LCMS names

[LutheranHawkeye]

I've been wondering for awhile now when the LCMS might change their name. The Lutheran Church Missouri-Synod is quite a mouthfull. I know its full of history, but doesn't anyone else think it could use some fixing up? What would some new good names be? Also do you think we'll ever start calling the District Presidents bishops? Just some random thoughts...

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

Don't let this one die! Be creative people and yell at me if I'm wrong about the whole bishop thing.

 

[DaRev]

Since the Missouri Synod is not a "Church" but a voluntary association of congregations who are "walking together" in doctrine and parctice (in theory, anyway), the hierarchy are not called "bishops", although they do serve as "overseers" in some capacities.

As for changing the name, while some have argued that perhaps the word "Lutheran" should be removed since it no longer means what it used to, there is a long Confessional tradition associated with the Missouri Synod that is known world wide and across denominational lines. I don't see any change in the LCMS name in the forseeable future.

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

Since the Missouri Synod is not a "Church" but a voluntary association of congregations who are "walking together" in doctrine and parctice (in theory, anyway), the hierarchy are not called "bishops", although they do serve as "overseers" in some capacities.

As for changing the name, while some have argued that perhaps the word "Lutheran" should be removed since it no longer means what it used to, there is a long Confessional tradition associated with the Missouri Synod that is known world wide and across denominational lines. I don't see any change in the LCMS name in the forseeable future.

Has the bishop name thing ever come up at a convention or anywhere as an issue? Also I still don't understand how the Missouri Synod is not a church...what is the reason for this and are there any other denominations that have this weird system?

 

[DaRev]

Has the bishop name thing ever come up at a convention or anywhere as an issue? Also I still don't understand how the Missouri Synod is not a church...what is the reason for this and are there any other denominations that have this weird system?

It's not a weird system, it's Biblical.

The word "bishop" simply means "overseer". In an eccesiastical aspect the district presidents are "bishops", however, since the synod is not a Church but a volunteer association of congregations, the district presidents and synod president are mainly organizational positions and not Church hierarchy.

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

It's not a weird system, it's Biblical.

An organization of volunteer association of congregations is more biblical than a Church:o , and I guess we have no need for bishops since they are biblical? Let's be biblical on some issues and on others lets wing it to sound like a democracy instead of a church... Oh and about the name of the LCMS...yes it makes sense if the lcms was a synod, being a part of a church body, but we need a new name! A good name would be The organization of volunteer association of congregations. OVAC. It has a nice ring like the religious society of friends. I sure wish there were sarcasm tags on here.

-Overusage of smilies was neccessary in the making of this post.

 

[C.F.W. Walther]

It's not a weird system, it's Biblical.

The word "bishop" simply means "overseer". In an eccesiastical aspect the district presidents are "bishops", however, since the synod is not a Church but a volunteer association of congregations, the district presidents and synod president are mainly organizational positions and not Church hierarchy.

Since when is the LCMS not weird

 

[C.F.W. Walther]

An organization of volunteer association of congregations is more biblical than a Church:o , and I guess we have no need for bishops since they are biblical? Let's be biblical on some issues and on others lets wing it to sound like a democracy instead of a church... Oh and about the name of the LCMS...yes it makes sense if the lcms was a synod, being a part of a church body, but we need a new name! A good name would be The organization of volunteer association of congregations. OVAC. It has a nice ring like the religious society of friends. I sure wish there were sarcasm tags on here.

-Overusage of smilies was neccessary in the making of this post.

Since LCMS is not a church body then maybe they should just leave Luther's name out of it completely. Also not affiliate themselves with Walther either. Maybe a good name would be Heretical Abuse Corp LLC. That would justify all the CEO positions. Then they could dip their fingers into the real cash of televangelists and make big bucks.

 

[C.F.W. Walther]

Or maybe "Happy-Clappy Evangelical Synod".

Or how 'bout. "CEOs-R-US".

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

Very creative Radidio. I was thinking something cute and to the point like Kieschnick's kittens but seriously folks whats the deal with us not being a church body? Who came up with this stuff?

 

[C.F.W. Walther]

Each congregation is autonomous and supposedly makes their own theological decision. That's what the word "church" means. Read our creeds. We believe in one Holy, CHristian, Apostolic church, not the synod. LCMS is a non for profit organization.. Hence the name LCMS=Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. A bunch of Lutheran churches directed from a synod.

Lutheran Synod:
Doctrinal review is the exercise of the Synod's responsibility to determine
that every doctrinal statement made in its or any of its agencies' or
auxiliaries' materials is in accord with the Scriptures and the Lutheran
Confessions.

 

[DaRev]

Very creative Radidio. I was thinking something cute and to the point like Kieschnick's kittens but seriously folks whats the deal with us not being a church body? Who came up with this stuff?

The LCMS is a church body but not a Church.

When you are ready to listen, I'll continue this conversation.

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

The LCMS is a church body but not a Church.

When you are ready to listen, I'll continue this conversation.

Ok I'm ready to listen, I am seriously confused as to why we aren't a church. I can see how all the different churches of the ILC or LWF are autonomous members of those bodies, but is it really neccessary to make every single parish autonomous in the LCMS. I'm not trying to bash the LCMS I am just confused.

 

[bdfhjlnprtvxz]

Look, if you are really that confused about it, look at this:
http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=73
this should be the "About Us" page for the LCMS website. If it doesn't work, then go to www.lcms.org and research.
To be honest, before you start asking questions about a denomination, go ahead and research the denomination first, so you might know what you're talking about.
Oh, and as for the 'bishop' thing, what I'm interpreting that DaRev is saying (correct me if I am wrong) is that just because we don't have people titled 'bishops' doesn't mean we're being unbiblical. The district president is kind of like a bishop, in that he is an 'overseer' of the people (bishop=overseer, as in DaRev's post). However, since the LCMS is not a Church, but it is a body/coalition of churches, then to call the president a 'bishop' would not be right. We're an organization, so we have presidents; if we were an individual church, then i guess you could call him a bishop.
As for changing the name, check this quote out (from the link above):
"On April 26, 1847, 12 pastors representing 15 congregations signed a constitution that established "The German Evangelical Lutheran Synod of Missouri, Ohio and Other States." Today, The Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod (the name was shortened on its 100th anniversary) has 6,150 congregations served by more than 9,000 professional church workers. You may also view additional statistics about the Synod."
This link gives a history of the LCMS: http://chi.lcms.org/lcms/synod150.htm

Now, the whole changing of the name... to be honest, there's no purpose behind changing the name. Granted, on the 100th anniversary of this Synod they shortened it, but what would be the reason for changing the name? Would it change anything else about the Synod? Honestly, if you want synodical changes, you just have to go to the conventions and see about getting other churches to try and work together towards change (good luck, btw...). But, to change the name just for the sake of it is more or less a waste of time (you'd have to send the idea through the ranks of bureacracy throughout the LCMS to try and change it, as well as have valid reasons for it, etc., etc.)

So, yeah, what's your reason for change? just for the fun of it?

Final thoughts:
Difference between Church and Church Body: Church Body is several individual churches, whereas one church is, well, one church with many different outbranch churches hanging onto one main church. Almost like a confederacy vs. an empire... i guess... horrible analogy, but eitherway...
Bishop=Overseer, President=Overseer, therefore President=Bishop. Why not call President a Bishop? Bishop belongs to individual Church, President for Organization. LCMS A church body AND an organization. therefore, since it is not a church, it doesn't call its leaders 'bishops', but 'presidents' and the like.
Name Change? Not the important factor of LCMS. Try looking at the goals of the LCMS rather than its name.

K, I guess I'm done with my rant. Hate me if you want, but don't forget to check out the links up near the top to try and learn more about the LCMS.

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

Thanks! I understand perfectly well now, but what are the advantages to having a church or a church body?

 

[C.F.W. Walther]

That's too vague of a question. Elaborate a little more.

 

[bdfhjlnprtvxz]

gah I had posted something this morning, but I guess it didn't get through...

Basically, what I said before, is that there's not really an 'advantage' to either on a general sense; both churches and church bodies are there to help develop a person's faith, so whichever one works for the individual, I guess, is more advantageous to them (if that makes sense).

It's on an individual basis rather than a general, 'one answer' basis.

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

I think I'm following what you said.

 

[bdfhjlnprtvxz]

oh, goody

is there anything else that troubles you on this topic? my apologies to DaRev for more or less taking this from them...