LDS LDS The Telestial Kingdom

[Jamesone5]

I left when your letter of resignation meant you were excommunicated!

And I had to wait for some 22 years to be excommunicated by the Church or have my name taken off the Rolls. It is a two-way street by the way.

It may have been my Mormon genealogy that caused them to drag their feet on this, as I first asked for my name to be taken off the rolls back in about 1996 and I have the letter finally, which of course tells me that I am taken off their Rolls of the CofJCof LDS and adds the caveat, "if you want to come back to the fold--here is how you can do it'

 

[Andrewn]

And I had to wait for some 22 years to be excommunicated by the Church or have my name taken off the Rolls. It is a two-way street by the way.

Why was it important for you to seek being officially excommunicated? Why not just start attending in a different denomination and forget about LDS?

 

[Jamesone5]

Why was it important for you to seek being officially excommunicated? Why not just start attending in a different denomination and forget about LDS?

That was my point that I realized after awhile. But they bolster their Membership by including us.

 

[He is the way]

How many judgments are there? Do LDS believe in 3 judgments:

1) At death to determine whether they go to Paradise or Spirit Prison / Hades; and

2) At 1st resurrection before the Millennium for those in Paradise and some of those in Hades to determine whether they go to the Celestial or Terrestrial Kingdoms; and

3) At 2nd resurrection after the Millennium for the rest of those in Hades to determine whether they go to Telestial Kingdom or Outer Darkness?

Phoebe Ann provided an excellent link:

Chapter 46: The Final Judgment

 

[He is the way]

How many good works are enough for to pass this great white throne judgment? Do you decide or does your Church authorities? And the Lord knows our hearts here:

Ecc. 12:14
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Me?

I am aiming for having my name written in the book of life.
Here is a sampling of that which you provided:

Rev. 20:12
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Or:





Revelation 3:5
He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels

Those who overcome the world will not have their name blotted out of the book of life:

(New Testament | 1 John 5:1 - 5)

1 WHOSOEVER believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

 

[BigDaddy4]

And I had to wait for some 22 years to be excommunicated by the Church or have my name taken off the Rolls. It is a two-way street by the way.

It may have been my Mormon genealogy that caused them to drag their feet on this, as I first asked for my name to be taken off the rolls back in about 1996 and I have the letter finally, which of course tells me that I am taken off their Rolls of the CofJCof LDS and adds the caveat, "if you want to come back to the fold--here is how you can do it'

Did you get the part about your decision has eternal consequences included in your letter? It was in my wife's when she received her letter. Hers was a matter of months, not years, to be taken off. And she has some solid genealogy, too. I guess some of her relatives could be traced back to the BY trek to Utah.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Why was it important for you to seek being officially excommunicated? Why not just start attending in a different denomination and forget about LDS?

I don't know about Jamesone5, but my wife wanted nothing to do with the lds organization, even though much of her family was still practicing or at least on the membership rolls. As much as she could control, she did not want her name and our kids' names traced so future generations could "baptize for the dead" after we pass away. Granted, there are other ways to obtain that information, but she didn't want to make it easy for them!

When one realizes all the lies they were told and believed by that organization, one may want to cut ties with it as much as possible. They really screw up some peoples' lives with their beliefs and/or teachings.

 

[Andrewn]

Phoebe Ann provided an excellent link: Chapter 46: The Final Judgment

A little observation: in all the discussions over the last 2 Mo, I've noticed a general unwillingness to give simple explanations and yes-or-no answers. Instead, the tendency is to quote articles or scriptures and to ignore questions and comments that may have no articles addressing them.

 

[He is the way]

A little observation: in all the discussions over the last 2 Mo, I've noticed a general unwillingness to give simple explanations and yes-or-no answers. Instead, the tendency is to quote articles or scriptures and to ignore questions and comments that may have no articles addressing them.

That was not a yes or no question:

"How many judgments are there? Do LDS believe in 3 judgments:

1) At death to determine whether they go to Paradise or Spirit Prison / Hades; and

2) At 1st resurrection before the Millennium for those in Paradise and some of those in Hades to determine whether they go to the Celestial or Terrestrial Kingdoms; and

3) At 2nd resurrection after the Millennium for the rest of those in Hades to determine whether they go to Telestial Kingdom or Outer Darkness?"

It is a doctrine question and what better way than to post a link to that doctrine?

 

[Jamesone5]

Did you get the part about your decision has eternal consequences included in your letter? It was in my wife's when she received her letter. Hers was a matter of months, not years, to be taken off. And she has some solid genealogy, too. I guess some of her relatives could be traced back to the BY trek to Utah.

Yes, they referred to the eternal consequences in that letter, but the thing that got me was I was always welcomed back. I, over the years, sent a request 3 times and at least the first time, the bishop had buried my request at the bottom of his file cabinet--as I found out from the succeeding bishop.

I live in an area of a huge amount of jack Mormons, so it may have been a numbers thing where they dragged their feet. And it is somewhat of a cultural thing, as around here it is probably at least 40% Mormon. They do tend at times to "take care of their own"

Also, I am a descendant of Hyrum Smith and then Lot Smith---no apparent relation between the two Smiths. There is some kind of monument to Lot Smith in Utah, as he led the Church's response in the Mormon Wars back in the 1850's. I am a descendant of him and one of his 8 wives.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Yes, they referred to the eternal consequences in that letter, but the thing that got me was I was always welcomed back. I, over the years, sent a request 3 times and at least the first time, the bishop had buried my request at the bottom of his file cabinet--as I found out from the succeeding bishop.

I live in an area of a huge amount of jack Mormons, so it may have been a numbers thing where they dragged their feet. And it is somewhat of a cultural thing, as around here it is probably at least 40% Mormon. They do tend at times to "take care of their own"

Also, I am a descendant of Hyrum Smith and then Lot Smith---no apparent relation between the two Smiths. There is some kind of monument to Lot Smith in Utah, as he led the Church's response in the Mormon Wars back in the 1850's. I am a descendant of him and one of his 8 wives.

Oh my. Sorry to hear the trouble you went through. Praise God you're out of it, though! My wife sent hers directly to SLC I believe. It's kinda weird at family gatherings, but I definitely do not live in an area like you do.

 

[Rescued One]

Why was it important for you to seek being officially excommunicated? Why not just start attending in a different denomination and forget about LDS?

I told them to stop visiting me each month. Those who were supposed to visit me might feel bad for not doing that assignment. I tend to have a lot of compassion. Anyway, three years after I left, I received a visit asking if I would welcome their visits again and I said, "No." Sometime after that our home teacher came and asked me to write a letter stating that I no longer wished to be a member. I did, and shortly thereafter received the excommunication letter, telling me, among other things, that I should repent. It was a form letter which obviously showed that the author knew nothing about me(quite annoying)! My non-Christian mother who had been baptized, left a week after her baptism, and moved frequently from state to state and twice overseas, and they never contacted her again. They were baptizing non-Christians who didn't even believe in Mormonism!

 

[He is the way]

Oh my. Sorry to hear the trouble you went through. Praise God you're out of it, though! My wife sent hers directly to SLC I believe. It's kinda weird at family gatherings, but I definitely do not live in an area like you do.

People will leave due to misunderstandings:

(New Testament | John 6:60 - 66)

60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
66 ¶ From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

 

[Rescued One]

I haven't run across any direct ancestors who were Mormons except my mother who doesn't count. But my second great-grandmother had a brother whose granddaugter became a Mormon. The other slightly interesting fact was that my ancestors lived somewhat near to Kirtland, Ohio, in 1820.

 

[Jamesone5]

Oh my. Sorry to hear the trouble you went through. Praise God you're out of it, though! My wife sent hers directly to SLC I believe. It's kinda weird at family gatherings, but I definitely do not live in an area like you do.

The strength to endure has come from the Lord, to be sure.

 

[Jamesone5]

People will leave due to misunderstandings:

(New Testament | John 6:60 - 66)

60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
66 ¶ From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

And people will leave and join a True Church elsewhere because they are seeking the Lord's wisdom---and only the Lord's.

Proverbs 9:10
“The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

They realize eventually that they were only accepting what these LDS prophets were saying--- even though other Mormons utter their beliefs in the church and the prophets of that Church.

I have studied all the major points of what Joseph Smith wrote and what Brigham Young also wrote from Church resources. And, I basically pitted them against the Word {the Bible] and found that Mormonism comes up way short and even contradicts the Bible in so many places. No other conclusion than to realize then, that they were these:


Matthew 24:11
Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.

So my leaving was based on an UNDERSTANDING, not so-called misunderstandings.

 

[He is the way]

And people will leave and join a True Church elsewhere because they are seeking the Lord's wisdom---and only the Lord's.

Proverbs 9:10
“The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

They realize eventually that they were only accepting what these LDS prophets were saying--- even though other Mormons utter their beliefs in the church and the prophets of that Church.

I have studied all the major points of what Joseph Smith wrote and what Brigham Young also wrote from Church resources. And, I basically pitted them against the Word {the Bible] and found that Mormonism comes up way short and even contradicts the Bible in so many places. No other conclusion than to realize then, that they were these:


Matthew 24:11
Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.

So my leaving was based on an UNDERSTANDING, not so-called misunderstandings.

Many have been deceived, however there is a way to know:

(New Testament | Matthew 7:20)

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

 

[Jamesone5]

Many have been deceived, however there is a way to know:

(New Testament | Matthew 7:20)

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Uh, it is not that simple.

Discernment is partially to compare---what I had before as a Mormon and what I have now as a True Christian. You certainly cannot make that same comparison.

 

[He is the way]

Uh, it is not that simple.

Discernment is partially to compare---what I had before as a Mormon and what I have now as a True Christian. You certainly cannot make that same comparison.

Actually, it is that simple:

(New Testament | Matthew 7:16 - 21)

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

 

[Jamesone5]

Actually, it is that simple:

(New Testament | Matthew 7:16 - 21)

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Uh, can we judge ourselves and our fellow Members? That is what you are referring to here and it sounds like a bit of arrogance or being puffed up

Colossians 2:18
Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

1 Corinthians 13:4
Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up;