

Our ELCA congregation was all liturgy, all hymns.

I like this type of stuff.

I clearly will not agree with 100 percent of what WELS teaches, such as limiting fellowship and prayer only among the members.
But I never believed 100 percent in any denomination and church I attended.

WELS has traditional differences? Fine.
As long as they stick with the Scriptures.

No church is perfect.

This is our temporary abode here, on Earth.

The real Thing is yet to come.

Thanks,
Ed

Edial · Oct 31, 2009

LutheranChick said:
Oh I'm sorry- I misread your post. But anyway, God be with you. It's a shame the others don't fully understand the problem. There is a time to shake the dust from your feet and move on.

Oh, I don't have a problem with dusting and shaking.

I do however sneak back in on Friday nights to lead the Bible study.

Our Bible study group was really shaken up when they heard I was leaving. And there are really some good folks there, Simple, plain, with a faith of a child.

I plan to lead it as long as the Lord allows.

My guess however, is that it might break up.

We'll see.

doulos_tou_kuriou · Oct 31, 2009

Godspeed as you depart. Sad to hear that this poor decision at minneapolis has caused another casualty among our synod. Indecision can truly be as devisive as taking a side. My prayers are that whatever church you now call home welcomes you and delivers to you the Gospel in its purity. I am truly sorry that ours could no longer do that for you.

Pax

Edial · Oct 31, 2009

doulos_tou_kuriou said:
Godspeed as you depart. Sad to hear that this poor decision at minneapolis has caused another casualty among our synod. Indecision can truly be as devisive as taking a side. My prayers are that whatever church you now call home welcomes you and delivers to you the Gospel in its purity. I am truly sorry that ours could no longer do that for you.

Pax

Thanks man.

Ed

Studeclunker · Nov 1, 2009

Edial said:
I seriously doubt it will be a culture shock.

Our ELCA congregation was all liturgy, all hymns.

I like this type of stuff.

I clearly will not agree with 100 percent of what WELS teaches, such as limiting fellowship and prayer only among the members.
But I never believed 100 percent in any denomination and church I attended.

WELS has traditional differences? Fine.
As long as they stick with the Scriptures.

No church is perfect.

This is our temporary abode here, on Earth.

The real Thing is yet to come.

Thanks,
Ed

You know... that's the one thing I miss the most from ELCA, the liturgical setup. The Liturgy was truely beautiful. The musical arrangement was bright and beautifully done. Sometimes, I'm tempted to sneak back for a fix. Then they pull something like what happened so recently...

Phoebe · Nov 1, 2009

Ed, I completely understand. I'll be praying that the transition is a smooth one. That you end up where God has called you.

I, too, am praying about transferring membership to a Christian and Missionary Alliance congregation. I will dearly miss many of the people that I used to attend with. I will visit again on the 15th. The Assistant to the Bishop of our Synod is coming to preach. There will be a question and answer session following worship. Since my "current" congregation is under an interim pastor, this seems like a good time to make a run for it. Pray for me, too.

Willy · Nov 1, 2009

I think sometimes it is necessary for people to find a congregation that meets their particular world view, unless, of course, they might be willing to have that world view reshaped and that the congregation that they are a part of can contribute to that reshaping. I would find it hard to be a part of a congregation or a church body that does not welcome the leadership of women or does take seriously the historical shaping of the scriptures or finds it hard to embrace the insights of modern science. I would probably find it necessary to leave such a congregation. Admittedly, I would have never joined it in the first place. So I understand that some people need to leave a congregation or the ELCA to feel that they are being faithful to their view of the faith. I wished that people would agree with me that views about human sexuality are not determinative of church unity, but many people don't agree. So I guess they must leave. Many who are leaving the ELCA will find that both the Missouri Synod and WELS will be phenomenally different from the ELCA and prob. will not be comfortable with what they experience there. But that becomes their concern, I guess--not mine.

QuiltAngel · Nov 1, 2009

Willy said:
. So I guess they must leave. Many who are leaving the ELCA will find that both the Missouri Synod and WELS will be phenomenally different from the ELCA and prob. will not be comfortable with what they experience there. But that becomes their concern, I guess--not mine.

Yes, that is the person's concern of what they do then. I suspect that those considering the LCMS or the WELLS or the AALC are doing so because it bring them back to where they were before the ELCA merger. We must remember that more than one synod merged to create ELCA..

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