LDS LDS persecution complex

Ironhold said:

Yes.

One actual link is this one from Wikipedia about the aftermath of the Proposition 8 issue:

Protests against Proposition 8 supporters - Wikipedia

That brought to light the larger issue of LDS buildings being routinely targeted, even in the US.

The chapel I go to, for example, has been vandalized and broken into so often that the building caretaker has the cops on speed-dial. This includes one instance in which someone painted a pentagram on the front lawn and stapled a dead deer to it.

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Well that's disgusting.

Still, I don't want to seem like I'm arguing degree here, but some people pouring glue into the locks of a meeting house or whatever is really not comparable to having your church blown up by suicide bombers. It's vandalism, not terrorism.

Yes.

1. In 1989, the government of Ghana banned the church and the Jehovah's Witnesses, in part because of fears that the two organizations were fronts for the CIA. It was nearly two years before the ban was lifted.

GHANA BANS LDS CHURCH, WITNESSES<BR> ORDER GIVING MISSIONARIES 1 WEEK TO LEAVE SURPRISES MORMON LEADERS

Various accounts hold that this ban *also* came after at least one professional anti-Mormon author lobbied government leaders as well.

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Okay, see. There ya go. I would count that as persecution (even though it's not really theologically-based as things are in the Middle East/North Africa, it's still restricting your rights, and that's not acceptable). Thank you for informing me of this.

2. There's a massive push in Russia to restrict "foreign" religions, and the LDS faith is often singled out by Russian politicians and pundits as a big part of why they want these restrictions in place.

This movement was in place at least as far back as 2012, which is when things got so intense NPR took notice:

In Russia, Pro-Putin Youths Protest Mormons As 'Cult'

3. During the 1980s, someone - professional critic J. Edward Decker has been accused in the past - began circulating rumors throughout South America that the CIA was hiding operatives among the LDS missionaries entering the region from America. A terrorism database that Wikipedia used to link to (website no longer works) recorded 124 incidents of anti-Mormon terror between the 1980s and early 2000s, with the vast majority of instances involving people in South America attacking LDS facilities and LDS missionaries as a result of this. This did, sadly, lead to a number of Mormons being killed.

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It appears that the LDS still operate in Russia, but have had to change the name which their missionaries operate under. Seems like kind of a grey area there, probably due to the (intentional?) vagueness of the law.

Also, if you take the third comment on that story as truthful, it seems that when Mormons used to work in Mexico under similar restrictions, they went by an acronym "M.I.A"...combine that with the missionary dress code, and I could see how that could get mutated into fears about Mormonism being connected to shady government agency activities/CIA front groups. (That in no way excuses any acts of violence against Mormons or their properties in Mexico or anywhere else, I just found it interesting; the comment-writer even quips that they were "the original Men In Black" -- that's not really a good thing in many contexts, but maybe Mormon missionaries of the time or now don't really understand the culture they're going into sometimes, same as any other missionaries.)

As of the 1990s, when a relative of mine was serving in South America, the rumors were still in circulation and - along with the perception that all Americans are rich - was still a massive stumbling block for efforts in the region.

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Well...I think that's a bit further than the kind of thing I was talking about. Basic rights and making things easy for foreign missionaries are not at all the same thing. If you encounter people who do not trust you or want you around, that's not persecution in itself.

1. There was a massive scandal when it was discovered that individuals within Obama's own re-election team were gearing up to circulate anti-Mormon propaganda and otherwise paint Romney as an "other" as part of their efforts. Given that Obama's team went to length to define anything and everything about Obama as "out of bounds" for discussion during the previous election, the prospect of his re-election team actively engaging in religious bigotry was a massive shock to the senses.

2. Someone or someones unknown engaged in mail fraud by sending menacing Christmas cards ostensibly from the Romney campaign and with the return address being an LDS temple.

3. It'd choke your browser if I started linking to all of the Christian essay sites, think sites, congregational sites, and others that ended up arguing or debating whether or not a mainline Christian could vote for Romney and still be considered to be "Christian".

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See the last comment above about the difference between having basic rights (which Mormons do) and having an easy time/less opposition to your movement (which neither Mormons nor anyone else could possibly be guaranteed in any way).

Also, don't miss the point I was making as you throw all this irrelevant stuff: The Mormons fielded a seriously-considered candidate for the presidency of the United States. Maybe it wasn't easy, but you did it, and were allowed to do it, and were quite successful. And rather than being forced to hide his Mormonism, I remember that at that time the media coverage on Romney focused a lot of interest on his beliefs. Granted, not all of it was positive, but it was not hidden, and to the extent that it was a deciding factor in his loss (which I'm not sure it was), that was manifested on the basis of individual choice on the part of those who would not vote for a Mormon, not on any a priori restrictions on voting for a Mormon comparable to the type that plague Christian and other religious or ethnoreligious minorities in various places throughout the world and account for the lack of representation in society commensurate with their numbers (which is what you would expect in a truly meritocratic society, particularly as Christians are generally better educated in the Middle East and North Africa than others), as discussed with regard to Egypt in the video of HG Bishop Suriel of the Coptic Orthodox Church of Australia.

So yeah... a lot of things went down.

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Some things. I definitely agree with you on the Ghana situation, which I was unaware of (and I am glad that the ban is no longer in place), but the rest of this stuff is not really comparable to what I am talking about, which are incidents of preplanned physical attack spurred on by months of preaching targeted hatred in government-sanctioned religious, edcuational, and media institutions; blatant government-sponsored restriction on basic human rights; etc. There's nothing like that in any of your stories with the exception of the Ghana example. (I don't believe Russia counts, because LDS still operate legally in Russia, and not being able to call missionaries by that particular label is really a rather low level of 'oppression' when they can continue on as usual by simply saying that they are volunteers.)

dzheremi said:

It's vandalism, not terrorism.

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Did you get to the part about the anthrax scares? Yeah; that's terrorism.

Okay, see. There ya go. I would count that as persecution (even though it's not really theologically-based as things are in the Middle East/North Africa, it's still restricting your rights, and that's not acceptable). Thank you for informing me of this.

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It's a recurring thing for more prominent critics of the church to go to some foreign country where the church doesn't have a strong presence and stir things up.

Israel? When Brigham Young University wanted to build an auxiliary there as a home base for students studying topics relating to the Middle East, a prominent critic tried to get the government to block the paperwork by alleging that the church would also use it as a base for missionaries. From what I understand, a lawyer the church hired in response to this was murdered because local militants regarded him as guilty by association.

Ghana? Like I said, word is that the ban was preceded by a prominent critic of the church lobbying the government.

South America? Ditto, and church members died as a result.

Wouldn't surprise me if some of these same individuals were at least partly to blame for what's going on in Russia.

Well...I think that's a bit further than the kind of thing I was talking about. Basic rights and making things easy for foreign missionaries are not at all the same thing. If you encounter people who do not trust you or want you around, that's not persecution in itself.

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The Russian politicos straight want us gone.

They basically want anyone who isn't Jewish, Eastern Orthodox, or Muslim out of the country, and we're being held up as the main cause celebre in getting it done.

Also, don't miss the point I was making as you throw all this irrelevant stuff: The Mormons fielded a seriously-considered candidate for the presidency of the United States.

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Remind me - did any of JFK's opponents have employees who were caught pressing the Catholic issue? Or was that all just third parties?

Daniel Marsh said:

"Delusions of Persecution: This is a phrase combining the term delusion (a false belief held despite significant contradictory evidence), with the term persecution (mistreatment, discrimination, or victimization). It refers to a falsely held belief or thought that another entity (person, multiple people or a group) is on a mission to harm or mistreat them."

• Source: Suspicious minds: the psychology of persecutory delusions. - PubMed - NCBI

Personal religiosity: There appears to be an link between individual religiosity and whether someone is likely to experience delusions of persecution. Those who have a faith of personal importance are less likely to experience delusions of persecution compared to atheists. The percentages compiled from research were 73% among those with faith, versus 87% among atheists.
Delusions Of Persecution: Causes, Symptoms, Treatment - Mental Health Daily

Above I only used parts that apply, ignore the rest, I do not think it relates.

Many religions have a false sense of being persecuted, small religious groups prescution complex - Google Search

hypersensitive persecutory complex - Google Search

"According to a recently released Pew Forum poll, a whopping 46% of Mormon respondents said that Mormons face “a lot of discrimination” in modern America. No surprise there, it is a favorite theme in LDS Church meetings at all levels."The Mormon Persecution Complex

"Among self-conscious Mormons and attuned outside observers, there is a popular perception that Mormons have a peculiar sense of their own reproach. Both their beliefs and their sociocultural history, some believe, breed Latter-day Saints to be acutely aware that they are beleaguered in broader society, a feeling that’s sometimes called a “persecution complex.” Mormons are, according to this line of thought, highly sensitive to their own social marginalization. Because of this sensitivity, they are likely to see hostility to their faith, whatever the circumstances."The Mormon 'persecution complex' | LDS Living


The article points out why right-wing religions are prone to persecution complex:Persecution Complex

"History is written by those who survive to tell the events as they want them told. The history of the Mormon Church is no different. What gets told is a colorful tapestry of events which have been recorded by Mormons, edited by Mormons, taught by Mormons, and told to Mormons. While the stories of the early days of the church involving Joseph Smith, the hardships and successes of the early members, the pioneer trek west, and the settlement and build-up of Salt Lake City are often considered inspiring and faith building, many of the actual historical facts are overlooked or simply ignored by the large population of the Latter-Day Saints (LDS). For example, many Mormons don’t know the original name of the church was Church of Christ, later modified to the Church of Latter-Day Saints, and finally, in "Mormon Persecution Complex | Seth Anderson

The Mormon Persecution Complex - the give and take of Mormon persecution

LDS persecution complex - Google Search

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I have a friend who was Mormon in his young adulthood and went to Mexico on a mission. I think he feels like he has to explain to people that Mormonism is just another boring conventional American phenomenon, like many churches. I kind of believe him, but I understand how people see it as "different" as well. I think it's ok for people to have their beliefs, but they just shouldn't expect others to change theirs. People don't have to agree with you to respect you. I usually talk to Mormon missionaries when I see them, especially because I ride my bike some. People have thought I was one before. The only time they [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ed me off is when they came to my old apartment complex because we didn't allow solicitation, which I think they have a policy of disregarding, but other than that they don't bother me that much.