Learning to Control Our Inner and Outer Troll

[SkyWriting]

Anyway, so since you're here, any thoughts, comments, concerns or insights you'd like to share on this topic in reflection on the article I've provided in the OP?

The issue is really the problem...not the symptom.
We don't care how they are trolling.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

The issue is really the problem...not the symptom.

That sounds like an interesting point. Would you care to expand upon it so as to make it more clear to me and to others as to what you're wanting us to take from it? Thank you.

 

[gaara4158]

Interesting topic, Phil! Full disclosure, I didn’t make it all the way through the list of troll “types” on your website, but I did find two that I can recognize in some of my posts here. The first would be contrarian troll, me being a nonbeliever on a forum made for Christians. I do enjoy the philosophical discussions, but the reason I do it here rather than at some dedicated philosophy forum is the promise of friction. The type of trolling I’m most proud of doing, though, is that of the artistic troll. I created a very successful thread on 4chan some years ago pretending to be a millennial who became a multimillionaire by simply getting good grades and spending frugally. The responses ranged from “that’s not successful, xyz is successful!” to “you’re lying, no one can do that without serious connections!” I had great zingers in reply to all of them before finally revealing the ruse. Trolling is the name of the game on that site, and on that day I won.

As to your second question, I believe the best way to handle a troll is to remember the human. Trolls aren’t acting like it, but they’re humans too. If they’re wanting to spread unhappiness, the conventional wisdom is that they likely have some unresolved issues in their personal lives and they’re using anonymous conflict as a release valve for all that angst. Respond compassionately, if you respond at all. You can play their game if it entertains you, but know there are no winners in mud fights.

 

[MehGuy]

Understood, but one might have to wonder why some folks assume that a social science teacher of any kind or stripe would "probably be" a huge masochists.

Well some might wonder about the hysteria and the increasingly bizarre reasons gender study teachers make about how women are somehow oppressed and hated. Probably my biggest personal suspicion is that they become angry and try to deflect whenever the subject of male victims come up.

Do you have any statistical data on the possible findings to support this assertion? I mean, I just saw the movie Donnie Darko and while there was one character in the screenplay who definitely would fit that 'type,' it wasn't one that also fit all of the various socially conscious teachers (like Karen) in that same movie.

Really? Lol.. maybe I have to see that movie.

I don't have any statistical data, I highly doubt we have the knowledge about masochism and the human brain to pursue such a question, at least if you want a study that is more than soft science. I would be thrilled if such an endeavor was undertaken. They should go ahead and look, I suspect within this century they'll stumble on it regardless. Although currently I am reminded by a quote from evolutionarily behavioral biologist Gad Saad that if someone were to look into the question if feminists by and large suffer from Munchausen syndrome (I personally use the term masochism) they would probably have their career blacklisted, lol.

Anyway, I think that you have at least a small counterpoint that is useful here; there can be deceivers and hypocrites, even large scale ones, who can present themselves in a forthright way in society and we must be cautious of, and hold accountable, those persons as well. But, then, that would actually be to just add to or affirm the dark triades that go into the 'troll' list as we are more generally discussing in the thread.

Sadly those people will always exist.

Ok. I understand. I'll just cut and past the first four of the 100 here for us to briefly read and look at, if you like:

• Affected Profundity Troll:“A mutant subspecies of Sophist Trolls, Affected Profundity Trolls post endless pages of pretentious drivel that is intended to appear wise, but which generally makes little sense (if any). Affected Profundity Trolls enjoy asking themselves questions, sometimes answering them and sometimes leaving them hanging, for they believe this looks intelligent and lends an aura of mystery to their incoherent ramblings.” (2006 Ubuntu Forums, Trolls)

Thanks.

Again, just part of human nature. People will always look for a way to elevate themselves in the social hierarchy. Maybe it's annoying, but I don't see it as much of a problem.

• Agenda Troll:“Agenda trolls are those participants who join a forum specifically to pursue an agenda of their own, often a feud or grudge with another member, or perhaps a dispute with some party not participating in that forum. When a flame war erupts on another board, for example, Agenda Trolls will follow their opponents to other forums in order to continue the spat.” (2006 Ubuntu Forums, Trolls)

• Amazon Trolls: “Posts something negative, be it about the story, the writing or even the grammar, whilst the natural instinct is to respond, it is imperative that you avoid the temptation and instead, face the situation and take it on the chin. If you don’t, you potentially open yourself up to a world of pain. For the forums are also home to all kinds of trolls. And literary trolls like nothing than a sniff of a stroppy author. As a result, before you know it you could find yourself under attack and those attacks can be very personal indeed. They can also be relentless as literary trolls hunt in packs.” Doug Brinson, (2013)
• Artistic Troll: “A higher species of Classic Troll, Artistic Trolls are intelligent individuals who understand the subtle art of trolling, and who do what they do specifically to make others look foolish. Often employing the techniques of Deceptive Trolls, Artistics will string forumites along until some point in time designated by their own desires, at which point they will reveal the ploy, admit that it was a ploy, and laugh at everyone for being stupid enough to fall for it.” (2006 Ubuntu Forums, Trolls)

These examples of trolling do not sound too serious either. I don't know how others would feel, but life without trolling would be somewhat bland.

And literary trolls like nothing than a sniff of a stroppy author. As a result, before you know it you could find yourself under attack and those attacks can be very personal indeed. They can also be relentless as literary trolls hunt in packs.” Doug Brinson, (2013)

This would make a funny internet type nature documentary, lol.. Get David Attenborough to narrate it.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Interesting topic, Phil! Full disclosure, I didn’t make it all the way through the list of troll “types” on your website, but I did find two that I can recognize in some of my posts here. The first would be contrarian troll, me being a nonbeliever on a forum made for Christians. I do enjoy the philosophical discussions, but the reason I do it here rather than at some dedicated philosophy forum is the promise of friction. The type of trolling I’m most proud of doing, though, is that of the artistic troll. I created a very successful thread on 4chan some years ago pretending to be a millennial who became a multimillionaire by simply getting good grades and spending frugally. The responses ranged from “that’s not successful, xyz is successful!” to “you’re lying, no one can do that without serious connections!” I had great zingers in reply to all of them before finally revealing the ruse. Trolling is the name of the game on that site, and on that day I won.

Oh my! I must say that if this is indeed a true account of your past actions and ploys here on CF, and I've been a spectator of those ploys, you sure had me fooled. Very artsy indeed! [My point being that you're one of the skeptics here who, whether we've agree or not on various subjects, isn't one I've ever personally thought was a trolling. So, count that comment for what it's worth; the truth is, thus far, I've kind of wished more skeptics could be like you or @Moral Orel as they've proceeded to question "The Faith." But as in all things, I realize we don't live in a perfectly imperfect world either, so to some extent, I'll just have to deal with each individual on an individual basis.]

And that's fine if you didn't make it all the way through in reading the Troll list. I haven't either as yet, but I'm working on it. In your case, I imagine that you've at least learned a little bit in the process of having read what you've read, just as have I. So, Kudos on that!

As to your second question, I believe the best way to handle a troll is to remember the human. Trolls aren’t acting like it, but they’re humans too. If they’re wanting to spread unhappiness, the conventional wisdom is that they likely have some unresolved issues in their personal lives and they’re using anonymous conflict as a release valve for all that angst. Respond compassionately, if you respond at all. You can play their game if it entertains you, but know there are no winners in mud fights.

....Excellent point, and it's one that seems strangely to bring me a sense of déjà vu!

 

[gaara4158]

Oh my! I must say that if this is indeed a true account of your past actions and ploys here on CF, and I've been a spectator of those ploys, you sure had me fooled. Very artsy indeed! [My point being that you're one of the skeptics here who, whether we've agree or not on various subjects, isn't one I've ever personally thought was a trolling. So, count that comment for what it's worth; the truth is, thus far, I've kind of wished more skeptics could be like you or @Moral Orel as they've proceeded to question "The Faith." But as in all things, I realize we don't live in a perfectly imperfect world either, so to some extent, I'll just have to deal with each individual on an individual basis.]

Oh, don’t worry, I post in good faith when I’m in serious sub forums here. I was just reminiscing about my favorite accomplishments as a troll elsewhere. I’ve dabbled with artistic trolling in the “kitchen sink” area once or twice, but I don’t think anyone was fooled

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Well some might wonder about the hysteria and the increasingly bizarre reasons gender study teachers make about how women are somehow oppressed and hated. Probably my biggest personal suspicion is that they become angry and try to deflect whenever the subject of male victims come up.

I suppose that for some the bizarre reasons that gender study teacher say this or that, from various angles, might give certain folks in certain sub-cultural niches cause for concern. Do you have any particular teachers in mind as you say this by which we could use as an example (by which I mean public individuals you can cite who work and speak outside of CF.... )

Really? Lol.. maybe I have to see that movie.

Yeah, you might like it. @Moral Orel brought it up as a part of our discussion elsewhere the other day and I remember that movie was one I've always had an intention to see. I was actually pleasantly surprised by it on both sociological and philosophical levels, and it's not a horror flick though, rather it's more of a Gothic, Sci-Fi film if you're interested.

I don't have any statistical data, I highly doubt we have the knowledge about masochism and the human brain to pursue such a question, at least if you want a study that is more than soft science. I would be thrilled if such an endeavor was undertaken. They should go ahead and look, I suspect within this century they'll stumble on it regardless. Although currently I am reminded by a quote from evolutionarily behavioral biologist Gad Saad that if someone were to look into the question if feminists by and large suffer from (I personally use the term masochism) they would probably have their career blacklisted, lol.

I don't know, the social and behavioral sciences have already made great strides and probably shouldn't be taken as lightly by some people as they are, but I'll have to look to see if I can find anything on masochism in relation to teachers or some such sociological criss-crossing of studies.

Sadly those people will always exist.

Yes, and I think this is partly what the old biblical stories going back to Adam and Eve, and then more specifically, Cain and Abel......are kind of getting at. We might call this a singular manifestation among many wherein human limitations emerge, become entangled with psychological and sociological complication and thereby produce "human sin." So, while we can all realize that "those people" will always exist, those of us who are able should be more proactive in learning to better and more effectively care for and if need be, deal with, those who have certain disruptive proclivities.

Thanks.

Again, just part of human nature. People will always look for a way to elevate themselves in the social hierarchy. Maybe it's annoying, but I don't see it as much of a problem.

On some level, I agree with you, but if some neighbor stands on my property, whatever that may be, and proceeds to do something extraordinary like poop there upon, telling me in the process I should just grin and bear it, then there's probably not going to a merely passive response on my part about it all. I wouldn't "count" that person's dysfunctional activity upon my property to be merely an opportunity for him to "elevate himself in the social hierarchy." Instead, I'd expect him to refrain and realize that it would be more effective in the long term to ask for assistance than demand that people "take notice."

These examples of trolling do not sound too serious either. I don't know how others would feel, but life without trolling would be somewhat bland.

I don't know how I feel about that on the whole. I'm rather of the mindset that if other people invade and impose upon me their values on my own contextual "home-turf," then I best be turning the other cheek, and I mean this in the most Jewish way that I can muster, which isn't the usual American way that "turning the other cheek" gets interpreted. So, I think that while I understand an underlying principle hear that we need to sound off and air our grievances here and there, it's one thing to do so on the Offensive and yet another altogether different thing to do so in the Defensive.

But that's my opinion.

This would make a funny internet type nature documentary, lol.. Get David Attenborough to narrate it.

Yes, that probably would provide for a more palatable type of documentary wouldn't it, as represented below [because I had to look the guy up !]

 

[2PhiloVoid]

The issue is really the problem...not the symptom.
We don't care how they are trolling.

Ok. I understand you now. Great point! And shouldn't we care 'how' they do so, at least within certain reasonable bounds? Or do we somehow think that Revelation 22:10-11 has anything to do with it all in the long run? I'm wonder just 'how much' grace and mercy is to play into our notions of 'Accountability' as a church in the world at large. [I'm just asking 'cuz I'm pondering these new sociological aspects I'm newly engaging here ... ]

 

[jardiniere]

Trolling has been around forever since the written word, earlier by spoken word. It's the act of graffiti on Pompeii walls, the books of fanciful biology, the movies like This is Spinal Tap. Trolling will always be, since it's a form of lying to incite others' responses, and thereby gain some personal interaction goal. The internet has trolls. When they harm, they should be punished for the harm, not for being trolls.

 

[Chesterton]

How might we each better identify and contend with ourselves in citing our own “Troll Type.” So, what's yours?

The only types I noticed were a couple involving the use of humor. I don't think the author should have included those. I sometimes engage in old fashioned "pulling your leg", and I've been called a troll for that more than once, but I don't consider that trolling. It would be trolling if I did it excessively to the point where it disrupts threads, but I don't. And I'm very averse to hurting anyone's feelings.

How do you think Christians or any person who takes morality and ethics seriously should deal with Troll like behavior if and when it is encountered?

I think the best advice is what you always hear - Don't Feed The Trolls. When we encounter a genuine troll, they should be completely ignored, because what they want is reaction, and if they don't get it they may likely just go away.

A lot of things in the list describe personality types that pre-date the internet. I'm sure most of us have experienced people in real life conversations do some version of the things he mentions. I'd agree though, that the anonymity of the net can cause more of it, and more harshness to it. Some of it may not be intentional though. For example, the Debbie Downer type. Does this person realize what they're doing?

Also, anyone notice the author seems to troll a bit in his own list of trolls? Seems to insult teenagers and people who wear a certain shirt, for example.

Idiot Troll: “This Internet Troll responds to every post you write with things a blithering idiot (or teenager) would say.”

Frost Troll: “The breed consists of those who blow cigarette smoke into a cancer survivor’s face, or who, even more offensively, wear an Ed Hardy V-neck.​

(On second thought, I'm probably an Idiot Troll occasionally.)

 

[SkyWriting]

Ok. I understand you now. Great point! And shouldn't we care 'how' they do so, at least within certain reasonable bounds? Or do we somehow think that Revelation 22:10-11 has anything to do with it all in the long run? I'm wonder just 'how much' grace and mercy is to play into our notions of 'Accountability' as a church in the world at large. [I'm just asking 'cuz I'm pondering these new sociological aspects I'm newly engaging here ... ]

The church at large is not accountable in any way.

God only sees one persons heart.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

The church at large is not accountable in any way.

God only sees one persons heart.

No, I think the Christian Church is accountable and will be held accountable in various ways, so I'm not sure what it is you quite mean by your first statement. You might have to explain it a little better so I understand what your meaning is a little better.

 

[bèlla]

Greetings,

There are people who enjoy poking fun or writing inflammatory posts that stir the pot. I’ve seen this on other sites. They’re usually laughing while doing so. Most are pretty agreeable in private and different from their public face.

I think we each have topics that ignite our passions as @Paidiske noted and others we should avoid. But often don’t. For the most part, I don’t think most users intend to troll or exhibit malicious behavior. We make mistakes at times. That’s part of life.

At some point you realize some subjects aren’t edifying and leave them alone. You avoid the pot stirrers and find a happy medium. Overall, most sites are less restrictive than similar venues of old. They expected greater civility and would ban users swiftly when they got out of line. If the corrective measure is a slap on the hand you should expect some level of chaos. There’s no incentive to do otherwise.

~Bella

 

[SkyWriting]

No, I think the Christian Church is accountable and will be held accountable in various ways, so I'm not sure what it is you quite mean by your first statement.

And I don't know what you man by "accountable and will be held accountable in various ways", so we are even-steven.
I said "Not".

 

[2PhiloVoid]

And I don't know what you man by "accountable and will be held accountable in various ways", so we are even-steven. I said "Not".

I'm just alluding to the ways in which the Lord addressed the Seven Churches in the book of Revelation. They, as well as we, as the Church ... are accountable in our lives as we work, eat, and sometimes 'act out' before His ever eternal Gaze.

 

[SkyWriting]

I'm just alluding to the ways in which the Lord addressed the Seven Churches in the book of Revelation. They, as well as we, as the Church ... are accountable inour lives as we work, eat, and sometimes 'act out' before His ever eternal Gaze.

Ah. OK. I don't have the gift of understanding prophesy.

 

[SkyWriting]

Greetings,

There are people who enjoy poking fun or writing inflammatory posts that stir the pot. I’ve seen this on other sites. They’re usually laughing while doing so. Most are pretty agreeable in private and different from their public face.

I think we each have topics that ignite our passions as @Paidiske noted and others we should avoid. But often don’t. For the most part, I don’t think most users intend to troll or exhibit malicious behavior. We make mistakes at times. That’s part of life.

At some point you realize some subjects aren’t edifying and leave them alone. You avoid the pot stirrers and find a happy medium. Overall, most sites are less restrictive than similar venues of old. They expected greater civility and would ban users swiftly when they got out of line. If the corrective measure is a slap on the hand you should expect some level of chaos. There’s no incentive to do otherwise.

~Bella

I do stir the pot, but my purpose is to let people know not every Christian believes everything everyone preaches. I try not to waste anyone's time being argumentative. Just a simple reminder that we have differing views. I keep my preaching to a minimum.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Greetings,

There are people who enjoy poking fun or writing inflammatory posts that stir the pot. I’ve seen this on other sites. They’re usually laughing while doing so. Most are pretty agreeable in private and different from their public face.

I think we each have topics that ignite our passions as @Paidiske noted and others we should avoid. But often don’t. For the most part, I don’t think most users intend to troll or exhibit malicious behavior. We make mistakes at times. That’s part of life.

You're very likely right that most folks who use social media to express themselves intend to troll, and we do all make mistakes in our interactions with others and even sometimes overstep a boundary or two. So, I agree with you quite a bit that we need to have empathy (and some forbearance) when interacting online with others because we all have shortcomings. At the same time, I think it's also important for all of us who are on the road to more virtuous and ethical destinations to keep in mind---being "as wise as serpents" but as harmless as doves----to realize that there really are a few folks who's intention is to go beyond the simple mistake, the occasional oversight or the single toe over the boundary. They intend to demolish us as people, even if just verbally, and I'm not sure we as a Church are really either ready to handle what's coming or understand fully how we're supposed to handle it.

At some point you realize some subjects aren’t edifying and leave them alone. You avoid the pot stirrers and find a happy medium. Overall, most sites are less restrictive than similar venues of old. They expected greater civility and would ban users swiftly when they got out of line. If the corrective measure is a slap on the hand you should expect some level of chaos. There’s no incentive to do otherwise.

~Bella

This is true. Very true. We do need to be careful and attempt to provide a balance. At the same time, I think we also have some things we all need to better affirm from both the prophets of old as well as from the Apostles of Christ, and even from our Lord Himself.

Thank you, sister, for the excellent comments! They are appreciated.

 

[bèlla]

At the same time, I think it's also important for all of us who are on the road to more virtuous and ethical destinations to keep in mind---being "as wise as serpents" but as harmless as doves----to realize that there really are a few folks who's intention is to go beyond the simple mistake, the occasional oversight or the single toe over the boundary. They intend to demolish us as people, even if just verbally, and I'm not sure we as a Church are really either ready to handle what's coming or understand fully how we're supposed to handle it.

I fear no man. There is nothing anyone can throw at me I can’t stand against in prayer. All things flow through the Most High’s hands. If He permits their attack it’s because He knows I can withstand it.

I don’t trouble myself about what is or what’s to come. When you spend years on the spiritual battlefield warring against demonic elements your mettle toughens and your spine becomes a hill. Minor things fall off and you control what’s planted.

This is only an issue for lethargic souls who’ve spent their days mimicking the grasshopper. Ants are always on the ready and prepared to fight. Man the post you’ve been assigned and leave the worries to Him. The battle is His not ours.

Stand. The Son is coming.

~Bella