Learning from heretics

[Acceptance]

According to the Catholics the Baton has been passed to the Fathers or Apstoles through Peter. Therefore if a Member of a Church decides to speak against the authority of a father. That person is then a heretic?

No, that is not what Catholics believe. Yes, we know that Jesus left His church in Peters hands and that Peter has passed it down. However you can speak against a priest and not be a heretic; priests are not the end-all-be-all of the Catholic church as many non-Catholics tend to incorrectly believe. Dictionary.com had it right...if you largely oppose the teachings of the church (as opposed to an individual priest), then you could meet the criteria to be considered a heretic.

Now Jesus did not give the authority to the religious leaders of His time. He gave it to those who needed Him the most. This made the religious leaders ask "Who is htis man that He forgives sins?" According to the Religous leaders, in order for sins to be forgiven you must go through a process of rituals and materialistic cleanings.

I can not respond to this one in this forum...er...I don't think

Pmarquette. You are saying that no Preacher has the power to "Speak the word" because we All can "speak the word"?

meaning that we who tell a preacher "Speak but the word, and i will be healed", are actually giving the preaher a false sense of authority?

When that prayer is prayed, it is intended for the Lord to say the word and heal us. I don't think Pmarquette was saying that a preacher has the power to 'speak the word and (someone) will be healed'. I believe (but I could be wrong, so Pmarquette please correct me if I misinterpret) he was trying to say...why do we ask the Lord to heal us if the bible tells us He has already said the word.

God Bless

 

[Covenant Heart]

An interesting question! I say so because we have always learned much from heretics. The great Trinitarian and christological statements of the early church were hammered into form as the church was forced to respond to heretics. It was the challenge of false doctrine that forced the church to reflect deeply upon the Scriptures and to define her faith. And among those early writings are some of the best that the church has ever produced. Jesus said that the Spirit of God would lead us into truth. Indeed he does--even if it takes heresy to get us started! Blessings!

Covenant Heart

 

[Icystwolf]

Being called a heretic by churches...argh, my stories again...but i'll avoid it this time.

Heretics are outcasts of a church. These are the signs of a church that is sick because it's not taking care of itself properley, either theres not enough teachings of the gospels or that false doctrine is evident.

It's still used today, because I was called a heretic, because the church didn't teach much on the gospels. This was because everyone else in the church doesn't read the Bible every night, and I picked up this habit, and I couldn't wait any longer for them to catchup... hence I started picking ideas and had them tested in my life...

However, by the time I was in uni, I've had well thought up ideas on Christianity which the church could not support....hence they disagreed unconditionally....which also based on other things about myself that they didn't like

thus I moved on from that church....now I'm actually spiritually happy, because I've been able to identify scripturely where to change to become more Christlike....and aim to be more Christlike.

I think the difference with the "heretic" that we all see and what it really is in todays society, is based on how the church treats the person and whether the person feels as if they've been understood.

The true Heretic, well.....

I think I'm kinda confused at this topic....the way I see it, it's either a person who is selfpride and arrogant, or a misunderstood and neglected person who could be creative and speaking from God.

 

[Durelen]

An interesting question! I say so because we have always learned much from heretics. The great Trinitarian and christological statements of the early church were hammered into form as the church was forced to respond to heretics. It was the challenge of false doctrine that forced the church to reflect deeply upon the Scriptures and to define her faith. And among those early writings are some of the best that the church has ever produced. Jesus said that the Spirit of God would lead us into truth. Indeed he does--even if it takes heresy to get us started! Blessings!

Covenant Heart

Sure but that’s not the point of the argument. Indeed we should be prepared to share our faith and defend the gospel from heretical teachings, but we are commanded to be separated from them, not to “learn” from them as if there was some good from their teachings. I see no good in the existence of enemy’s to the Gospel. Just because someone wants to kill me does not make me run faster.

Don’t get me wrong though and read things into what I’m saying (forums can be that way), I have a large home library and I have many anti-cult books and dictionaries with the religions of the world and what they teach. But I see nothing to learn from the direct teachings of such heretics that could strengthen my walk with the Lord. It’s a trap and I don’t go around sticking my head in their nooses to test the strength of it, I trigger it off from a safe distance by using the Sword of the spirit, which is the Word of God.

As for what is or what is not a heretical I conclude it is clearly defined. If you find confusion in that then you should exhaustively study its definition in light of scriptures. The ministers of your church are there to help you with such things. Don’t be afraid to talk with them and receive study recommendations from them on any issue.

 

[pmarquette]

No, that is not what Catholics believe. Yes, we know that Jesus left His church in Peters hands and that Peter has passed it down.

When that prayer is prayed, it is intended for the Lord to say the word and heal us. I don't think Pmarquette was saying that a preacher has the power to 'speak the word and (someone) will be healed'. I believe (but I could be wrong, so Pmarquette please correct me if I misinterpret) he was trying to say...why do we ask the Lord to heal us if the bible tells us He has already said the wo
.....................................................................
We have to speak , believe , and take a step on what has already been provided by the Word of Creation ( Jesus ) , who became flesh , died , rose , and gave his authority to the church to go and do ( Mark 16.16-20 ).

So when we ask God to speak the word , we are " redundant " ; He has already spoke and sent the Word - Jesus ( John 3.14-16 ) ; who in turn sends us to speak the word ( of God ) for ourselves and others .... like singing
" kumbaya " ... if the Holy Spirit is within us , so is the Father and the Son ;
so why ask them to come when they are already there in our midst ? Why ask them to do what we have been called to do .... our work for Christ ,
by the Holy Spirit ...

Paul said that Jesus has called some ( ministry ) to teach and empower the
rest of us to go and do ( laity ) Ephesians 4.11-12 ; Ezekiel 3.18-24 ; Matthew 28.18

I see the word " who-so-ever " which I believe means exactly what it says :
( Matthew 7.7 ; Mark 11.23-4 ; Romans 10.8-9 ; 1 John 1.8-9 ) who soever is at a place that Jesus , Holy Spirit , & God wishes to work ;they will be empowered to do the work at hand ( minister or lay person ), by the Holy
Spirit , with His anointing , by his gifts ( 2 Corinthians 12 ) to do the work .

How did Jesus do battle in the desert ? He quoted the words of God , recorded by the prophets , spoken by God and recorded by the Holy Spirit .
1 John 5.14 speak and believe - Christian
Mark 11.23-4 speak and believe - Christian
James 4.7 submit to God and resist - Christian , any one of us

 

[reformedfan]

Read Acts 17:16-32. Paul quoted the pagans, but directed it to Christ. He didn't ignore their idols, or their poets, but confronted the Greeks with them.
reformedfan

 

[Covenant Heart]

Several points: First, it is indeed true that we have no fellowship with heretics. Heresy divides Christ’s body which is not acceptable for believers. 2Pe 2:1 refers to false teachers who would be among the laos (people) of God. The word "pareisago" has the idea of introducing what is alien into the body it. I read the text to mean that heretics have no place or business among God’s people.

Secondly, I have some concern with the words, "as if there was some good from their teachings..." It cannot be said, Durelen, that heretical belief systems have no truth. Saying that, never use said writings as a source book for truth, although it is not impossible that they may have some common grace insights that others have overlooked. We must be careful not to overstate our case. If we do–it happens more than I would care to admit–they will crucify us with it. That discredits orthodox teachers in the eyes of the untaught, and I find that very disturbing.

Third, I grant readily that responding to heretical systems is not the life calling of all. But God gifts some with an ability to intercourse with ideas while retaining their balance and perspective. It goes without saying that this is not without danger. Only fools would rush into this without recognizing the danger, and fools give heretics fertile ground. That said, all face danger who follow Christ. But such work is for those who are well grounded in the system of truth revealed in Scripture. They must be able to see relationships between ideas. They must work within a community of other Godly, gifted, like-minded persons who have been properly trained and prepared thereunto. And even though this may seem strange to you, I believe also that a very firm grasp of the confessional heritage of the church is invaluable as a reference point at which to confirm that we have not drifted.

I can understand that my words may disturb some, yet I see a greater danger–that heretics point and say, "see–they dare not face us, our Scriptures or our arguments." That, I deem unacceptable. We will never shrink from this task.

Fourth, be careful with such remarks as "I see no good in the existence of enemy’s to the Gospel." Remember that once, all of us were enemies of God, of Christ, of the cross. And remember that heresy is a manifestation of the distortions introduced by the fall. All of us need God’s touch to restore and reorder what was marred and twisted by the fall.

This may not be strictly germane to the intent of the initial post. But I can’t emphasize too much the second point of not overstating our case (i.e. "they have absolutely no truth whatsoever, etc.). And I will try to illuminate this with an experience.

Years ago, a woman approached me concerning her father who was terminally ill. He had about 4 months to live. It was cancer. For 30 years, he studied arian literature. When I met him for the first time, I knew that I had one shot to get this right. I say that because his first question was not a question at all but an accusation.

"Can you tell me how long the leaders of this world have been seeking peace!"

My answer was to raise my right hand, and gradually to squeeze together my thumb and index finger until there was no gap at all. I said, "this long." I watched for 30 seconds as this sunk in. Then I said, "if our world was seeking peace, it would not reject the prince of peace." The next pause was at least as long. This time, he broke the silence.

"Do you believe that the Jehovah’s Witnesses are 100% wrong!" I learned later that 3 decades before, a Baptist Minister (please do not take this as a slam on Baptist ministers) told him just that. He said that he would return with his answers. He never did. That task fell to me. Let me share my perspective.

Jehovah’s Witnesses present us with two great issues–kingdom, and the identity of Jesus Christ. The Jehovah Witness’ kingdom doctrine is actually quite Biblical–surprisingly so. They lose it with their christology. The reason that hell is eternal is that sin committed against an infinite God is infinite sin. No finite creature can offer a sacrifice of infinite merit to appease God’s infinite anger and wrath. Since a finite creature can never pay an infinite debt, the sinner never stops paying. Christ alone can pay the debt because as the unique God-man, he alone can offer to God an atoning sacrifice of infinite merit thereby appeasing God’s infinite judgment. In a word–the Jehovah’s christ can’t save.

I began by focusing on the fact that worship–which belongs to Yahweh alone–is ascribed to Jesus Christ. One week before he died, this man ordered the JWs out of his home never to return because (in his words), "YOU DON’T WORSHIP JESUS!" We must present God’s truth better than heretics present lies. So we can never overstate our case. Never.

And what can heretics teach us? With a grasp of their belief systems, we learn how better to press the case for Christ before them. By the way, did you know that secularism is a modern-day heresy? Blessings!

Covenant Heart

 

[Durelen]

Secondly, I have some concern with the words, "as if there was some good from their teachings..." It cannot be said, Durelen, that heretical belief systems have no truth.

And that is the most dangerous; truth mixed with a lie. A great example of this is when the Devil tempted Jesus.

Matthew 4:5 Then the devil took him to the holy city, and set him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down. For it is written, ‘He will give his angels charge of you, ‘and ‘In their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone.’" 7 Jesus said to him, "Again it is written, ‘You shall not tempt the Lord your God.’"


What was Satins tactic? He took truth and attempt to deceive Jesus with it. Yet we know that the Devil is a liar from the beginning but he is capable of using truth as well as deception. Of course in some of the teaching of false teachers there is truth, but it is in the spirit of deception. What may be said by them may have a completely different meaning than what scripture teaches even though it sounds familiar. The word of God is not a collection of sound bites in which we can pick and chose what is truth but it is a living, flowing, fountain of cohesive singularity. To add in a little poison corrupts the entire pool.


Yes, there are some full time ministries that deal with such things. I highly doubt you will see them sitting in services of such assemblies attempting to separate the truth from a lie to feed from the truth. Some believe this is perfectly fine in fact. And this in a day where approximately 85% of Christians have not the capability to coherently present the gospel in a witnessing situation. And with no capacity for the truth, how can they defend themselves from the thousands of doctrines of demons in this world? They wont.


1 Timothy 4:1 But the Spirit saith expressly, that in later times some shall fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons,


Why? Because there is some truth in what the seducing demons are saying. Enough truth mixed with a lie to twist the doctrines of our holy scriptures. Yes I’ve met Christians who do such things. They read Dianetics, study with the Scientologists or with the Masons. “Hey, truth is truth, right? It has some truth so it can’t be all that bad.” So we see 1 Timothy 4:1 coming true.


How did Jesus defend the attack of the Devil in Matthew 4:5? He did not learn its doctrine and try to reason from its twisting views; He used the pure Word of God. If you spent all your time running around trying to learn to defend the Gospel from every heretical teaching system, you would run out of gas long before you even bite off a chunk of the piles of rubbish. By using the Word of God you can defend the Gospel from EVERY false teaching known to man.


Hebrews 4:12For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and quick to discern the thoughts and intents of the heart.


That is all you need to be prepared to defend the Gospel from any perverted doctrine. When I pick up an apologetic book on cults or false teachings I see a record of battles. I see the tactics in which they use that have been used for thousands of years. I feel the clash of steel on steel and the fallen on the field, stricken even unto death. Hosts of demons manning their barricades and courageous Saints marching into the breach armed with the Sword of the Spirit.


Ephesians 6:12 For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.


And to be well armed you must use the Sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God, as well as the whole armor of God. There is no substitute or upgrade; it’s the best.


Ephesians 6:13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; 15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. 17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: 18Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints

We should be praying for revival, not trying to learn truths from doctrines of demons.

 

[Blackhawk]

Thanks for all the replies. They were very interesting. Now I do not have the time to go back and discuss them all but I do want to explain why I posted this poll.

I have been reading "cReating Spirituality" by Matthew Fox. I picked it up from the library because I am very interested in Christian Spirituality and saw on the back that the vatian had oredered him to slient. Anyways there is a good reason that they wanted him to be silent. He believes that we are all divine and in a pantheistic god.

I won't go into more about his beliefs but as I read the book I was thinking that men like him have come about because of problems in the church and our theology. We stress one side of the truth and reject the other. Sure Fox was wrong but we do not as a whole put enough stress on the creation and the mystery of it. Same thing for Arius and Pelagius and so on. Most of them saw real problems in the church but instead of staying with the truth they overemphasized another part. So in a sense we help create heretics by not emphasizing the whole truth. (I am not saying that the heretics themselves are not to blem for their own actions though) But anyways again as I was reading the book I could say yes to some of the things he said and di learn some things. However I was able toreject some of his bleiefs as they went against the Bible. So I would say that mature christians should read the heretics. We can learn from them while rejecting the wrong parts. We can use the Bible as the lithmus test.

SO I am saying that we can learn from the people that were wrong (Pe;agius, Fox) not just from those who had it right. (Augustine)

I hope that was clear. I have been working many late days at UPS since theis is our peak season. Merry Christmas to all y'all.

 

[Oblio]

Same thing for Arius and Pelagius and so on. Most of them saw real problems in the church but instead of staying with the truth they overemphasized another part.

So many heresies come from this. Emphasis, or just as bad, deemphasis in reaction to a problem, perceived or real.

 

[jbarcher]

I have a question, from Blackhawk's last post...

Are there any um...I'll use the word "solid" here, yes, are there schools (maybe college/seminaries) that teach solid theology? Or something like a study Bible. Solid...no odd doctrines that man made...

It occurs to me that reading the Bible on one's own time is absolutely crucial to the basis of understanding...a lot of things... A former pastor recommends that I study early church history, to see the erroneous doctrines.

May I please get some thoughts?

 

[Andrew]

Are there any um...I'll use the word "solid" here, yes, are there schools (maybe college/seminaries) that teach solid theology? Or something like a study Bible. Solid...no odd doctrines that man made...

Try the churches of those who label others heretics except themselves.

 

[Covenant Heart]

that lies are most dangerous when mixed with truth. I debated whether to say "there was some ‘good’ [or ‘truth’] from their teachings..." So I shaped the thought adding, "it cannot be said...that heretical belief systems have no truth." After all–who would believe them had they no truth? They need some capital to operate at all.

The one text that references heresies (pareisaxo in 2Pe 2:1) implies a secret introduction of outside (non apostolic, non Biblical) ideas/teachings into the church. This is done slyly. Heresy needs secrecy and slyness. We must deny it both and make the distinction between truth and error so clear that there is no question as to what is right. All truth is God’s truth. And what truth heretical bodies hold is in fact capital borrowed from God. We must take back what is ours and claim all truth for God. And yes, the Scriptures are the indispensable foundation for all our work. Our watchword is "back to the Scriptures!"

I especially like your observation that "the word of God is not a collection of sound bites in which we can pick and chose what is truth but it is a living, flowing, fountain of cohesive singularity. To add in a little poison corrupts the entire pool." That is what I intended when I spoke of that system of truth (doctrine) revealed in Scripture, and the fact that we must be able to see relationships between ideas. Many distortions of truth arise because people hold an unstable view of Scripture.

As for sitting in heretical assemblies–no. Said assembles practice blasphemous worship. And I agree entirely with your use of the Scriptures that you cite. I also affirm with Saint Paul that we must not be ignorant of Satan’s devices (2Co 2:11). I affirm with John the manifold ways in which our enemy opposes Christ’s body. He is the destroyer (dragon), the deceiver (serpent) the devil (accuser) and Satan (adversary).

The word of God is our indispensable weapon. Yet I shudder to think of what will happen if we know not our enemy! I’m not arguing for becoming hung up on demonology or occult arts and the like. I’ve known those who do, and they are not stable people. But as you say, many Christians are ill equipped today to meet the challenge of the hour. They lack discernment (evidenced in your "truth is truth, isn’t it" remark). They need to be well grounded in their faith. We have not always been so remiss in this way. And really, avoiding interaction with heretics simply isn’t possible. A month ago, a guy at my church gave me some statistics. Two new, world-wide religions form weekly. That’s disturbing.

But we should be more concerned by the revival of a major, world religion called Islam. It offers a system of doctrine for life in a culture that has no clue of what a system of doctrines is. Few of us have never seen anything like it. If people think "truth is truth," what will they do when their Arab neighbors say that they believe the Bible and practice the 10 commandments? What will they do when they say that Jesus is a true prophet of God and that Muslims pray, fast, give alms and practice religious education? What will they do when they are told that "Islam" is simply the Arab word for "submission." Don’t you believe that we should all submit to God? Did I mention the word "concerned?"

Blackhawk's question does contain an ambiguity. The question is, what do we mean by the word "learn" when we ask if we can "learn" from heretics. If by that we are asking, "are heretics good teachers, the answer is a resounding "NO!" But for that, we dare not be ignorant of their religions. And that will mean knowing them far better than the simpleton President who told the world that Islam is a great religion of peace that has been hijacked by terrorists. (What Islamic scholar of any persuasion [Islamic, Jewish, Christian, Marxist-atheist] would even dream of saying such a thing)!?!? And like it or not, we need to learn about Islam. The Arab is our neighbor as never before. Some of us have seen this coming for 30 years. It’s about time the rest of us opened our eyes and smelled the coffee. May God help us if we don’t!

In Christ
Covenant Heart

 

[Covenant Heart]

People would be surprised by the numbers who think that they hold very sound views only because they have no perspective against which to test that assumption. I’ve known fighting fundamentalists who have no idea that they held Barthian views because they’ve never studied Barth. That’s the kicker.

Sweetsoulsong, if you are serious about this, I’ll offer a few recommendations. I would start with a superb theologian of an earlier generation named Louis Berkhof.

Berkhof wrote a 735 page systematic theology that remains a definitive textbook. He wrote a short version "Manual of Christian Doctrine." Shorter still is his "Summary of Christian Doctrine" (which I believe is free on the internet." This 3-tiered model allows one to "grow into" the study of his systematics text at one’s own pace.

Berkhof also wrote a history of doctrine that follows the historical development of church doctrine in the sense that pastor intended. This invaluable work explains the context and way in which heresy arose with the "hows and whys" by which the church responded.

And he wrote "Principles of Biblical Interpretation," a 166 page work on hermeneutics (Biblical interpretation). This field is critically important for anyone called to such work. But hermeneutics also requires Hebrew and Greek, so we’re talking about a calling here.

Lastly, Berkhof wrote an "Introduction to Systematic Theology" discussing many schools of thought that existed over the centuries. If only 185 pages, this is not light reading.

Because it is critically important to know the perspective of our teachers and mentors, know that Louis Berkhof stood in the reformed (Protestant) confessional tradition (Belgic Confession of Faith, the Canons of Dort and the Heidelberg Catechism).

Another name in the same faith tradition comes to mind–Herman Bavinck (arguably the finest theologian of his generation). His "The Doctrine of God" is simply extraordinary. His breadth and ability to relate ideas is without parallel. His discussion of the Trinity is the most powerful that I have ever seen. The precision and proportion by which Bavinck delineates, weighs and balances the faith that we confess is a thing of rare beauty. His writing is masterful! You cannot do such work as you are considering without Bavinck.

In time, you would need to study specific works focusing on particular parts of theology.

Speaking only for myself, my call is that your former pastor has made a good suggestion. Yet 16ish strikes me as young for such a project. It is critically important that you know not only your Bible but how the many parts of doctrine balance and interrelate. It is best to have a mentor to coach one in such studies. And far better yet to have this grounding BEFORE one enters theological conflagration.

That said, I must admit that I was just your age (16) when young people in the faith community to which I was then attached became involved a non-demoninational study led by a "Jesus only" man. They didn’t react well when I said that this position was heretical. One gal got very nasty; she said that I had no basis for such a stand.

The "Jesus only" people had a gathering place (call it not a church!). I met with one of their leaders one evening, and another leader for another evening. They were without a pastor at that time, so I traveled to another city to meet one of their pastors. At the same time, I was pursuing a book in systematics. With these things together, I learned where the "Jesus only" people fit on the theological spectrum. I learned of the sabellian heresy.

I went back to my youth peers and presented my findings. Did they accept it? No. I was ostracized. But five years later, this group (mostly Wesleyan) saw their congregation of some 200 people split. It was reduced to about 50. The rest joined the "Jesus only" people. It seems to me that they might have saved themselves a lot of grief by listening.

As I say, I was 16–rash and presumptuous. I believe that I did the right thing. But I ought to have been better grounded first. I know that this is hypocritical, but do not do what I did. If this is your calling at all, do as I here say. At that time, I had no guide. But God was gracious and I kept my bearings. And I discerned in this some sense of calling.

A final, cautionary word. Sweetsoulsong; If you are as I was, you may find this heady. What a vast world there is to explore! Wow! But knowledge puff up. Never reduce faith to an issue of doctrinal propositions. The tragedy of heresy is that is that by denying God’s revelation, it closes the one way that God opened to himself in his Son. And never skim on fellowship with God through the Scriptures! You simply must maintain strong, personal dialogue with God and heed all his commands for daily living. No matter how much you learn, it will all be a waste if you are a weak Christian. You have been warned!

That said, may I share with you the most profound truth that I have found? It is this:

Jesus loves me, this I know, For the Bible tells me so; Little one to him belong, They are weak but he is strong.

Covenant Heart

 

[jbarcher]

Thanks! I'm already used to being insulted and having my faith bashed, so at least that part's covered [lol]. And yes, I find that there is quite a vast world...just looking at theology. Again, thanks.

 

[cindylou]

By definition a heretic is a person who takes a part of the truth, twists it around, and tries to convince others that it is the whole truth. A heretic is not a person who is, in essence, lying. They just offer a distorted version of the truth.
But here is the kicker...how do we really know who or what is heresy? Many beliefs are floating around today in mainstream Churches that are truly heretical. But how is an average person to know?

Just a question. I have my own thoughts about it.

 

[orthedoxy]

Here is a defenition of a heretic: one who dissents from an accepted belief or doctrine.
that's why it's important for us to hold on to the teachings that the church always taught, not believe in new teachings that was never taught before

 

[Icystwolf]

No!

People who teach a twisted truth are called "False Teachers", those who teach false doctrine. These people can exist in churches, start in a church and run a church.

A heretic is a person being kicked out of a church because they are different to the teachings taught by the church.

If a person was kicked out of a church, he is a heretic to that church. His/Her theology could be of correct theology and teaching as opposed to the churches teachings.

If the church is teaching false doctrine, and a person corrects the church but gets the boot...then he is a heretic that stands for the truth.

Of course it works the other way around as well, if a church is twisted and a heretic comes out, he/she too could be twisted even further...

In the end, theres 3 possibilities...essentially a heretic is one that is being kicked out of a church.

It's a bad assumption to make that all churches don't teach false doctrine, esspecially when theres so many churches that do teach false doctrine.

 

[Filia Mariae]

We can learn a lot from heretics- most importantly we are forced to explicitly define and defend the Truth. However, those who are not well-grounded in the Truth should be cautious about engaging in debate with heretics.

 

[thereselittleflower]

I did not vote as there was no good response for my feelings on it . .

We can learn something from their writings . . what error is . . what it looks like . .

Should we read them? Only if we understand we are reading error and are able to recognize it . .but not to learn or understand right doctrine . .


Peace in Him!