LDS Temples and the Ancient Jerusalem Temple(s)

[NYCGuy]

The LDS Church claims that it is a restoration of the original Church established by Jesus Christ. It claims that, in addition to newly revealed beliefs and practices, it has also restored ancient ones. LDS claim to be unique in having temples, and believe that their temples are patterned after the ancient temple(s).

So I'm wondering, how do LDS see the rituals done in LDS temples in relation to those done in the Jerusalem Temple? Was the Endowment done in the Jerusalem Temple? What is the evidence of this? From what I have seen, the Jerusalem Temple was a place of sacrifice, singing psalms, and various feasts. Yes, I know we won't be able to discuss specifics.

 

[drstevej]

There was a single Temple in Jerusalem. LDS have many.

Proxy baptisms were not done in Jerusalem. That is an LDS novelty.

 

[southcountry]

What if God really doesnt want us thinking theres some kind of power in stupid rocks. Maybe God commanded them to build it in the OT to show us how pathetic man really is.


And he said unto me, Go in, and behold the wicked abominations that they do here.
So I went in and saw; and behold every form of creeping things, and abominable beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel, portrayed upon the wall round about.






And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD'S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.

We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.

God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

Solomons temple is NOT something you would want to re-create, although there are those who do.

 

[Moodshadow]

LDS temples are not like Solomon's temple. They are totally based on LDS doctrine, with some strong Masonic influence. People perform ordinances, including endowments, live marriages and vicarious work (baptisms, priesthood ordinations and sealings of families) for their (and others') dead ancestors. If that kind of work went on in Solomon's temple, someone will have to remind of where to learn about it, because I don't remember reading about it in the Bible.

 

[southcountry]

LDS temples are not like Solomon's temple. They are totally based on LDS doctrine, with some strong Masonic influence. People perform ordinances, including endowments, live marriages and vicarious work (baptisms, priesthood ordinations and sealings of families) for their (and others') dead ancestors. If that kind of work went on in Solomon's temple, someone will have to remind of where to learn about it, because I don't remember reading about it in the Bible.

Key word Masonic influence. Study on the relationship between the two. ( masons and solomons temple)

 

[Der Alte]

Should there not be standing temples and ruins of temples throughout the Americas dating back centuries to the time when the Nephites, Lamanites, etc. first came to this hemisphere from Israel?

 

[Ran77]

The LDS Church claims that it is a restoration of the original Church established by Jesus Christ. It claims that, in addition to newly revealed beliefs and practices, it has also restored ancient ones. LDS claim to be unique in having temples, and believe that their temples are patterned after the ancient temple(s).

So I'm wondering, how do LDS see the rituals done in LDS temples in relation to those done in the Jerusalem Temple? Was the Endowment done in the Jerusalem Temple? What is the evidence of this? From what I have seen, the Jerusalem Temple was a place of sacrifice, singing psalms, and various feasts. Yes, I know we won't be able to discuss specifics.

We certainly don't have a dearth of opinions from non-LDS about the subject.


I am willing to discuss this matter with you, keeping in mind that I won't go into details about the ordinances. That still leaves plenty to discuss. The LDS see a connection to previous temple use. In some cases, we can point to verses in the Bible that support it. And there is a fair amount which is not directly mentioned.

Please keep in mind that the nature of the work that took place in the temple changed somewhat after Jesus sacrificed Himself for us. Meaning that Old Testament references will be focused on the Sacrifice to come, rather than the deed that was accomplished.

Where would you like to start?

 

[bbbbbbb]

We certainly don't have a dearth of opinions from non-LDS about the subject.


I am willing to discuss this matter with you, keeping in mind that I won't go into details about the ordinances. That still leaves plenty to discuss. The LDS see a connection to previous temple use. In some cases, we can point to verses in the Bible that support it. And there is a fair amount which is not directly mentioned.

Please keep in mind that the nature of the work that took place in the temple changed somewhat after Jesus sacrificed Himself for us. Meaning that Old Testament references will be focused on the Sacrifice to come, rather than the deed that was accomplished.

Where would you like to start?

Ah yes, where to begin? Let's start with the utter and complete absence of any physical remains of any building remotely resembling an LDS temple prior to the Kirtland Temple (which itself bore little resemblance to current LDS temples). A previous poster noted this very disturbing anomaly.

 

[southcountry]

Im thinking more along the lines of what Jesus is doing for us before the throne of the Creator, not what are we doing for him in a building made out of stones that will crumble to ashes.

No, he doesnt want lamb sacrifices, smoking incense, holy water, or huge buildings.

All he wants is for humble people to stop the insanity long enough to realize it is he who created the great expanse, every galaxy and every star in them. Stand amazed that he will bring it all to destruction to defeat the enemy. And all will be created anew without the oppressor.

 

[Ran77]

Ah yes, where to begin? Let's start with the utter and complete absence of any physical remains of any building remotely resembling an LDS temple prior to the Kirtland Temple (which itself bore little resemblance to current LDS temples). A previous poster noted this very disturbing anomaly.

I find it amusing that whenever someone asks the LDS to discuss a topic, all of the critics jump in with great enthusiasm.

 

[timewerx]

What if God really doesnt want us thinking theres some kind of power in stupid rocks. Maybe God commanded them to build it in the OT to show us how pathetic man really is.

Likely to be the case.

LDS temples are not like Solomon's temple. They are totally based on LDS doctrine, with some strong Masonic influence.

Freemasonry hold a great reverence to Solomon. The Freemasonry ring is based upon Solomon's Seal ring.

There's still a connection somewhat.

It's difficult to tell that Freemasonry is an entirely different entity from Judaism or Zionism. Many rituals, symbols, etc are the same. Even the Freemasonry symbol is a hexagram without the horizontal lines.

 

[joneysd]

The LDS Church claims that it is a restoration of the original Church established by Jesus Christ. It claims that, in addition to newly revealed beliefs and practices, it has also restored ancient ones. LDS claim to be unique in having temples, and believe that their temples are patterned after the ancient temple(s).

So I'm wondering, how do LDS see the rituals done in LDS temples in relation to those done in the Jerusalem Temple? Was the Endowment done in the Jerusalem Temple? What is the evidence of this? From what I have seen, the Jerusalem Temple was a place of sacrifice, singing psalms, and various feasts. Yes, I know we won't be able to discuss specifics.

I'm not sure if the jews did temple marriage ceremonies, used masonic symbols or rites in the temple or baptism for the dead in the temple but I could be wrong.

 

[Der Alte]

I find it amusing that whenever someone asks the LDS to discuss a topic, all of the critics jump in with great enthusiasm.

I find it equally amusing that whenever someone asks the LDS to discuss a topic, the LDS avoid it like the plague, except to criticize others who do offer discussions. Just sayin'.

 

[Ran77]

I find it equally amusing that whenever someone asks the LDS to discuss a topic, the LDS avoid it like the plague, except to criticize others who do offer discussions. Just sayin'.

I guess you missed that I have already begun discussing the matter. Which, of course, invalidates your observation.


:o

 

[NYCGuy]

We certainly don't have a dearth of opinions from non-LDS about the subject.


I am willing to discuss this matter with you, keeping in mind that I won't go into details about the ordinances. That still leaves plenty to discuss. The LDS see a connection to previous temple use. In some cases, we can point to verses in the Bible that support it. And there is a fair amount which is not directly mentioned.

Please keep in mind that the nature of the work that took place in the temple changed somewhat after Jesus sacrificed Himself for us. Meaning that Old Testament references will be focused on the Sacrifice to come, rather than the deed that was accomplished.

Where would you like to start?

Yes, we won't go into details of the ordinances. Full disclosure, as a former LDS, I have participated in all of the temple ordinances, numerous times.

My main question is in specifically the purpose of temples and what goes on in them. Claiming to restore the ancient temple, there must be some sort of continuity with them in some sense if it is to be claimed a "restoration". We know that proxy baptisms and confirmations were not done, nor were eternal marriages. Perhaps those are viewed as ordinances that came after the Old Testament temple. So then that would leave the Endowment. How do you view the Endowment in relation to what was going on in the Jerusalem Temple? Were they performing Endowments there?

 

[Der Alte]

I guess you missed that I have already begun discussing the matter. Which, of course, invalidates your observation.

:o

No! I missed nothing. I saw where you said something to the effect, "Where would you like to start?." That is not "discussing the matter."

 

[Ran77]

No! I missed nothing. I saw where you said something to the effect, "Where would you like to start?." That is not "discussing the matter."

If you missed nothing, then you should have noticed this:

"Please keep in mind that the nature of the work that took place in the temple changed somewhat after Jesus sacrificed Himself for us. Meaning that Old Testament references will be focused on the Sacrifice to come, rather than the deed that was accomplished."

That is a start of a discussion on this topic. It is actually discussing the matter. It's a shame that our critics are so eager to find fault with us that they will attempt criticism, like yours, that is obviously incorrect.

Maybe you could focus on the topic itself rather than the LDS.

 

[Ran77]

Yes, we won't go into details of the ordinances. Full disclosure, as a former LDS, I have participated in all of the temple ordinances, numerous times.

Excellent. With those formalities out of the way, let's begin.

My main question is in specifically the purpose of temples and what goes on in them.

The purposes of the temple are:

1) A place of spiritual instruction.

2) A place where important covenants are made with God.

3) A place where important ordinances can be done for the dead.

4) The house of God.

To sum it up, the purpose of temples are to provide a way back to Heavenly Father.

Claiming to restore the ancient temple, there must be some sort of continuity with them in some sense if it is to be claimed a "restoration".

I'd like to see those claims. Please, provide a link or a quote where I can look at what you are referencing here. While the LDS doctrines are a restoration of the gospel taught by Christ, I'm not sure that we claim to have restored the ancient temple. At least, not in those exact terms.

We know that proxy baptisms and confirmations were not done, nor were eternal marriages.

Except, proxy batpisms were performed. If you choose to reject that notion, that's up to you, but I'm pretty sure the OP asked what the LDS thought about the topic.

1 Corinthians 15: 29

29. Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?


As an argument in support of the resurrection of the dead, Paul appeals to logic, explaining that it makes no sense for them to do baptisms for the dead if the dead did not rise.

Perhaps those are viewed as ordinances that came after the Old Testament temple. So then that would leave the Endowment. How do you view the Endowment in relation to what was going on in the Jerusalem Temple? Were they performing Endowments there?

Do you mean the Temple of Herod?

Exodus 26 discusses the Holy of Holies. This was divided from the Holy place by a veil. The outer court of the temple was used by the people. I'm not sure how much description of what took place in the Holy of Holies is described in the Bible. But then again, the Bible makes many comments about the mysteries of God and it is not surprising to me that this would be one of them.

I believe that they were performing Endowments there. I'd have to do some research to tell you what the stance of the Church is on the matter.

 

[Moodshadow]

It is your belief that endowments were done there. Just speaking theoretically now...if you discovered in your research that the church "believes" otherwise, would you then believe otherwise?

 

[skylark1]

Exodus 26 discusses the Holy of Holies. This was divided from the Holy place by a veil. The outer court of the temple was used by the people. I'm not sure how much description of what took place in the Holy of Holies is described in the Bible. But then again, the Bible makes many comments about the mysteries of God and it is not surprising to me that this would be one of them.

Hebrews 9 states the the High Priest only entered the Holy of Holies once a year, and also goes into more detail about what took place there.

7 But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance.​

You might also want to read Leviticus 16, which discusses the Day of Atonement.