Learning for learning's sake

[lawtonfogle]

I get a degree in molecular physics. I work in a laboratory and make discoveries.
I can't recall the last time anything has been discovered in a classroom.

I would like to see how you teach kids in a research lab by saying "go research"? Don't you normally need to have your kids taught via the class room.

Also, if you don't know of any discoveries in the classroom (or in homework therein assigned by it), then you aren't really paying any attention at all. I remember in my BC calculus class, I believe every single student in it discovered calculus. Yes, someone else already had done it, but being we are unable to exactly transfer knowledge, we can only lead on in others discovering what we already have. I can get my brother to write E=E, and F_t=sigma(ma) all day, but he won't understand it unless I get him to discover it.

Now, as to new discoveries occurring in class rooms, they are probably few and far between, but I think ever rarer are those who reach new discoveries without ever having been guided though a collection of old discoveries.

 

[lawtonfogle]

We've convinced a lot of people of that in America. It seems to be quite popular to sneer at intellectuals. The love affair with material gain has caused far too many to view any endeavor that requires brain power but doesn't bring in cash as a waste of time.

An engineer basically told me this, and based on experiences like this and a few other things including a in depth discussion with my academic adviser, it seems this is the stereotypical split between engineers and scientist. My friend recently dropped out of computer engineering. It surprised his academic advisor because he carried a 4.0 even though he was in his 3rd year in the degree, being that almost all dropout are due to bad grades (or money). His reason was simple, he didn't get enough physics, so he switched to physics. I keep telling him he needs to double degree in Com. Sci. and Physics.

But anyways, what you say is so true for so many people. Money is what is most important to them. To put it another way, "most of [the humans] were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of paper."

Bonus points for getting reference.

 

[gwenmead]

Bonus points for getting reference.

Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Radio script, initially, but as I recall it also appears in the book and the BBC series. Don't remember if it's in the movie though...

 

[Cosmic Mission]

How do you feel about people who get degrees just for the sake of getting one? Since I've been in school most people around me get degrees in hopes of getting a decent career where they makes lots of money. But I also met people who were getting degrees because of self improvement, or something like that.

So what do you think of people who seek education because they like learning?

Is it a waste of time? Why or why not?

Learning something for the sake of personal improvement is not something to disregard. I have read almost twenty books since last summer about science, religion, politics, and culture in hopes of expanding my knowledge of science and religion.

College is an investment of tens of thousands of dollars, so any student must ask what kind of return he is likely to get from it. Unless mom and pop are rich, getting a degree without any plans to use it in the future probably isn't a good investment.

This is a good time to note that we value learning and it's extensions (grades, honor rolls, ect) because we were taught to value it. Many high school students (and parents) make a very big deal of being on an honor roll, but why? It's because they were taught to value grades as a mark of achievement. I was on the honor roll in high school, but my grades back then are worthless to me now as an adult, even in a subjective or inspirational way.

 

[Braunwyn]

This is a good time to note that we value learning and it's extensions (grades, honor rolls, ect) because we were taught to value it. Many high school students (and parents) make a very big deal of being on an honor roll, but why? It's because they were taught to value grades as a mark of achievement. I was on the honor roll in high school, but my grades back then are worthless to me now as an adult, even in a subjective or inspirational way.

I agree. Grade obsession is bad for students. Not all fall prey but for those that do, it can be very distressing.

 

[lawtonfogle]

Learning something for the sake of personal improvement is not something to disregard. I have read almost twenty books since last summer about science, religion, politics, and culture in hopes of expanding my knowledge of science and religion.

College is an investment of tens of thousands of dollars, so any student must ask what kind of return he is likely to get from it. Unless mom and pop are rich, getting a degree without any plans to use it in the future probably isn't a good investment.

This is a good time to note that we value learning and it's extensions (grades, honor rolls, ect) because we were taught to value it. Many high school students (and parents) make a very big deal of being on an honor roll, but why? It's because they were taught to value grades as a mark of achievement. I was on the honor roll in high school, but my grades back then are worthless to me now as an adult, even in a subjective or inspirational way.

I'm obsessed with grades because it is the only way I can continue my education. I must keep a 3.00 to keep my scholarship (which pays half of my total college cost), and a 3.5 to stay in honors college, which helps me take the classes with the best learning potential (at least, they normally have that, but there are plenty of good non-honors classes). I personally want a 3.8 or higher to help me with grad school. Then again, I am nowhere near as obsessed as some others.

 

[Braunwyn]

I'm obsessed with grades because it is the only way I can continue my education. I must keep a 3.00 to keep my scholarship (which pays half of my total college cost), and a 3.5 to stay in honors college, which helps me take the classes with the best learning potential (at least, they normally have that, but there are plenty of good non-honors classes). I personally want a 3.8 or higher to help me with grad school. Then again, I am nowhere near as obsessed as some others.

As an undergrad, I was obsessed. One of my academic scholarships varied in monies offfered based on gpa. 3.7 was the cut off for the highest amount I could receive and that's where I kept it or >. I had to take extra classes to do so, which ended up landing me an extra degree.

A few years ago a student from one of our local uni's stabbed a prof in the neck because he was afraid that he was going to fail the class, which would affect his student visa status (or something). He went to her home and did it. Fortunately, he was caught and the knife didn't hit a major artery. Either way, it gets crazy for some students.

 

[MaxP]

This is a good time to note that we value learning and it's extensions (grades, honor rolls, ect) because we were taught to value it.

Only way I value grades and school is as a means to an end.

Addressing this:

I would like to see how you teach kids in a research lab by saying "go research"? Don't you normally need to have your kids taught via the class room.

I said "get a degree."
You learn, then you apply that knowledge. Unapplied knowledge is useless.

 

[Braunwyn]

Only way I value grades and school is as a means to an end.

Addressing this:

I said "get a degree."
You learn, then you apply that knowledge. Unapplied knowledge is useless.

Most reasonable people apply knowledge. Though that application doesn't always involve a pay check.

 

[MaxP]

Most reasonable people apply knowledge. Though that application doesn't always involve a pay check.

Course not, but the thread is asking if you would "learn for learnings sake."
If there is no point or tangible application of the knowledge you learn(at least for you), don't bother learning it.
I'm not contrary to a little bit of extra learning so you can answer random questions posed by your friends; it's when people spend an extra year or two in the classroom for that knowledge that bothers me.

 

[moonkitty]

Course not, but the thread is asking if you would "learn for learnings sake."
If there is no point or tangible application of the knowledge you learn(at least for you), don't bother learning it.
I'm not contrary to a little bit of extra learning so you can answer random questions posed by your friends; it's when people spend an extra year or two in the classroom for that knowledge that bothers me.

If they are not wasting your time or money, then why should you be bothered by it? I have taken several extra classes just because I was curious about the subject and wanted to know more. I enjoy learning about the subjects and received personal satisfaction and pleasure from learning.

 

[Braunwyn]

Course not, but the thread is asking if you would "learn for learnings sake."
If there is no point or tangible application of the knowledge you learn(at least for you), don't bother learning it.
I'm not contrary to a little bit of extra learning so you can answer random questions posed by your friends; it's when people spend an extra year or two in the classroom for that knowledge that bothers me.

I don't recall the OP very well since it's been a few days but I don't think it mentioned an absence of application. I really can't imagine not using learned information in some way or another, especially if devoted study is involved. My guess is that the OP is focussing on learning that doesn't lend to a pay check.

 

[MaxP]

If they are not wasting your time or money, then why should you be bothered by it? I have taken several extra classes just becuase I was curious about the subject and wanted to know more. I enjoy learning about the subjects and recived personal satisfaction and pleasure from learning.

I have no problem with that.
It's just when people spend much of their lives in the pursuit of already-discovered knowledge.
You're right, it's not my problem, but IMHO it seems a waste of years.

Although one can make the argument all of human development has been a result of the pursuit of knowledge for knowledge's sake.

 

[Braunwyn]

What about those that study subjects that they think will bring return (in one way or another) but it fails to in the end.

 

[rambot]

I love this topic frankly.
For those people who do learn for the sake of learning, I think it's wonderful. I think that as humans, we become almost totally useless them minute we give up on learning anything.

For people who want to learn more about a given area of knowledge (say, a fella who is obsessed with water borne bacteria), he could go to school for quite a while to learn what he needs to know. He could also get a job at a city water treatment centre. At that job, he would get to apply his knowledge AND continually learn (and teach!). So learning always happens, even outside of school.

But for this thread, I think "learning for the sake of learning" is probably meant to be "going to school for the sake of gaining knowledge".

However, I also think that some people fall back to that position because of some unmentionable force that is keeping them scared (worried, overwhelmed, etc...) from entering a workforce.

Simply put, school (unis, etc) are more enjoyable places to be than an office.

At least in my opinion.

 

[MaxP]

What about those that study subjects that they think will bring return (in one way or another) but it fails to in the end.

At least they thought it would apply.
Making a mistake is different then just learning something to box it up in your head for eternity.

 

[Braunwyn]

At least they thought it would apply.
Making a mistake is different then just learning something to box it up in your head for eternity.

Well, what about personal growth? Can that be discounted for any area of study?

 

[a.d.ivNonasNovembres]

However, I also think that some people fall back to that position because of some unmentionable force that is keeping them scared (worried, overwhelmed, etc...) from entering a workforce.

Simply put, school (unis, etc) are more enjoyable places to be than an office.

Of course this is true but so what. Modern employment styles are unnatural.
I really am not going to feel bad about the fact I gave up spending my time doing what I considered to be pointless, tedious (and occasionally even morally dubious) work in order to spend my time in the pursuit of knowledge for its own sake, something I believe to be noble in itself.

 

[MaxP]

Well, what about personal growth? Can that be discounted for any area of study?

Well, even personal growth is an application, one that affects every aspect of life.

I suppose my real problem is when people waste their life learning to "look smart."

 

[a.d.ivNonasNovembres]

Well, even personal growth is an application, one that affects every aspect of life.

I suppose my real problem is when people waste their life learning to "look smart."

Do you also have a problem with people wasting their life in order to "look hardworking"?