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Laws to Follow

ViaCrucis

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Which laws in the bible does God expect us to follow? All of them? Only ones spoken about in the NT? What do we do in a case when following one rule causes another rule to be broken?

In Christianity there is what is called the Great Commandment, and it is:

"Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your mind, and with all your strength; and also love your neighbor as yourself."

St. James in his epistle calls this the "Royal Law of Love", it is the chief commandment, the Commandment of commandments.

In Christian Tradition the Decalogue or Ten Commandments are received as a sort of commentary, and thus are preserved for our benefit.

But it's important to understand that the Torah was given exclusively to the Jewish people as part of the Covenant God made with them at Sinai, it's not for everyone. That's why Christians don't concern ourselves with whether or not to wear mixed fabrics, or dietary rules, or laws governing the Levitical priesthood, etc. The Ten Commandments, while part of Torah, are received not as a Covenantal-binding set of commandments, but as a fleshing out of what it means to love God and neighbor.

There are of course other more specific commandments:

"You have heard it said an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, but I tell you do not retaliate against an evil person. If someone strikes you on the one cheek, turn and offer the other."

"You have heard it said love your neighbor and hate your enemy, but I tell you love your enemy, what good is it if you only love those who love you in return?"

"Be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect."

"Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful."

"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. Give, and it will be given unto you."

"Love one another even as I have loved you." Etc.

St. Augustine once wrote, "Once for all, then, a short precept is given thee: Love, and do what thou wilt: whether thou hold thy peace, through love hold thy peace; whether thou cry out, through love cry out; whether thou correct, through love correct; whether thou spare, through love do thou spare: let the root of love be within, of this root can nothing spring but what is good."

The point of God's Law is to reveal to us what is good, what is right, and what is just. In so doing it commands us what we must do, and simultaneously is the mirror that held up to us reveals that we do not do it; thus making us keenly aware of our sins and unrighteousness.

This is also why St. Paul says the Law cannot justify, instead, "For what the Law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the just requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." (Romans 8:3-4)

-CryptoLutheran
 
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CaseyB

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Not sure this answers my question. The "etc" at the end of your list of "other commandments" is what confuses me. How do I separate the ones to follow from the ones not to follow? Why has God made the Bible so difficult to interpret? Why has God not given us a new Bible that clarifies things so that there is no question as to what we should strive to do? To me this makes Christianity a test of whether you are able to interpret ambiguous human language and not about the desire to do what is right.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Not sure this answers my question. The "etc" at the end of your list of "other commandments" is what confuses me. How do I separate the ones to follow from the ones not to follow? Why has God made the Bible so difficult to interpret? Why has God not given us a new Bible that clarifies things so that there is no question as to what we should strive to do? To me this makes Christianity a test of whether you are able to interpret ambiguous human language and not about the desire to do what is right.

Here's a pretty good rule of exegesis: Ask the question, "Who is this being spoken to?"

Not every jot and tittle is said/written to me or to people generally. For example, an oft-quoted statement made by Paul to Timothy in 2 Timothy, "Preach the Gospel in and out of season." Saying, to the effect, that every Christian is to be an evangelist. Yet Paul writes in Ephesians that not everyone has received the same calling,

"And He gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds, and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ" (Ephesians 4:11-12)

and also, "Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?" (1 Corinthians 12:29)

Well, no, of course not. Paul's exhortation is given rather specifically to Timothy, not as a broad commandment for everyone. Not every Christian is an evangelist, and given how often Christians, especially new converts, botch up the Gospel when trying to fulfill something not specifically given them to do, it's not hard to see why. For the same reason that other ministerial callings are not for everyone, such as being a pastor, a new convert for example has no business pastoring.

Not everything in the Bible has been written to me. So when looking at the Torah, ask the question, "Who was it given to?", and if that proves confusing, consider what the Apostolic Council in Jerusalem concluded in the 15th chapter of the Acts; laying down quite definitively that Torah is not applicable to Gentile converts to Christianity.

Biblical exegesis is not always easy, but there are some basic principles we can take with us so we don't totally botch it up.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Joshua260

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Not sure this answers my question. The "etc" at the end of your list of "other commandments" is what confuses me. How do I separate the ones to follow from the ones not to follow? Why has God made the Bible so difficult to interpret? Why has God not given us a new Bible that clarifies things so that there is no question as to what we should strive to do? To me this makes Christianity a test of whether you are able to interpret ambiguous human language and not about the desire to do what is right.

Rather than being difficult, I think Jesus simplified it for us pretty well when he answered with the two great commandments: Love God with all your heart, soul, strength, and mind, and love others as you would love yourself...on these two hang all the law and the prophets. That seems pretty easy to understand and remember.
 
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ebia

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CaseyB said:
Not sure this answers my question. The "etc" at the end of your list of "other commandments" is what confuses me. How do I separate the ones to follow from the ones not to follow? Why has God made the Bible so difficult to interpret? Why has God not given us a new Bible that clarifies things so that there is no question as to what we should strive to do?
Because leaning to be a virtuous person, even in secular philosophy, doesn't reduce to a simple algorithm.

No set of rules is complete, (covers everything), finite, unambiguous and non-contradictory.
 
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St_Worm2

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Which laws in the bible does God expect us to follow? All of them? Only ones spoken about in the NT? What do we do in a case when following one rule causes another rule to be broken?

Hi CaseyB, does God expect us to follow all of the laws in the Bible? Emphatically, YES! He also commands that we do so perfectly, never failing to obey Him even a single time, or Heaven will not be our eternal home (Matthew 5:48; James 2:10). It's not a matter of "doing your best", that's human reasoning. God isn't looking for "effort", He demands absolute perfection, not because He's a big meanie, but because nothing else will allow any of us to stand in His presence.

Of course, in realizing that option #1 is really no option at all for a fallen people such as ourselves, God did provide us with a second option in which the Law becomes our tutor (paidagogos .. Galatians 3:24) and guide, instead of our judge (Romans 2:12-13).

If you're interested in knowing more about "option #2", just ask .. :)

BTW, I see you are still pretty new here, so welcome to CF .. :wave:

Yours and His,
David
 
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St_Worm2

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Why has God made the Bible so difficult to interpret? Why has God not given us a new Bible that clarifies things so that there is no question as to what we should strive to do? To me this makes Christianity a test of whether you are able to interpret ambiguous human language and not about the desire to do what is right.

Hi again .. :wave: Actually, the Bible is not that difficult to interpret properly, but I know what you mean. I was a fairly educated man, but I really never understood the Bible until the day I became a Christian, as much of what the Bible teaches us must be appraised "spiritually", not simply intellectually (1 Corinthians 2:12-16 .. esp v14 in this context). When you become a Christian, the Bible's Author becomes your 'live-in' Teacher .. :)

Yours and His,
David

"We have the mind of Christ"
1 Corinthians 2:16b
 
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paul1149

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Not sure this answers my question. The "etc" at the end of your list of "other commandments" is what confuses me. How do I separate the ones to follow from the ones not to follow? Why has God made the Bible so difficult to interpret? Why has God not given us a new Bible that clarifies things so that there is no question as to what we should strive to do? To me this makes Christianity a test of whether you are able to interpret ambiguous human language and not about the desire to do what is right.

Someone once said that the Bible is shallow enough to drink from, but deep enough to drown in. Even the Old Testament, at the very height of the Mosaic Law, tells us to keep it simple:

“For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off.
It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will ascend to heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’
Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’
But the word is very near you. It is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it. -Deut 30:11-14

And the New Testament makes this the basic dynamic of the Christian life:

who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. -2Cor 3:6

That whole chapter is well worth reading. Love fulfills the law. If you keep yourself in the love of Christ, you are going to walk in a manner pleasing to God, and you will do it from the heart, not from fear-inducing laws that cannot establish the heart in grace.

While it's a good thing to study the law to learn the principles behind it, God's main concern is intimacy, not rule-keeping. We may need law until we are perfected in love, but ultimately perfect love casts out fear and brings a joyful obedience from the heart.
 
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ViaCrucis

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That whole chapter is well worth reading. Love fulfills the law. If you keep yourself in the love of Christ, you are going to walk in a manner pleasing to God, and you will do it from the heart, not from fear-inducing laws that cannot establish the heart in grace.

But, of course, when we fail to love rightly, that Law which commands such love presses upon our backs, crushing us under its hefty weight.

Which is why it can never be about my ability to love others, I must point to something beside myself, to Someone whose love does, in fact, fulfill the Law--since the love you and I exhibit is, quote objectively, stained by the wretchedness of our sin. Even our best attempts at love fall short and rather flat. Beware the Opinio Legis--"the opinion of the law", that thing inside of us that declares, "I can make it! I can do it!"--it is a seductive temptress.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Johnnz

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Christianity is about relationship with God as the centre of our lives. Relationships can never be explained or defined by laws. Even Torah is relationship rather than a purely legal framework of rights and wrongs - Love God is the first and greatest commandment. The principles and 'laws' in Scripture express aspects of God, what we will look like as we truly follow Him.

Paul's argument in Romans states in chapter 8 that it is now the life of the Spirit that does what law could never do - keep us from sin as an internal desire, and which brings Jesus' resurrection life to us so that we too will rise above death when He returns.

John
NZ
 
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98cwitr

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Which laws in the bible does God expect us to follow? All of them? Only ones spoken about in the NT? What do we do in a case when following one rule causes another rule to be broken?

There are two laws of the Spirit

1. Love the Lord God with all your heart, soul, and mind
2. Love your neighbor [anyone] as yourself

^^^these are impossible without rebirth.
 
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CaseyB

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There are two laws of the Spirit

1. Love the Lord God with all your heart, soul, and mind
2. Love your neighbor [anyone] as yourself

^^^these are impossible without rebirth.

Simple enough. Does loving the Lord God infer that you try your best to follow the written laws of the Bible? If so, my question again becomes, which of the written laws of the Bible are we to follow?
 
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Chrisv

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Simple enough. Does loving the Lord God infer that you try your best to follow the written laws of the Bible? If so, my question again becomes, which of the written laws of the Bible are we to follow?

You can never build a lasting relationship with God if you base it in the laws you must follow. Following the laws of God is a result of a relationship with Him. You build a relationship on trust and intimate knowledge of the other party. If you love your earthly dad, what is that relationship built on?

Get to know God first and do not worry about the law. Focus on the whole story of Jesus and what He did for us. Try and see the whole story from a father's perspective until you realise how much God must love us to allow His only Son to go through what Jesus went through so that we can be saved.

Keep at it and keep thinking about it........wonder about it..... You will reach a point where you will get a understanding of God's love.

Also, read Genesis 3:16 - 19 but instead if seeing God as a vengeful God dishing out punishment, see Him as a heartbroken Father telling His children the consequences of their actions.

Have a desire to get to know Him, you will not be dissapointed.
 
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98cwitr

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Simple enough. Does loving the Lord God infer that you try your best to follow the written laws of the Bible? If so, my question again becomes, which of the written laws of the Bible are we to follow?

You cannot do the Will of God unless you are reborn and enabled by the Spirit. Again, there are only two laws to follow. Each has a many things you will do, if it is in your [new] nature to do so.
 
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GrayAngel

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It's best not to think of them as laws, I think. One should definitely read scripture and think about how it should be applied to one's personal life, but the important thing is where your heart is.

If someone treats you unfairly, do you get even? No, because then you wouldn't be loving others as yourself (and this applies to even your enemies).

If you see a need that you are capable of filling, should you fill it? Certainly.

By loving people, we show our love for God. We love God by living our lives in a way that makes Him look good.

Paul even admitted that there is some room for grey area, and told us not to criticize. If we feel like something is a sin, we should avoid it, because it would be sin to us. But if we do not see something as a sin (based not only on our feelings, but also on our personal understanding of scripture), then it is fine.

Romans 14:13-23 - Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.

Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.

So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
 
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Harry3142

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CaseyB-

The laws and commandments of Torah (the first 5 books of the Old Testament), including The Ten Commandments, were never intended to cause anyone to become perfect. Their sole purpose was as a foundation on which the Hebrews could build a strong and cohesive society. Even the promise made as a reward for the Hebrews' keeping of those 613 laws was purely a societal one:

If you pay attention to these laws and are careful to follow them, then the Lord your God will keep his covenant of love with you, as he swore to your forefathers. He will love you and bless you and increase your numbers. He will bless the fruit of your womb, the crops of your land - your grain, new wine and oil - the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks in the land that he swore to your forefathers to give you. You will be blessed more than any other people; none of your men or women will be childless, nor any of your livestock without young. The Lord will keep you free from every disease. He will not inflict on you the horrible diseases you knew in Egypt, but he will inflict them on all who hate you. (Deuteronomy 7:12-15,NIV)

That's it; there is the contract which God agreed to. It was a very pragmatic, here-and-now agreement, with their loyalty to the laws of Torah causing their society as a whole to grow and prosper. But there it ended. There was to be no thought of there being an afterlife, muchless their earning a place in that afterlife through their keeping of these laws.

So how did laws that were purely societal in the Old Testament get the title of being salvific in the New Testament? It was through other laws being attached to each of the original laws via subsets. The Sabbath commandment alone had over 1,000 laws attached to it via a subset, and the other commandments had similar subsets attached to them. There weren't 613 laws which needed to be followed in order to earn salvation; there were well over 10,000 laws which needed to be followed in order to earn salvation. It was legalism gone berserk.

That is why we read in Scripture that God himself performed all that was necessary in order to provide us with eternal life. The righteousness we need in order to have assurance of eternal life is a righteousness that is equal to God's own. And that righteousness we cannot earn as if it were a salary, nor can we purchase it as if it were an asset. There is only one means of obtaining it, and that is through permitting God himself to give it to us:

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished - he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. (Romans 3:19-26,NIV)

and-

What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. they stumbled over the "stumbling stone." As it is written:

"See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame." (Romans 9:30-33,NIV)

We have assurance of salvation not because of what we have done, but rather because of what God himself has done. He has accomplished all that is necessary for our salvation, and now freely offers that salvation to all who will accept it as it is being offered.

And how do we repay this gift of salvation? We don't. In fact, in order to ensure that we live lives worthy of being called 'Christian', God freely gives us another gift, namely, the gift of his Spirit's indwelling within us. And it is through the actions of his Spirit, rather than our own, that we become capable of behaving in the manner that God wants of us:

So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. (Galatians 5:16-26,NIV)

The motivations listed as 'the acts of the sinful nature' are the same motivations which we are all born with. They are also the root cause of all sinful acts, but they are as much a part of us as our eye color. So rather than our subduing them (an impossible task), God himself subdues them via his Spirit.

However, God also implants within us a new nature (the fruit of the Spirit). And it is through the motivations contained in this new nature that we become capable of living our lives in the manner that God wants of us. Rather than our attempting to follow a set of laws, the very motivations which need to be the impetus for our actions are implanted within us. And it is through these motivations' being the origin of our actions that those actions have assurance of conforming to God's will.

Laws can be 'danced around'; motivations can't. So it is the motivations which culminate in our actions which confirm our faith. And for both our salvation and these motivations we need to give God the credit, because they are both gifts from him to us. God bless-
 
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