UNderstand this...I see nothing wrong with baptism of believers. I've shown that the LDS errors when they say it is a requirement for baptism.
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LDS LDS Baptism
- Thread starter BigDaddy4
- Start date
UNderstand this...I see nothing wrong with baptism of believers. I've shown that the LDS errors when they say it is a requirement for baptism.
Again, it's not "just" an LDS belief. By saying that "baptism is not a requirement for salvation and dooms that believer" you are saying that you believe every Christian pre-1600 is doomed and >80% of modern day Christians are doomed. Why? Because they believe baptism is required for salvation. LDS consist of <1% of Christians who believe this.
You seem very quick to condemn LDS for this, but ignore the 99% of other Christians who believe this. Why is this?
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I never said an individual is doomed if they believe baptism is a requirement for salvation. I only said they are wrong about their theology and should change.
I could modify what I said above by adding this....if you believe the water actually removes your sin...and you are counting on that for salvation then you didn't put your faith in Christ Jesus alone and now are doomed until you realize it is faith in Christ alone.
I could also add that if you think God won't let you into heaven until you are baptized and put your faith in baptism as being something to check off to gain entrance into heaven..rather than have been given the righteousness of Christ Jesus...then you are doomed.
Also....there were many Christian pre-1600 who understood baptism wasn't a requirement for salvation.
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It is not the power of water that does the washing but the power of Christ behind everything. It is putting faith in Him.
Again, this is believed by >80% of modern day Christianity, whom you just declared as doomed (granted through a misunderstanding of the doctrine). Why do you ignore the other >99% of Christians you declared as doomed?
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If part of your salvation package contains the requirement of water baptism to save you....and that is what you are trusting in rather than Christ Jesus' atoning sacrificial work on the cross alone...then you are relying on a false Gospel.
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Again, Christ's sacrifice is what's "powering" a baptism.
And you again just declared the first 1600 years of Christians and >80% of Christians to be following a false Gospel. Why do you not go tell them this? The Methodists, the Lutherans, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, Catholics, Orthodox, the Brethren, Christadephians, Churches of Christ, Nazarenes, etc? Why do you not tell them that they are doomed for following a false Gospel?
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Where does the bible say Christ sacrifice is what's powering baptism?
Secondly, which of the denominations in your short list above believe baptism is required for salvation?
Thirdly....It appears to be your belief that if you're not a LDS...then you can't be saved. What do you say to all the pre-Joe Smith people?
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All. And many more.
The list of one's who don't is much shorter: Jehovah Witness, Seventh Day Adventist, Quakers, Anabaptist, Baptist, Calvary Chapel, some Evangelicals.
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OK, you claimed it...lets start with this one...Presbyterians...Present Presbyterian doctrine where they say water baptism is a requirement for salvation.
Once you've done that be ready to show where the Baptist say baptism is a requirement for salvation.
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It's there.
Source: https://www.presbyterianmission.org/what-we-believe/brief-statement-of-faith/
"The same Spirit
who inspired the prophets and apostles
rules our faith and life in Christ through Scripture,
engages us through the Word proclaimed,
claims us in the waters of baptism"
Emphasis mine. It is through the waters of baptism that a believer is claimed by the Holy Spirit.
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I would have though you would have atleast checked out what the Presbyterian site has to say on "claims us in the waters of baptism"
In their "What we believe section" on Sin and Salvation...there is no mention of baptism as a requirement.
R.C. Sproul and Ligonier Ministry (Presbyterian) explain it a bit more in this article titled Baptism and Salvation. If you care to take the time (3 min) to read it and learn exactly what they mean by "claims us in water baptism".
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The idea that you can remotely understand another faith in 3 minutes is laughable. At bare minimum I'd go with 6 months of intense study to say a person has passed Fatih XXX 101.
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We were speaking of just one issue of the faith. You claimed the Presbyterians believed you have to be baptized to be saved.
Will you realize you were incorrect on this issue and move them to the 2nd list?
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Did you look up each word of their statement and do a detailed study of what it means?
Then no.
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I am not a person to make foolish and brash assessments of another's theology based on 3 minutes of reading online. Like I said: a bare minimum of 6 months of intense study is required to understand the 101 of a another faith. During that 6 months you should attend their services at least 6 times, read their teaching literature for 100-200 hours, and ask for clarification/confirmation from active practitioners of that faith. That's the bare minimum.
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You are assuming that I have not done this level of research with other faiths.
For example, I have gathered you are some type of Baptist or Evangelical? I have attended those services/events >100 times, read explaining literature of theirs for thousands of hours, and had thousands of hours of conversations about that faith with active practitioners (including ministers). I can honestly say that I have a basic idea of what Baptists/Evangelicals believe.
Can you say the same about your research into the LDS faith?
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