LCMS: Lutheran Service Book (LSB)

[filosofer]

The workshop is a week from tomorrow, but I won't being going. Too bad, because I was looking forward to it. But I have enough on my plate as it is.

In Christ's love,
filo

 

[C.F.W. Walther]

We're too far out in the boonies to have a workshop. Guess it will just be a big surprise when it gets here. Course we're still using the 1941 edition so it might take another 40 years before it gets here

 

[LutherNut]

We're too far out in the boonies to have a workshop. Guess it will just be a big surprise when it gets here. Course we're still using the 1941 edition so it might take another 40 years before it gets here

The LSB is actually closer to the 1941 TLH than to LW. I honestly believe that it will be a rather easy transition for those congregations using TLH.

 

[JFox1]

I haven't looked at it yet, but I ordered a copy. Why did they decide to make a new hymnal? What was wrong with the current one?

 

[filosofer]

There has always been a need/desire to publish a new hymnal every 20-25 years. Back in the late 1950's the LCMS began the process of updating the hymnal (TLH). However, events intervened and the publication (of LW) was delayed until 1982.

Also, there was the "jump out of sequence" problem of the Divine Services in LW. As good as LW is/was, that was a stumbling block instead an aid to worship.

In Christ's love,
filo

 

[DaRev]

I haven't looked at it yet, but I ordered a copy. Why did they decide to make a new hymnal? What was wrong with the current one?

The TLH (red) hymnal was a product of the old Synodical Conference consisting of the LCMS, WELS, ELS, and SELC back in 1941. It became the mainstay for Lutheran worship for roughly 40 years. Then, in the late 60's there was a push to "modernize" the church which prompted the development of a new hymnal. The Synodical Conference was no more, and the LCMS had wanted to develop an inter-Lutheran hymnal, and so got together with the old ALC and LCA (both of which are now part of the ELCA) and the result was the "Lutheran Book of Worship" in 1978 (currently used by the ELCA). The LCMS convention rejected this hymnal and so the result was an "updated" version prepared by the LCMS in 1982 called "Lutheran Worship."

Many congregations did not like the "modern" version of worship or the hymnody and refused to buy and use the "new blue hymnal." Many congregations purchased the LW hymnal, but also kept the TLH because they didn't like the "modern" update to the page 15 communion service. Some congregations used the "new blue" hymnal, some used the "old red" hymnal, and some used both.

So as to have a single worship and hymn resource that all LCMS congregations could use (and because CPH no longer wants to print two different hymnals) the Synod deveolped the new Lutheran Service Book. It isn't really all that "new." It is basically the best parts of both the "blue" LW and the "red" TLH hymnals bound into one book. There are some newer service orders and hymns, but at the same time it retains the traditional Lutheran liturgies and hymnodies that have been the mainstay of Lutheran worship services for many, many years.

 

[filosofer]

The TLH (red) hymnal was a product of the old Synodical Conference consisting of the LCMS, WELS, ELS, and SELC back in 1941. It became the mainstay for Lutheran worship for roughly 40 years. Then, in the late 60's there was a push to "modernize" the church which prompted the development of a new hymnal. The Synodical Conference was no more, and the LCMS had wanted to develop an inter-Lutheran hymnal, and so got together with the old ALC and LCA (both of which are now part of the ELCA) and the result was the "Lutheran Book of Worship" in 1978 (currently used by the ELCA). The LCMS convention rejected this hymnal and so the result was an "updated" version prepared by the LCMS in 1982 called "Lutheran Worship."

Just a note: the move in the late 1960's was actually only a result of the desire and interest to begin work on a new hymnal in the late 1950's while the Synodical Conference was still in existence. As that relationship began to deteriorate, the "new" hymnal moved off center stage. After the Synodical Conf. disbanded, the new hymnal took on more LCMS focus, which then invited LCA and ALC.

Remember they had recently published LSH in 1958, so it took a while before their interest was piqued, and eventually joined the effort to produce a "new" one. So, while the LCMS was the prime mover for the new hymnal (ultimately LW), it lost leadership of the new hymnal project over the decade from 1968 to 1978.

As an aftermath of the LCMS withdrawing from LBW, LCA/ALC decided not to let the LCMS use the translated Psalms from LBW for LW, which meant the LCMS was stuck looking for a replacement in a short period of time. The NIV was chosen as Psalms texts because it was NIV royalty-free (for the hymnal). Of course, that also opened the floodgate for Bibles, Studies, Catechism, etc. all based on the NIV, which more than compensated for the hymnal use. IBS/Zondervan came out far ahead on the "free-royalty" deal.

In Christ's love,
filo

 

[GlennH]

The LSB is actually closer to the 1941 TLH than to LW. I honestly believe that it will be a rather easy transition for those congregations using TLH.

I also expect that it was not a mistake that LSB is a shade of red, rather than any other color.

 

[DaSeminarian]

Today I did the liturgy in our Matins service (both early and late service) I also attended my first voter's meeting and our church has voted unanimously to get the LSB. We have been using it for about 3 months at CTS/Fort Wayne and it is by far the best we have had.

It isn't perfect though and there are some areas that they could have done better, but over all it is a good hymnal and the layout is very good as well.

I suggest that all churches should get it and then we can all be united again.

 

[Studeclunker]

As soon as this hymnal came out our congregation was forced into the use of it. The change was originally promoted as a 'test run'. It never ended. Our pastor was one of those Yuppie types that thought newer is better. The rest of us had no choice. We also never got a chance to see the book. The only copy was kept in the pastor's office.

Perhaps a new hymnal is a good idea. I wouldn't know. Having come from ELCA (originally LCA) and also being double crossed by the church leadership (the Statement On Human Sexuality) I'm not very trusting of this kind of thing. Show me the new book, let me thoroughly go through it and decide for myself. DON'T shove it down my throat!

there is so much of this watering down of doctrine and policy going on now. The edges of our belief system are beginning to atomize to the point where I don't know what many churches base their belief system on. It's certainly not the Bible. That, by the way, includes the ELCA and is why I'm in the LCMS.

I can empathise with many people who are currently trapped in the Anglican church right now. They have a church hirearchy that has lost touch with what core Christian doctrine is. With the fracas going on about their Homosexual priest, it looks like the parisioners know proper doctrine better then their leaders! A very sad situation. That's where I was with the ELCA a few years back. So, yes, I can clearly empathise with them.

It's wonderful that some people have the money and time to attend conventions, workshops, and conferences. Don't forget, please, not all of your parisioners are so blessed! This new hymnal is very different from the previous. Dont, Please I beg you, don't shove it down the other member's throats. We all have a responsibility to our fellow brothers and sisters to be kind and understanding. Please so do. Patience is a virtue! One that is beloved of God.

 

[LilLamb219]

Our pastor encouraged the congregation to go to a special program that introduced us to the new hymnal and the congregation even paid We were able to go through the hymnal and bring it home to keep which was a bigger plus! Then we set up hymnals in the foyer for others who couldn't go to this class to flip through and check it out for themselves before it went through a vote to decide if we wanted to purchase them for use.

 

[DaRev]

This new hymnal is very different from the previous.

Apparently, you don't know a whole lot about the Lutheran Service Book. It is in many ways very similar to the previous two hymnals. If a church is used to the LW (blue) hymnal, it will seem very similar to them. If a congregation used the TLH (red) hymnal, it will seem very similar to them as well. It is, in fact, the best parts of both of the previous hymnals put into one book. Congregations that now use it have found the transition to be seamless. There really isn't anything new to learn in it. But there are some new things about it. I suggest that you check out the LSB website here.

 

[Studeclunker]

Revrend, if you are referring to the new one, yes. If you are referring to the blue, than you are entitled to your opinon, no matter how biased it may be. I've carried the blue (LW) hymnal for at least twelve years. I use it at home and know it very well. I'm one of those people who can sing the liturgy without looking at the page. I'm not bragging, one generally would have it memorized after around fifteen years of every Sunday, one should hope! By the by Rev, perhaps you can tell me what page in the LW the fourth setting begins. Perhaps I'm missing a few pages in mine.



In case you did'nt read this the first time, here's my stance on the presentation of this new hymnal:

It's wonderful that some people have the money and time to attend conventions, workshops, and conferences. Don't forget, please, not all of your parisioners are so blessed! This new hymnal is very different from the previous. Dont, Please I beg you, don't shove it down the other member's throats. We all have a responsibility to our fellow brothers and sisters to be kind and understanding. Please so do. Patience is a virtue! One that is beloved of God.

Similar, is not same. Even small changes can cause a distraction during the worship service. To me this is very upsetting. I'm there to concentrate on God, not some silly change that someone just HAD to have.

I don't oppose the new hymnal. I was asking that others whom are promoting it remember that we are Christian brothers and sisters. That we are supposed to treat each other with love and respect. Not arrogance!

 

[TheCosmicGospel]

I don't think we'll be getting the new hymnal, didn't ask the pastor why when he said they weren't getting it.

It is so sad. But many pastors saw their congregations go down in flames over LW. My attendance ran over 200+ a Sunday for every Sunday but 2 or 3 times. But they switched. Next year we did not hit 200+ but 2 or 3 Sundays. That church has never recovered. So some for good reason are going to be gun shy. When momma ain't happy, no one is happy. LCMS has lost pastors and members because they failed in putting out a decent hymnal. Hopefully momma has reason to smile again.

Peace and Joy
Cosmic

We are here to serve God, not solve God. - Cosmic

 

[LutherNut]

Revrend, if you are referring to the new one, yes. If you are referring to the blue, than you are entitled to your opinon, no matter how biased it may be. I've carried the blue (LW) hymnal for at least twelve years. I use it at home and know it very well. I'm one of those people who can sing the liturgy without looking at the page. I'm not bragging, one generally would have it memorized after around fifteen years of every Sunday, one should hope! By the by Rev, perhaps you can tell me what page in the LW the fourth setting begins. Perhaps I'm missing a few pages in mine.



In case you did'nt read this the first time, here's my stance on the presentation of this new hymnal:



Similar, is not same. Even small changes can cause a distraction during the worship service. To me this is very upsetting. I'm there to concentrate on God, not some silly change that someone just HAD to have.

I don't oppose the new hymnal. I was asking that others whom are promoting it remember that we are Christian brothers and sisters. That we are supposed to treat each other with love and respect. Not arrogance!

DaRev specifically mentioned the Lutheran Service Book (new one), not Lutheran Worship (blue one).

The LSB Divine Service setting one is exactly the same as LW Divine Service 2 first setting (p. 158). LSB Divine Service setting two is the same as LW Divine Service 2 second setting (except the Lent VERSE which is the same as setting 1). LSB Divine Service setting three is almost identical to TLH (old red hymnal) page 15 communion service. The differences are minimal and most likely are not noticable to a majority of users. LSB Divine Service setting four is almost the same as the Hymnal Supplement 98 liturgy. The only difference is the Gloria, which is actually based on a familiar hymn tune. (Setting four is not in LW).

The Lutheran Service Book is superior to Lutheran Worship in numerous ways. It more closely reflects the traditional liturgies and hymnody used in the LCMS over the years. LSB was not an attempt to "modernize" the church as LW was. The LW hymnal was abismal. The LSB is a refreshing return to traditional Lutheranism in the LCMS.

And I fail to see how that is "arrogant."

 

[Studeclunker]

Did you start reading this from the beginning, Luther? My use of the word Arrogant was in referrence to the presentation of the new hymnal. Not the creation of it (though I object to that too for different reasons). If you are going to join a conversation, especially if you wish to debate a point, please pay attention.

I don't oppose the new hymnal. I was asking that others whom are promoting it remember that we are Christian brothers and sisters. That we are supposed to treat each other with love and respect. Not arrogance!

Please take note that I stated clearly that my problem is with the promotion of the hymnal, not the book per se. If we don't like the current hymnal, why not go back to it's predicessor? We can just write the blue book off to the misguided progressiveism of the fifties and sixties. It would have saved considerable sums that could have been put to a much better use (literally thousands of dollars per congregation). I suppose it's all academic now, as it's practically fait acompli.

 

[LilLamb219]

We've used the new hymnal for 2 Sundays now with a somewhat smooth transition. I've heard no complaints so far and personally I enjoy using the new book. There are so many wonderful things about it and I appreciate all the effort that went into creating it. I hope they keep this one for a while!

 

[DaRev]

Well, I for one fail to see how the presentation of it is "arrogant". Perhaps you could elaborate on what you mean by that.

The Missouri Synod is a divided church in many ways. One of the problems is the diversive use of worship materials. There has been three different hymnals in use in the synod for nearly 25 years. If someone moves to another city or visits in another church, there is no continuity in worship. The LSB solves at least this problem in the synod. It brings together the best and most widely used aspects of the three hymnals in use into one common worship resource. Those congregations that have regularly used either LW or TLH will find those parts included which are familiar and comforting. (That, BTW, is the point.) Those very few congregations who use the LBW will most likely see the biggest difference, and even that is minimal (depending on which order of service they are used to).

The new LSB hymnal is superior to any of the previous ones, and anyone who looks at it and uses it will see this. Don't write it off without at least looking at it. With all of the issues plaguing the LCMS, it's refreshing to see that they at least got this right.

 

[Studeclunker]

Well, I for one fail to see how the presentation of it is "arrogant". Perhaps you could elaborate on what you mean by that.

As soon as this hymnal came out our congregation was forced into the use of it. The change was originally promoted as a 'test run'. It never ended. Our pastor was one of those Yuppie types that thought newer is better. The rest of us had no choice. We also never got a chance to see the book. The only copy was kept in the pastor's office.

The new LSB hymnal is superior to any of the previous ones, and anyone who looks at it and uses it will see this. Don't write it off without at least looking at it. With all of the issues plaguing the LCMS, it's refreshing to see that they at least got this right.

I will repeat myself for the third time.

Dont, Please I beg you, don't shove it down the other member's throats. We all have a responsibility to our fellow brothers and sisters to be kind and understanding. Please so do. Patience is a virtue! One that is beloved of God.

Just because someone doesn't agree with your viewpoint, Revrend, does not automatically make them wrong. I will agree, LW has considerable problems. The music was abysmal. It also was another hymnal that the congregations' leaders rushed out to buy. The same thing happened in our congregation this time. Only, there wasn't the money to buy the books. So, we were using a liturgy that came out of a book we weren't allowed to examine closely.

Some of the posters in this thread have described an excellent presentation of this hymnal. That's good. All I was asking for, was a little consideration for ALL the members of your congregation. So it takes a little time for the transition. Time, is something Christians have in abundance.

 

[QuiltAngel]

Studeclunker,
Are you saying your Pastor did now allow members to see copies of LSB nor made members aware of the workshops held in the fall? The workshops were open to everyone and those who preregistered received a copy of LSB.

If your congregation was not given the opportunity to look over the hymnal, I can understand your frustration. It is my understanding that because congregations felt forced into LW that there was an effort made to not have that happen again. I think that is one of the reasons why many are going to LSB as they felt like there was ample opportunity to see and review it before deciding to use it.

I am confused which hymnal you have felt like was forced on your church.