Lead us, not into temptation...

[98cwitr]

Why did Jesus teach us to ask God to not lead us into temptation, when James 1:13 says He does not tempt?

 

[twin1954]

Why did Jesus teach us to ask God to not lead us into temptation, when James 1:13 says He does not tempt?

God does not tempt us but as He did to Abraham He does bring us to the place of temptation in order to teach us. What the Lord is teaching is that we are to seek that God not allow us to be tempted. We fail far too many times when He does.

 

[98cwitr]

So comparing these in context....:

Proverbs 16:9 New King James Version (NKJV)
9 A man’s heart plans his way,
But the Lord directs his steps.

Proverbs 6:18
A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that are swift in running to evil,

Romans 3:15
“Their feet are swift to shed blood;

Does God's Sovereignty dictate that the non-elect will continue to sin because He directs their steps to do so?

Romans 1:22-24

22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.

 

[twin1954]

Then why did Jesus teach us to ask?

We have not because we ask not.

The prayer is a model not a prayer to be repeated. I preached a message on it a while ago so I will have to go back to my notes to show you the different aspects of it.

Suffice to say that the prayer is one that recognizes that God is in control and Sovereign. He knows our needs but we are also taught to ask for our daily bread and the forgiveness of sin. He still gives us those things even though we do not always ask for them. The teaching about not leading us into temptation is nothing more than teaching us to seek the will of God. We do not want to be tempted but we also recognize the sovereignty of God in it when we are. We are told that we will not be tempted more than we can bear.

 

[DeaconDean]

The prayer is a model not a prayer to be repeated.

It is amazing how many people who think we can repeat this prayer.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Goodbook]

You seem to lack a basic understanding of who God is, and who satan is.

Ok. We ask God to lead us NOT into temptation but to deliever us from evil. We ask because we want to follow God and following God will not lead us in the way of temptation, which is where satan can get to us. If we are not following God, of course we are going to be tempted.

And its true God does not tempt us! Satan does.

 

[Goodbook]

The second post, no, God does not direct the steps of the wicked, they are not following God so they will fall into their own pit or victim to Satan.

GOd gives us free will. So if we decide not to acknowledge who he is then he cant make us love Him, and we can choose to follow our sinful desires instead.

We are humans and not robots. Thats the thing. GOd gave us a will, and a choice. He didnt make some humans irredeemably bad and some humans completely perfect. We are all a mixture and have a sinful nature except for Jesus who was sinless and perfect. Thats why he had to die for our sins.

 

[Goodbook]

As for the third part of your post, no because the good news is Jesus died and rose again for all mankind, not just for the jew but the gentiles as well. People only have to beleive and put their trust in Him to be redeemed. Even the most hardened sinner can be transformed and it doesnt matter if he or she is one of the chosen or elect i.e, jewish/israelite or non-elect ie. gentile/heathen.

 

[Goodbook]

I would suggest that you read the bible in order from Genesis to Revelation not missing any bits out or chopping and changing verses. Like you would a normal book. Then you will start to see how everything fits.

It seems to me you are just taking some verses here and there without any kind of context at all to fit a preconceived doctrine. Well, you have to throw that out the window and let God show you. Pray and ask for wisdom anything you dont understand.

 

[twin1954]

I would suggest that you read the bible in order from Genesis to Revelation not missing any bits out or chopping and changing verses. Like you would a normal book. Then you will start to see how everything fits.

It seems to me you are just taking some verses here and there without any kind of context at all to fit a preconceived doctrine. Well, you have to throw that out the window and let God show you. Pray and ask for wisdom anything you dont understand.

Would it be possible for you to click on the reply button on the post you are responding to? Just making comments in response without a reference to who you are responding to is confusing.

 

[JM]

Personally, I believe it's ok to pray the scriptures and do so often.

When I’m not sure what to pray for, when I know what to pray for but can’t seem to find the words or when I find a passage of scripture that sticks in my mind I pray it. I found the following prayer in one of my old journals. I’ll post it here to encourage others to pray the scriptures. Praying the scriptures has lead me to better and more frequent ruminations on the word and I personally found this manner of praying to be a perfect preparation for those sweet moments of reflection and meditation upon God’s word. It has been a helpful practice an essential practice for me personally to pray in this manner.

(Eph1:1) Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Father, I thank you for the Holy Spirit, who brings life giving power, who made this unworthy sinner alive!

(1:2) Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

It is because of your dear son Jesus Christ I can approach you, by His blood I can enter into this Holy Place of prayer and receive forgiveness.

(1:3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

With my soul renewed, communion with you revived, I now see the sinfulness of my sin. Let me love you dear Jesus with my whole heart and life.

(1:4-5) According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

You are truly a merciful God who remembers my sin no more. I beg you for continued mercy, that I may glorify you with my life, even when I know I do not deserve it.

(1:6) To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

In Christ I was raised from the ruination of my past sins where I now abide above positionally in Christ in heaven and I thank you Lord.

(1:7) In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Lord God I thank you for Jesus! Oh how I love my Saviour…who bled and died, displaying love and purchasing grace that’s so amazing.

(1:8) Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

And that gift of faith Dear Father, the salvation you wrought in my life, will always be before my eyes. Jesus will always be in my heart. Holy Spirit enable me to live as you have called me to live, as salt and light. In Jesus name I pray. Amen

____________________________________

As for the question, "lead us not..." I believe is a request to not test us in a manner that causes us to fall.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[98cwitr]

As for the third part of your post, no because the good news is Jesus died and rose again for all mankind, not just for the jew but the gentiles as well. People only have to beleive and put their trust in Him to be redeemed. Even the most hardened sinner can be transformed and it doesnt matter if he or she is one of the chosen or elect i.e, jewish/israelite or non-elect ie. gentile/heathen.

Elect doesn't mean you're a jew. I think you may want to research who the elect are. See Romans 11.

 

[twin1954]

Personally, I believe it's ok to pray the scriptures and do so often.

When I’m not sure what to pray for, when I know what to pray for but can’t seem to find the words or when I find a passage of scripture that sticks in my mind I pray it. I found the following prayer in one of my old journals. I’ll post it here to encourage others to pray the scriptures. Praying the scriptures has lead me to better and more frequent ruminations on the word and I personally found this manner of praying to be a perfect preparation for those sweet moments of reflection and meditation upon God’s word. It has been a helpful practice an essential practice for me personally to pray in this manner.

(Eph1:1) Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Father, I thank you for the Holy Spirit, who brings life giving power, who made this unworthy sinner alive!

(1:2) Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

It is because of your dear son Jesus Christ I can approach you, by His blood I can enter into this Holy Place of prayer and receive forgiveness.

(1:3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

With my soul renewed, communion with you revived, I now see the sinfulness of my sin. Let me love you dear Jesus with my whole heart and life.

(1:4-5) According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

You are truly a merciful God who remembers my sin no more. I beg you for continued mercy, that I may glorify you with my life, even when I know I do not deserve it.

(1:6) To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

In Christ I was raised from the ruination of my past sins where I now abide above positionally in Christ in heaven and I thank you Lord.

(1:7) In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Lord God I thank you for Jesus! Oh how I love my Saviour…who bled and died, displaying love and purchasing grace that’s so amazing.

(1:8) Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

And that gift of faith Dear Father, the salvation you wrought in my life, will always be before my eyes. Jesus will always be in my heart. Holy Spirit enable me to live as you have called me to live, as salt and light. In Jesus name I pray. Amen

____________________________________

As for the question, "lead us not..." I believe is a request to not test us in a manner that causes us to fall.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

I have no problem with praying the Scriptures. Prayer is a reminder to us of the promises of God and His goodness and mercy toward us. The kind of prayer you gave is actually fantastic.

What I do have a problem with is rote recital of the model the Lord gave us. It is called the Lord's prayer bu that is not the case. He wasn't praying when He gave it He was teaching by a model what prayer is and how we are to bow to God in it with thanksgiving and worship. To recite it as though it is what we are to pray in a rote fashion without any heart as many do is simply wrong.

Te Lord didn't say pray this prayer He said when you pray in this manner.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

Why did Jesus teach us to ask God to not lead us into temptation, when James 1:13 says He does not tempt?

You brought up great verses

The line in question is:
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

Is it possible the lead us not into temptation ties into the deliver us from evil? Possibly from the tempter/satan?

 

[mikedsjr]

I have no problems reciting the Lord's Prayer every day, if you so choose.

98, good original question. Not sure what the answer is, but I would imagine a reasonable answer exists.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mikedsjr]

I heard someone say there is a clear distinction between testing by God and temptation by Satan, yet we might not distinguish between the two on our end. God's testing is done for the purpose of good to come out of it. Temptation is done by Satan and his demons for purely evil outcome to come from it.

If...if that is the case, maybe "lead us not into temptation" may mean lead us not on a path towards Satan's tempting, but deliver us into another way around.

Just guessing. I know that's condemned by some.


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[PrettyboyAndy]

Why did Jesus teach us to ask God to not lead us into temptation, when James 1:13 says He does not tempt?

Scripture can not be broken, so: James 1:13 - Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: is true

Therefore it can not be God who tempts, it must be someone else.

So comparing these in context....:


Proverbs 6:18
A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that are swift in running to evil,

Romans 3:15
“Their feet are swift to shed blood;

Does God's Sovereignty dictate that the non-elect will continue to sin because He directs their steps to do so?

Romans 1:22-24

22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.

Proverbs 16:9 - A man’s heart plans his way, But the Lord directs his steps.

God directs the steps, but also doesn't tempt us.

But thats a great point, Very interesting

 

[98cwitr]

I heard someone say there is a clear distinction between testing by God and temptation by Satan, yet we might not distinguish between the two on our end. God's testing is done for the purpose of good to come out of it. Temptation is done by Satan and his demons for purely evil outcome to come from it.

If...if that is the case, maybe "lead us not into temptation" may mean lead us not on a path towards Satan's tempting, but deliver us into another way around.

Just guessing. I know that's condemned by some.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think you might be onto something Mike. We see Scripture where God "hands those over to their sinful desires." (Romans 1:24) Maybe this is the Lord's way of teaching us to pray in saying "Don't give up on us."

 

[twin1954]

The two Greek words peirasmos, temptation, and poneros, evil, have a different meaning than the modern understanding. The word for temptation has the primary meaning of a trial that does good and the word evil is labor and toil. That should help clear up what the Lord is saying.

 

[98cwitr]

Just for reference:

πειρασμός,n \{pi-ras-mos'}
1) an experiment, attempt, trial, proving 1a) trial, proving: the trial made of you by my bodily condition, since condition served as to test the love of the Galatians toward Paul (Gal. 4:14) 1b) the trial of man's fidelity, integrity, virtue, constancy 1b1) an enticement to sin, temptation, whether arising from the desires or from the outward circumstances 1b2) an internal temptation to sin 1b2a) of the temptation by which the devil sought to divert Jesus the Messiah from his divine errand 1b3) of the condition of things, or a mental state, by which we are enticed to sin, or to a lapse from the faith and holiness 1b4) adversity, affliction, trouble: sent by God and serving to test or prove one's character, faith, holiness 1c) temptation (i.e. trial) of God by men 1c1) rebellion against God, by which his power and justice are, as it were, put to the proof and challenged to show themselves

πονηρός,a \{pon-ay-ros'}
1) full of labours, annoyances, hardships 1a) pressed and harassed by labours 1b) bringing toils, annoyances, perils; of a time full of peril to Christian faith and steadfastness; causing pain and trouble 2) bad, of a bad nature or condition 2a) in a physical sense: diseased or blind 2b) in an ethical sense: evil wicked, bad

Other Scripture:

http://biblehub.com/greek/3986.htm
http://biblehub.com/greek/4190.htm

James 1:13 uses:

πειράζω,v \{pi-rad'-zo}
1) to try whether a thing can be done 1a) to attempt, endeavour 2) to try, make trial of, test: for the purpose of ascertaining his quantity, or what he thinks, or how he will behave himself 2a) in a good sense 2b) in a bad sense, to test one maliciously, craftily to put to the proof his feelings or judgments 2c) to try or test one's faith, virtue, character, by enticement to sin 2c1) to solicit to sin, to tempt 1c1a) of the temptations of the devil 2d) after the OT usage 2d1) of God: to inflict evils upon one in order to prove his character and the steadfastness of his faith 2d2) men are said to tempt God by exhibitions of distrust, as though they wished to try whether he is not justly distrusted 2d3) by impious or wicked conduct to test God's justice and patience, and to challenge him, as it were to give proof of his perfections.

Im no greek scholar, but is the root of the word "peira?"

http://biblehub.com/text/james/1-13.htm

It would seem the root is the same, but the morphology is different.