LDS: Being Born Again Not Sufficient

[Rescued One]

A single experience of being "born again" does not alone insure salvation. It is also necessary for a person to "endure to the end," an essential element of the gospel of Christ (2 Ne. 31:20; 3 Ne. 27:16-17). The prophet Nephi taught that enduring to the end requires that one "feast upon the words of Christ," following the guidance of the Holy Ghost in "all things what ye should do" (2 Ne. 32:3-5). The gift of the Holy Ghost thus ensures that divine guidance and spiritual renewal take place throughout one's life, provided that the requisite repentance and humility are manifested.
Gift of the Holy Ghost

 

[Moodshadow]

A single experience of being "born again" does not alone insure salvation. It is also necessary for a person to "endure to the end," an essential element of the gospel of Christ (2 Ne. 31:20; 3 Ne. 27:16-17). The prophet Nephi taught that enduring to the end requires that one "feast upon the words of Christ," following the guidance of the Holy Ghost in "all things what ye should do" (2 Ne. 32:3-5). The gift of the Holy Ghost thus ensures that divine guidance and spiritual renewal take place throughout one's life, provided that the requisite repentance and humility are manifested.
Gift of the Holy Ghost

Yes, and added to this is the long string of commandments and temple rituals - all distinctly Mormon and all strictly required for what the Latter-day Saints call exaltation. Adherence to ALL is required or one is not worthy of eternal life.

 

[SoftSpoken]

A single experience of being "born again" does not alone insure salvation. It is also necessary for a person to "endure to the end," an essential element of the gospel of Christ (2 Ne. 31:20; 3 Ne. 27:16-17). The prophet Nephi taught that enduring to the end requires that one "feast upon the words of Christ," following the guidance of the Holy Ghost in "all things what ye should do" (2 Ne. 32:3-5). The gift of the Holy Ghost thus ensures that divine guidance and spiritual renewal take place throughout one's life, provided that the requisite repentance and humility are manifested.
Gift of the Holy Ghost

Nephi—an inspired prophet—taught true doctrine. He taught what the Savior taught:

"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." (Matt. 24:13)
​

 

[Rescued One]

Nephi—an inspired prophet—taught true doctrine.

He was a character in the Book of Mormon.

He taught what the Savior taught:

"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." (Matt. 24:13)
​

Those individuals who are saved with the new birth are the only ones who can endure to the end. Their sins were paid for by the blood of Jesus. We overcome the world and endure to the end, not by keeping Mormon commandments and rituals and temple ceremonies, but by our faith in Christ.

1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.(KJV)

for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.(NIV)

 

[Rescued One]

Yes, and added to this is the long string of commandments and temple rituals - all distinctly Mormon and all strictly required for what the Latter-day Saints call exaltation. Adherence to ALL is required or one is not worthy of eternal life.

Sadly, for those who cling to Mormonism, you are absolutely correct.

 

[Moodshadow]

Quite correct...being born again is a title which people in the church have given themselves to distinguish themselves from non evangelical christians (my guess).

Being born again means you have begun to abide in Gods word and are living a life which is in obedience to God's commands and with faith brought about by remaining daily in God's word.

Unfortunately that faith is supposed to lead a man into the spirit and into battle against the snares and wiles of the enemy. A fight of the faith is to be fought by sinners who are in the faith of Jesus which is supposed to result in a final victory over sin and dominion over the devil, resulting in sanctification or sainthood. Unfortunately the church does not instruct Christians in the nature of evil and how to defeat the enemy and obtain the victory of the faith. That is still coming in the evolution of church theology.

The victory of the faith is supposed to result in fallen men being transformed spiritually or resurrected into a higher state of consciousness, bearing the likeness of Jesus himself and able to perform the miracles of the early church saints.

But in Mormonism that faith is woefully insufficient, which is kinda-sorta the whole point of this thread. The LDS church teaches that obedience to the aforementioned commandments and engaging in the aforementioned rituals will bring a person the blessings of exaltation that faith alone - and indeed the atonement of Christ alone - cannot do. II Nephi 25:23 says, "It is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do." In this one verse alone Mormonism separates itself from the entire rest of Christendom.

 

[mannysee]

Moonshadow,

"It is by grace that we are saved, after all that we can do."

It's kinda funny. I suppose that an LDS instructed person has their own comprehension of that phrase, which involves their own effort for reconciliation with God."

However, when I think about the phrase, I suppose the gospel is there.
i.e.
All that I can do is nothing.
Jesus did it all.
I embrace the promises found in Him, and are thus saved by grace.

Or in other words, "God, I am done. Have mercy on me a sinner."

 

[Moodshadow]

Moonshadow,

"It is by grace that we are saved, after all that we can do."

It's kinda funny. I suppose that an LDS instructed person has their own comprehension of that phrase, which involves their own effort for reconciliation with God."

However, when I think about the phrase, I suppose the gospel is there.
i.e. All that I can do is nothing. Jesus did it all. I embrace the promises found in Him, and are thus saved by grace. Or in other words, "God, I am done. Have mercy on me a sinner."

"After all that we can do," to Mormons, involves the requirement of keeping extra-Biblical commandments and participating in temple rituals and making temple covenants. Some examples are the so-called Word of Wisdom, temple marriage, family sealings, etc. These things are necessary - not optional, according to Mormon doctrine - for a person whose goal is to achieve eternal life with God. All of this is above and beyond faith, repentance, baptism, and the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost, which they believe are only the first steps toward salvation/exaltation. Mormonism adds layer upon layer of complication to the plain and precious truths that Jesus taught in the New Testament.

 

[SoftSpoken]

All that I can do is nothing.
Jesus did it all.
I embrace the promises found in Him, and are thus saved by grace.

Or in other words, "God, I am done. Have mercy on me a sinner."

You, my friend, are absolutely correct. That is precisely what it means.

Gonna get two birds with one post here...

Moodshadow, there is nothing that is done beyond faith. Faith in Christ is the foundation of and reason for all that is done. It is why we "do."

 

[Moodshadow]

why [/B]we "do."

Nice try! Anyone who isn't really familiar with Mormonism wouldn't know, reading your oh-so-ecumenical-and-innocuous-sounding post, that it is 100% required of faithful Mormons - meaning those who follow Joseph Smith's prescribed path to eternal life - to go through an endowment ceremony in the temple during which they promise such devotion to secrecy that they swear to sacrifice their very lives rather than reveal those secrets. And no one would know that during that ceremony patrons also promise to wear sacred garments under their normal clothing 24/7 for the entire remainder of their mortal lives. And no one would know that patrons promise to sacrifice their means and their time and talents and their service to the church for the rest of their lives, doing whatever is asked of them by church authorities. Yes, I'd call that quite a degree of faith, all right. But I'd also say it does indeed, as has been mentioned before, fall well within the purview of II Nephi 25:23, which states, "We know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do." And in this uniquely Mormon verse the operative word is and always will be AFTER.

 

[SoftSpoken]

Nice try! Anyone who isn't really familiar with Mormonism wouldn't know, reading your oh-so-ecumenical-and-innocuous-sounding post, that it is 100% required of faithful Mormons - meaning those who follow Joseph Smith's prescribed path to eternal life - to go through an endowment ceremony in the temple during which they promise such devotion to secrecy that they swear to sacrifice their very lives rather than reveal those secrets. And no one would know that during that ceremony patrons also promise to wear sacred garments under their normal clothing 24/7 for the entire remainder of their mortal lives. And no one would know that patrons promise to sacrifice their means and their time and talents and their service to the church for the rest of their lives, doing whatever is asked of them by church authorities. Yes, I'd call that quite a degree of faith, all right. But I'd also say it does indeed, as has been mentioned before, fall well within the purview of II Nephi 25:23, which states, "We know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do." And in this uniquely Mormon verse the operative word is and always will be AFTER.

How is it that you presume to tell me which of the acts I do (or those of any other LDS member) are expressions, or not, of faith? If your life as a member of the church was a conglomeration of dead works, that was your faith, not mine nor anyone else's. If that's what the church was to you, what has that to do with me or anyone else?

Pick a commandment—any commandment—the simple truth is that they are all required if exaltation is the goal. God requires that we do all that he has commanded in the right place and at the right time, wherever and whenever that may be. And he requires that we do so for the right reasons. If he places me in a position to help someone in need and I choose to laugh at them instead, no ordinance of the temple is going to purge that sin from my soul. You can shove a rod up its back to make it as rigid as you like, but the commandment to receive and be faithful to temple ordinances is no less required for exaltation than is that of serving others, or being honest. The gospel of Jesus Christ is a commitment to live a certain way in order to become a certain thing—Christlike. It is not a laundry list of busy work.

Do you honestly believe that an LDS person who spends his whole life serving himself at the expense of others, all the while fulfilling the letter of the law by going to the temple and receiving ordinances there—do you honestly believe that those ordinances are going to carry the day for him in judgment; that he'll get a free pass in spite of his wilfull neglect and indifference of those he promised to serve? Do the temple ordinances release us from exercising faith? From loving others? From any other commandment? No. They compound the consequences of our failure to keep them. In the end, we are judged by what we are, not merely what we've done.

It is a simple gospel: Believe in Christ, accept and receive faith in Christ, humbly repent before Christ, be baptized as was Christ, receive the Holy Ghost which was the Comforter promised by Christ, and remain faithful to Christ by doing your best to live like him until he should take you, and you are guaranteed a place in the Celestial Kingdom to dwell with God the Father and Jesus Christ. (2 Ne. 9:23; D&C 20:29; 131:4; 132:16-17) Should you choose to take upon yourself the covenants of the temple as well, accepting freely an even greater commission of service and self-sacrifice, and should you remain faithful to Christ in those covenants as well, the promise is that you will be exalted in the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom and receive all that the Father has, including what He is. (D&C 76:50-70)

Peace to you.
SS

 

[Moodshadow]

How is it that you presume to tell me which of the acts I do (or those of any other LDS member) are expressions, or not, of faith? That's not at all what I said, and I'm not quite sure where you came up with that. If your life as a member of the church was a conglomeration of dead works, Nor was that. that was your faith, not mine nor anyone else's. If that's what the church was to you, Nor was that. what has that to do with me or anyone else?

Pick a commandment—any commandment—the simple truth is that they are all required if exaltation is the goal. "Exaltation" is Joseph Smith's made-up term.

Do you honestly believe that an LDS person who spends his whole life serving himself at the expense of others, all the while fulfilling the letter of the law by going to the temple and receiving ordinances there—do you honestly believe that those ordinances are going to carry the day for him in judgment; that he'll get a free pass in spite of his wilfull neglect and indifference of those he promised to serve? Do you honestly believe that's what I said? Do the temple ordinances release us from exercising faith? From loving others? From any other commandment? No. They compound the consequences of our failure to keep them. In the end, we are judged by what we are, not merely what we've done. No. The temple ordinances are also totally fabricated by Joseph Smith (and altered here and there by his successors) and are unrelated to anything taught by Jesus Christ.

It is a simple gospel: Believe in Christ.

 

[SoftSpoken]

It is a simple gospel: Believe in Christ.

Good call. I'll join you on that.

 

[Moodshadow]

Good call. I'll join you on that.

You're good. Oh, you are good. It wouldn't surprise me even a little bit to learn someday that you've been called by The Brethren to sit among them, because you certainly exhibit and indeed exemplify the traits they seek in The Chosen. You've got it all down, and sooner or later the right person will take notice and off you and your family will go to SLC to live among The Blessed. Before you know it you'll be in the temple making those deeper covenants, your Calling and Election will be made sure, and Brother, they will own you.

Sweet dreams.

 

[SoftSpoken]

You're good. Oh, you are good. It wouldn't surprise me even a little bit to learn someday that you've been called by The Brethren to sit among them, because you certainly exhibit and indeed exemplify the traits they seek in The Chosen. You've got it all down, and sooner or later the right person will take notice and off you and your family will go to SLC to live among The Blessed. Before you know it you'll be in the temple making those deeper covenants, your Calling and Election will be made sure, and Brother, they will own you.

Sweet dreams.

Ah yes... the dark, dirty, scandalous, sinister, senior-citizen apostles... first they take over your mind... then your wallet... then your life...

If only someone had shown me this before I joined up...
http://www.youtube.com/v/6mhh_RiEWtQ?fs=1&hl=en_US

LOL!

 

[skylark1]

A single experience of being "born again" does not alone insure salvation. It is also necessary for a person to "endure to the end," an essential element of the gospel of Christ (2 Ne. 31:20; 3 Ne. 27:16-17). The prophet Nephi taught that enduring to the end requires that one "feast upon the words of Christ," following the guidance of the Holy Ghost in "all things what ye should do" (2 Ne. 32:3-5). The gift of the Holy Ghost thus ensures that divine guidance and spiritual renewal take place throughout one's life, provided that the requisite repentance and humility are manifested.
Gift of the Holy Ghost

Looking at only this first post in this discussion, this does not appear to be an unorthodox doctrine.

John Wesley, in his sermon The Righteousness of Faith, said:

What saith then the covenant of forgiveness, of unmerited love, of pardoning mercy? "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved." In the day thou believest, thou shalt surely live. Thou shalt be restored to the favour of God; and in his pleasure is life. Thou shalt be saved from the curse, and from the wrath of God. Thou shalt be quickened, from the death of sin into the life of righteousness. And if thou endure to the end, believing in Jesus, thou shalt never taste the second death; but, having suffered with thy Lord, shalt also live and reign with him for ever and ever.​

Charles Spurgeon offered the following:

THIS PARTICULAR TEXT was originally addressed to the apostles when they were sent to teach and preach in the name of the Lord Jesus. Perhaps bright visions floated before their minds, of honor and esteem among men. It was no mean dignity to be among the twelve first heralds of salvation to the sons of Adam. Was a check needed to their high hopes? Perhaps so. Lest they should enter upon their work without having counted its cost, Christ gives them a very full description of the treatment which they might expect to receive, and reminds them that it was not the commencement of their ministry which would win them their reward, but "He that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved." It would be well if every youthful aspirant to the gospel ministry would remember this, if merely to put our hand to the plough proved us to be called of God, how many would he found so; but alas, too many look back and prove unworthy of the kingdom. The charge of Paul to Timothy, is a very necessary exhortation to every young minister: "Be thou faithful unto death." It is not to be faithful for a time, but to be "faithful unto death," which will enable a man to say, "I have fought a good fight." . . .

But, dear friends, perseverance is not the lot of the few; it is not left to laborious preachers of the Word, or to consistent Church-officers, it is the common lot of every believer in the Church. It must be so, for only thus can they prove that they are believers. It must be so, for only by their perseverance can the promise be fulfilled, "He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved." Without perseverance, they cannot be saved; and, as saved they must be, persevere they shall through divine grace.

Blue Letter Bible - Commentaries - Charles Spurgeon - Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit​

David Brown (Jamieson, Fausset & Brown Commentary):

but he that endureth to the end shall be saved--a great saying, repeated, in connection with similar warnings, in the prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem ( Mat 24:13 ); and often reiterated by the apostle as a warning against "drawing back unto perdition" ( Hbr 3:6, 13 6:4-6 10:23, 26-29, 38, 39 , &c.). As "drawing back unto perdition" is merely the palpable evidence of the want of "root" from the first in the Christian profession ( Luk 8:13 ), so "enduring to the end" is just the proper evidence of its reality and solidity.

Blue Letter Bible - Commentaries - Jamieson, Fausset & Brown - Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible​

Adam Clarke:

He that endureth to the end shall be saved—He who holds fast faith and a good conscience to the end, till the punishment threatened against this wicked people be poured out, he shall be saved, preserved from the destruction that shall fall upon the workers of iniquity. This verse is commonly understood to refer to the destruction of Jerusalem. It is also true that they who do not hold fast faith and a good conscience till death have no room to hope for an admission into the kingdom of God.​

Chuck Smith commented:

And the brother shall deliver up brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved (Mat 10:21-22).

So here we have that basis for the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints, which is oftentimes used as a contrast to those who would go to antianimism, to the extremes of the security of the believer. And there are those who press this side of the coin, "he that endures to the end," and the perseverance of the saints. Truth lies somewhere in the middle.​

 

[Moodshadow]

Ah yes... the dark, dirty, scandalous, sinister, senior-citizen apostles... first they take over your mind... then your wallet... then your life...

If only someone had shown me this before I joined up...
http://www.youtube.com/v/6mhh_RiEWtQ?fs=1&hl=en_US

LOL!

Oh, dear, where are my smelling-salts?!? I'm feigning all kinds of shock and dismay for you, here, hoping the Covenant Police don't come after you for your blatant display of lightmindedness and evil-posting of the Lord's anointed.

 

[SoftSpoken]

Oh, dear, where are my smelling-salts?!? I'm feigning all kinds of shock and dismay for you, here, hoping the Covenant Police don't come after you for your blatant display of lightmindedness and evil-posting of the Lord's anointed.

Well you started it, so if I get in trouble it's your fault!

 

[Moodshadow]

Well you started it, so if I get in trouble it's your fault!

Ah, yes, the old BLAME-IT-ON-THE-PREVIOUS-ADMINISTRATION! card. Seems to work well in Washington - why not on CF, huh?