Learning to Control Our Inner and Outer Troll

[2PhiloVoid]

As some folks who enjoy social media such as ChristianForums already know, there are occasionally individuals who come onto forums, blog sites, twitter links and so forth who don't always have other people's feelings in mind when posting their thoughts. We all know this kind of behavior exists and for the most part, we put up with it for various reasons, one involving some extent of freedom of speech. Ironically though, if we were to stop right there in affirming this seeming truism, we wouldn't be saying vary much because we all likely fail in remaining calm or civil when interacting with each other or from refraining to say that 'one' caustic thing that we think might 'zing' another person in a discussion.

However, there are some individuals who apparently have it as their lot in life to cause emotional discomfort, emotional damage or general distress in his/her interloctors (and usually it is a 'his' in many cases). These days, we call these individuals “Trolls.” * And we call them this not because they necessarily seem evil, but because they carry on ongoing campaign of emotional mayhem upon other people, sometimes even upon people they don't even disagree with really.

* Note: In my OP, I want to define this whole Troll problem as one that is relevant to ALL people, not just one that could involve the possible mistreatment of minors. NO, adults can victimize other adults with this extreme behavior and it should be something we're all aware of and attempt to avoid.​

Since this is a site for Christian Forums, I thought it may be interesting to talk about social issue of “Trolling” and see what happens if we explore it by discussing the contents of the following article:

100+ Types of Internet Troll & Internet Troll Definition
by Michael Nuccitelli, Psy.D.

I know we all have these emotional kinds of hiccups in our attempts to converse with other people, particularly when we may debate, but I thought it might be useful for us to reflect on two things:

1. How might we each better identify and contend with ourselves in citing our own “Troll Type.” So, what's yours?
   
   
2. How do you think Christians or any person who takes morality and ethics seriously should deal with Troll like behavior if and when it is encountered?

For example, I know that sometimes I can be rather blunt and/or overconfident in the things I say, especially since I'm educated, even though I'm somewhat aware that as a Christian I have to watch my boundaries so that I don't go overboard by railing against another person here who may not see the world the way I do. So, in browsing the link above, I find that it almost seems like the category of Sophist Troll could be a descriptor of my behavior at times (occasionally). Of course, merely citing this from a website wouldn't mean that I am indeed a Sophist Troll, but just seeing it in print on an otherwise thoughtful and professional website such as the one I've posted above can make me at least think twice before putting words to an electronic line and pressing 'SEND.'

So, with that, maybe take a look at the website above and think about how you'd answer the two questions provided. Then feel free to discuss. And if anything, even if you don't want to discuss this issue, you'll be able to learn just a little more about how to spot and perhaps deal with “Trolls.”

Enjoy!

 

[Not David]

Society and politics are jokes so I wouldn't be surprised about trolls.

 

[SkyWriting]

Society and politics are jokes so I wouldn't be surprised about trolls.

Those are two big categories to complain about.
One is very big. So that's a really big complaint.

 

[SkyWriting]

100+ Types of Internet Troll & Internet Troll Definition
by Michael Nuccitelli, Psy.D.

If you are deep searching, then it's "Criminal Justice Degrees Guide .com"
Without the "s" it's a hard search finding that website because of the typo.

 

[Paidiske]

Having been up close to a couple of very involved, very hurtful incidents of trolling, I don't really think they're comparable to the usual human failings and character flaws (or besetting sins) that most forum members of basically good will find ourselves tripping over from time to time. Serious trolling isn't a heat-of-the-moment misjudged post, it's a careful, long-term, thought-through process of putting other people through considerable distress.

With that disclaimer in mind, the weakness I'd identify in myself I don't really see on the list, unless it's a version of the "This is my CAUSE" person; I may not start threads endlessly about it, but there are a couple of topics I just can't seem to refrain from responding to, even against my better judgement...

As for how you respond to the behaviour, I think it depends a lot on what kind of behaviour it is. On another forum I have an ongoing discussion with the mods about someone who has made a point of targetting/harassing me over the last few years, and have appreciated their willingness to deal with that firmly.

As for the list, I'd want to add a new category (or perhaps sub-category of Strategic Troll) which I've seen a bit: the take-over troll who has a vision for the forum or thinks he/she could run the forum better than the people who actually run it, and makes serious attempts to infiltrate and influence the leadership.

 

[mama2one]

who knew there were so many types!

interesting that:
"Most often gender male.
Spends long periods of time online and likely internet addicted or at risk for becoming internet dependent."

when I first joined CF, noticed that male posters "seem" to be the majority
found that unusual as two "adoption" forums (now gone) that I had belonged to had mostly female posters

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Society and politics are jokes so I wouldn't be surprised about trolls.

David, whether society and politics are seen as jokes might depend on the person and how the society in which one lives is seen and evaluated. As for the term Troll, they do exist, but the unfortunate thing may be that because we use a term that seems to be borrowed from a long lost fable, some people don't pay much attention or take much heed to it. So, yes, please be aware that online, there are folks who are driven by more than just a want to talk to other people or to talk about issues that are important to them. Some of those folks don't have your own interest or well-being in mind, so it's best to be educated about these things.

Anyway, good comment! Thank you for taking to time to share a thought on a difficult topic.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

If you are deep searching, then it's "Criminal Justice Degrees Guide .com"
Without the "s" it's a hard search finding that website because of the typo.

Personally, I'm not doing any searching on this topic, and I'm already aware of the additional sites and links associated with the link I provide above. But even with that being the case, thank you for providing additional clarification for any others here who are happening by.

 

[SkyWriting]

Personally, I'm not doing any searching on this topic, and I'm already aware of the additional sites and links associated with the link I provide above. But even with that being the case, thank you for providing additional clarification for any others here who are happening by.

You mean trolls?

 

[SkyWriting]

As for the list, I'd want to add a new category (or perhaps sub-category of Strategic Troll) which I've seen a bit: the take-over troll who has a vision for the forum or thinks he/she could run the forum better than the people who actually run it, and makes serious attempts to infiltrate and influence the leadership.

That explains the changes on this site?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

who knew there were so many types!

Yeah, I know, right?! Until more recently, I hadn't actually considered that "trolls" referred to anything but the typical kind of online poster who likes to say hateful and demeaning things to people in fits of rage a few times and then disappears. I've come to realize that there has been a small gap in my own knowledge base about these online developments, so I thought it wise to become more up to date in my education on this aspect of Social Science.

interesting that:
"Most often gender male.
Spends long periods of time online and likely internet addicted or at risk for becoming internet dependent."

Yep. This also seems to reflect some other things about the emotional dysfunctions that a number of male minds, at least in Western culture, have developed. So, I guess 'trolling' is one of those expressions.

when I first joined CF, noticed that male posters "seem" to be the majority
found that unusual as two "adoption" forums (now gone) that I had belonged to had mostly female posters

Yes, good point. I've also noticed how many posters now here at CF are in the 'single' category. Several years ago, it seemed there were more 'married' folks talking here, but his has be changing in reflection, I guess, with the demographic changes in society (U.S. society, I mean, although it may reflect changes elsewhere, too).

Great comments, Christine! Thank you!

 

[2PhiloVoid]

You mean trolls?

I probably should have been clearer. I am researching on the topic of trolls on a more general, sociological level, but as for the what and why of this particular OP, and in response to your comments above, I was just indicating that I'm already aware of the websites overall context.

Anyway, so since you're here, any thoughts, comments, concerns or insights you'd like to share on this topic in reflection on the article I've provided in the OP?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Having been up close to a couple of very involved, very hurtful incidents of trolling, I don't really think they're comparable to the usual human failings and character flaws (or besetting sins) that most forum members of basically good will find ourselves tripping over from time to time. Serious trolling isn't a heat-of-the-moment misjudged post, it's a careful, long-term, thought-through process of putting other people through considerable distress.

Yes, that is a very good point, Paidiske. As for myself, I've had the actual experiences (plural) of having been bullied as a young child and teenager, so I agree that these kinds of social interactions online are something to not take lightly.

Your excellent point then brings in, for me, the following associated idea, that for the purposes of this thread, seems to overlie the pertinence and seriousness which a topic like 'trolling' can have for us, but I think that 'trolling' in general is a topic that allows for a more concrete, actualized form of reflection that even the non-Christian can understand. As Christians, we can be see it as a form of 'sin' within each of us, one that we each have to control AS WELL AS, like poor Abel in the first few chapters of the Bible, guard against when it is displayed by others, even if and when they may be our own brothers.

With that disclaimer in mind, the weakness I'd identify in myself I don't really see on the list, unless it's a version of the "This is my CAUSE" person; I may not start threads endlessly about it, but there are a couple of topics I just can't seem to refrain from responding to, even against my better judgement...

... well, just as a fellow Christian who is concerned for Women's Rights, I can fully understand your deeply felt sense of justice and the felt need to "say something." Then again, we might want to think more deeply about whether or not if, in your case, what you express in the fashion that you do is really a "weakness" or not. I'm not sure it is a weakness, Sister. It could also be a move of the Spirit and you're just "prophesying" via preaching (imagine that!), bringing a more heightened awareness of social justice to other folk's attention..................

As for how you respond to the behaviour, I think it depends a lot on what kind of behaviour it is. On another forum I have an ongoing discussion with the mods about someone who has made a point of targetting/harassing me over the last few years, and have appreciated their willingness to deal with that firmly.

Excellent point there, too, Paidski. I think you're right in pressing the mods on that forum to perhaps pay more attention to and be willing to consistently address any behavior involving targetting or harrassing. I'm sorry to hear your speaking up and that some other party thinks you need to be 'set in your place' without first thoroughly hearing you out first.

As for the list, I'd want to add a new category (or perhaps sub-category of Strategic Troll) which I've seen a bit: the take-over troll who has a vision for the forum or thinks he/she could run the forum better than the people who actually run it, and makes serious attempts to infiltrate and influence the leadership.

Yes, I've noticed there are occasionally some even here on CF who come in and begin to manipulate and/or heavily criticize the overall direction of this site. I for one find that kind of behavior troublesome and one that fits the term 'troll,' but being the Ecumenically minded person that I am, I am probably not the one who will either attempt to spot or enforce any confrontation with those Christian type trolls (at least not on a full-time basis ). I do like your added category: the Strategic Troll. I'll have to keep that in mind, although if anything, in my experiences here, I can't say that I've seen a whole lot in the way of it applying to very many of my fellow Christian posters.

 

[MehGuy]

I think most trolling is harmless. Also something that is largely a phase that most grow out of. For me a fond memory of youth.

Young people, especially men like to cause mischief and trouble. Perhaps the internet is a more healthy outlet for such behavior? Instead of egging someone's house they just mess with people online? Seems like a way for men to let out their sadistic side, and for many women to let out their masochistic side when they fall over backwards and act like helpless little victims because someone was mean to them on the internet, lol.

I used to troll a lot when I was younger. Although for me I viewed it more as a bonding activity than anything. That's how many guy friends relate to one another. We insult and poke fun at one another, and try to rile each other up. I like rough humor and have always been attracted to rougher scenes and media. I thought it was fun to be trolled in return, so I didn't necessarily view it as an "attack" on others.

Of course the older I get, the less I am interested in that stuff. Probably because primarily the rush you get from trolling because more and more desensitized. It's just now at a point like "eh..".

 

[MehGuy]

I remember a story during high school when the teacher told us that they used to use young men as phone operators during the late 19th century. But had to stop because many of them would troll their customers and start ringing their phones and hanging up. Or getting into verbal fights with their customers.

So they decided to mainly hire women instead, lol.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I think most trolling is harmless. Also something that is largely a phase that most grow out of. For me a fond memory of youth.

Young people, especially men like to cause mischief and trouble. Perhaps the internet is a more healthy outlet for such behavior? Instead of egging someone's house they just mess with people online? Seems like a way for men to let out their sadistic side, and for many women to let out their masochistic side when they fall over backwards and act like helpless little victims because someone was mean to them on the internet, lol.

I used to troll a lot when I was younger. Although for me I viewed it more as a bonding activity than anything. That's how many guy friends relate to one another. We insult and poke fun at one another, and try to rile each other up. I like rough humor and have always been attracted to rougher scenes and media. I thought it was fun to be trolled in return, so I didn't necessarily view it as an "attack" on others.

Of course the older I get, the less I am interested in that stuff. Probably because primarily the rush you get from trolling because more and more desensitized. It's just now at a point like "eh..".

I could be wrong and misinterpreting what you're saying here, and if so I apologize, but it almost sounds like you disagree with the article's premise that trolling is a bona-fide social problem. I am misreading what you're saying?

 

[MehGuy]

I could be wrong and misinterpreting what you're saying here, and if so I apologize, but it almost sounds like you disagree with the article's premise that trolling is a bona-fide social problem. I am misreading what you're saying?

I don't view it as a social problem. Sometimes people go too far. Like when people were trolling a family of a kid who killed himself. But the vast majority of trolls don't go that far.

I'm not even sure I'd call the more extreme cases a social problem, more human nature. Something that is never going to be fixed.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I remember a story during high school when the teacher told us that they used to use young men as phone operators during the late 19th century. But had to stop because many of them would troll their customers and start ringing their phones and hanging up. Or getting into verbal fights with their customers.

So they decided to mainly hire women instead, lol.

Ok. That's kind of funny, I guess.

So, since it seems to be that you see "trolling" as just more or less of a kind of hobby activity or harmless pastime, like playing Grand Theft Auto [whatever version number] some hundreds of times repeatedly---which I guess in some ways is something we could all agree upon is a better course than for the same man to go out in society and actually commit the acts that are evident in that same game---then I guess you're also recommending that we allow trolling to become yet another way that some folks express themselves.

Is this what you're saying? Just wondering. I'm not clear on whether you also see any of the 100 types of trolls in the list provided as being actually socially problematic or that they should all just be evaluated as ideas we can dismiss as forms of humor and such.

 

[MehGuy]

Ok. That's kind of funny, I guess.

So, since it seems to be that you see "trolling" as just more or less of a kind of hobby activity or harmless pastime, like playing Grand Theft Auto [whatever version number] some hundreds of times repeatedly---which I guess in some ways is something we could all agree upon is a better course than for the same man to go out in society and actually commit the acts that are evident in that same game---then I guess you're also recommending that we allow trolling to become yet another way that some folks express themselves.

Not sure it's a matter of "allowing", it's going to happen regardless. Young men are full of energy and want to express themselves. Subjecting them to lectures about "toxic masculinity" from gender study teachers who are probably huge masochists themselves isn't going to change anything, lol.

Is this what you're saying? Just wondering. I'm not clear on whether you also see any of the 100 types of trolls in the list provided as being actually socially problematic or that they should all just be evaluated as ideas we can dismiss as forms of humor and such.

I didn't read the article. Mainly because I dislike going to links I don't know. What was some of the forms of trolling listed?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Not sure it's a matter of "allowing", it's going to happen regardless. Young men are full of energy and want to express themselves. Subjecting them to lectures about "toxic masculinity" from gender study teachers who are probably huge masochists themselves isn't going to change anything, lol.

Understood, but one might have to wonder why some folks assume that a social science teacher of any kind or stripe would "probably be" a huge masochists. Do you have any statistical data on the possible findings to support this assertion? I mean, I just saw the movie Donnie Darko and while there was one character in the screenplay who definitely would fit that 'type,' it wasn't one that also fit all of the various socially conscious teachers (like Karen) in that same movie.

Anyway, I think that you have at least a small counterpoint that is useful here; there can be deceivers and hypocrites, even large scale ones, who can present themselves in a forthright way in society and we must be cautious of, and hold accountable, those persons as well. But, then, that would actually be to just add to or affirm the dark triades that go into the 'troll' list as we are more generally discussing in the thread.

Regardless, good comment, MehGuy.

I didn't read the article. Mainly because I dislike going to links I don't know. What was some of the forms of trolling listed?

Ok. I understand. I'll just cut and past the first four of the 100 here for us to briefly read and look at, if you like:

• Affected Profundity Troll:“A mutant subspecies of Sophist Trolls, Affected Profundity Trolls post endless pages of pretentious drivel that is intended to appear wise, but which generally makes little sense (if any). Affected Profundity Trolls enjoy asking themselves questions, sometimes answering them and sometimes leaving them hanging, for they believe this looks intelligent and lends an aura of mystery to their incoherent ramblings.” (2006 Ubuntu Forums, Trolls)
• Agenda Troll:“Agenda trolls are those participants who join a forum specifically to pursue an agenda of their own, often a feud or grudge with another member, or perhaps a dispute with some party not participating in that forum. When a flame war erupts on another board, for example, Agenda Trolls will follow their opponents to other forums in order to continue the spat.” (2006 Ubuntu Forums, Trolls)
• Amazon Trolls: “Posts something negative, be it about the story, the writing or even the grammar, whilst the natural instinct is to respond, it is imperative that you avoid the temptation and instead, face the situation and take it on the chin. If you don’t, you potentially open yourself up to a world of pain. For the forums are also home to all kinds of trolls. And literary trolls like nothing than a sniff of a stroppy author. As a result, before you know it you could find yourself under attack and those attacks can be very personal indeed. They can also be relentless as literary trolls hunt in packs.” Doug Brinson, (2013)
• Artistic Troll: “A higher species of Classic Troll, Artistic Trolls are intelligent individuals who understand the subtle art of trolling, and who do what they do specifically to make others look foolish. Often employing the techniques of Deceptive Trolls, Artistics will string forumites along until some point in time designated by their own desires, at which point they will reveal the ploy, admit that it was a ploy, and laugh at everyone for being stupid enough to fall for it.” (2006 Ubuntu Forums, Trolls)