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nephilimiyr said:Hi Asinner
In the Hebrew language of the Bible, the word translated is giants. There have been different ways in which to say what this word means but most say it means a "feller", an old English word that connotes a bully or a tyrant as well as a very large being. Some say it means "fallen ones", of which I disagree.
It's used in the Genesis 6:4 verse where it describes a certain offspring of human women and the sons of God, which I believe were angelic beings.
LOL, nothing like opening up a controversial theology in the midst of this kind of thread.
nephilimiyr said:Hi Asinner
In the Hebrew language of the Bible, the word translated is giants. There have been different ways in which to say what this word means but most say it means a "feller", an old English word that connotes a bully or a tyrant as well as a very large being. Some say it means "fallen ones", of which I disagree.
It's used in the Genesis 6:4 verse where it describes a certain offspring from human women and the sons of God, which I believe were angelic beings.
LOL, nothing like opening up a controversial theology in the midst of this kind of thread.
nephilimiyr said:I pretty much agree with you, I don't mind disscussing theology, in fact that is why I'm here at GT. I also agree with Orthodoxyusa in that if you want to discuss all the Protestant beliefs it shouldn't be done in one thread.
And I might add, maybe I don't have as thick of skin as the most of you do but I have found some of your fellow Catholics to be most ungraceous and unkind. I could use a few other choice adjectives but I wont break the rules.
Now you may say that you have had to deal with the same thing here but by Protestants and I will agree that there are some Protestant posters who fit that discription also but you engage in debate with them by your own choice, I also have a choice and say since I don't have to, I will not.
When I come to a Christian message board I feel everyone should be extending a certain amount of respect, grace, love and kindness towards whomever they are talking to no matter whether they agree with each other or not. When this doesn't take place I reserve the right to leave the discussion and not partake of the rudeness, childishness, and lack of love or kindness. See I don't believe it's the right thing to do to start acting like others do when I know they are conducting themselves in less than a Christian manner. My weakness is that I sometimes do tend to do that and that's why I can't stick around in such threads.
Thank you WarriorAngel, you have proven to me to be a wise angel indeed. You're right about me and my useing conjecture and all and will take what you said to heart.WarriorAngel said:Ahhh, I know how you feel.But break down some points...take a few and give what you feel it means.
I suppose the differences of the different sects all confuse me, so what is YOUR POV?
If you need, go to the OP or another one, and show us how you conclude sola scriptura into your doctrine.
Example; TULIP....was mentioned above, and now we await how scripture concludes it.
Honestly I don't always. I sometimes ignore rudeness. And hope it quits.
This is why I wish threads could stick to points and not personal jabs......and admittedly I had to learn to overlook rude remarks so I would not engage myself in the debate that led no where fast. But leading me to trouble.
See, but this is of your opinion.
Fact is, it is a thread. Fact is not whether he did it in a mean spirited way.
AND if you are concerned about Apostolic Succession...which could take me a long while to explain, but would rather you look online to the Popes successors..
and possibly if you can, get a hold of copies of the original texts or so from ancient history from Ireneaus' Peter's Chairs line, and then from other writers who kept track of such thing.
It is quite difficult to state it without the parchments, but much easier to see for yourself.
Would seeing be believing I wonder?
Again Neph, you cannot state you hate something, then do it. Pardon, but please try not to use conjecture of what YOU FEEL he is doing, yet instead just follow the course of action, and do not allow feelings to follow you.
If you wish to convey your teachings, you may also make a thread if you wish to avoid hard feelings you may have assumed thru debating my Catholic brother.
No one does force another to make a comment on any thread.
Nor do they force us to have feelings....we always have control. Although I completely understand frustration.
I made a thread b4 I saw your reply, about Apostolic Tradition and such.
THIS is why for a Catholic, we do not use sola scriptura, and never have.
It just didnt exist [the Bible as a whole] until 400 years later.
Well, leaving that for another thread.
Splayd said:I'm quite happy to go through these things, but might I suggest a better approach to that list?
[General Protestant Beliefs]
1. Why do Protestants believe in Sola Fide?
2. Why do Protestants believe in Sola Scriptura?
3. How do Protestants maintain that they have any sort of unity, while their beliefs often differ?
Realistically, outside of these 3 things the rest of the things on the list are:
a) asking us to comment on your beliefs, not ours
b) Specific beliefs that aren't common to all and might be better addressed in threads on "what Calvinists believe" or "what (insert other group here) believe"
c) Potshots, unrelated to any beliefs
Nevertheless, if you wanted to keep them they might be better addressed in the following subcategories:
[Catholic beliefs]*
Why don't Protestants accept the RCC understanding of:
4. Veneration of Saints
5. Apostolic Succesion
6. Tradition
[Other beliefs - for those that hold them]
Why do you believe:
7. OSAS
8. TULIP
9. The Lord's Supper is symbolic
10. Baptism is unecessary
As I've stated from the outset, I think you're trying to cover too much here, but a clear and fair presentation of the list might help.
As I've also stated I'm more than happy to make a biblical and reasoned defense for those beliefs I hold, but I'm not going to even bother playing the game at all if it's not played respectfully.
JCrawf said:But hey, I'll be a martyr
JCrawf said:for fairness on GT. Go ahead those of you who fear being questioned about your faith and having fairness on GT, press the button and prove me right.
racer said:Noting that certain protestants say certain negative things about your faith does not in turn give you the right to "slander" protestants as a whole.
You have made certain comments to me in retaliation for what has been done or said to you or about your faith by others. I pointed out to you that I had not done these things and your response was, "whatever."
We can (all of us) sit here all day long and bemoan how biased the forums are against us, but what do we solve. If some people weren't so thin skinned and hitting those "report" buttons everytime the perceived an insult, the present situation would not be as it is at CF. As Christians we should have much tougher hide that we apparently do.
Oh, BTW, the "persecution/martyr complex" is really out of date.
There is a major difference between questioning someone about their faith and outright calling them atheists because they disagree with a aspect of your faith.
racer said:There is a major difference between questioning someone about their faith and outright calling them atheists because they disagree with a aspect of your faith.
Splayd said:Actually - I know a LOT more Catholics than I do Protestants and I'd have to say that in my experience the average Protestant has a much better understanding of what they believe and a greater conviction about their beliefs than the average Catholic does. In fact, I get paid by Catholics to teach Catholics what Catholics believe and I'm Protestant. In my day to day life I interact with about 1000+ Catholics, specifically to discuss religion. Despite the fact I know relatively little about Catholicism, I know more about and have more conviction towards many Catholic beliefs than any Catholic I personally know. Truth is - the bulk of our beliefs are common. It's just that not all Protestants all agree on all the little details of our collective beliefs. I'm not sayin this makes Protestants any better or worse, just that your point doesn't seem particularly relevant when I observe it in my world.
JCrawf said:BTW, for the record, it was St. Augustine that said they were unbelievers because they didn't believe in the true presence in the Eucharist. St
So the best of the best are those with inflated church attendance records? Yikes.PaulAckermann said:I suspect that you are comparing the best of Protestantism with the worst of Catholicsm, which is an unfair comparison. Many times the comparison is with Catholics in general, in which most of them are admittedly very lukewarm and ignorant of their faith, to Protestant of a particular denomination or denominations. That is a inaccurate comparison.
If you going to compare all of Catholicsm, then you should compare with all of Protestantism - the good and the bad. So if you compare all Catholicsm to all of Protestantism (that means all the Episocopaleans, the Untited Methodists, The United Church of Christ, the Unitarians, and even those who are on the fringe of Protestantism - Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormon, Scientologists, etc), you will see that the comparison is pretty much even.
If you want to compare the best with the best, then compare the best of Catholicsm to the best of Protestantism. For instance, compare Catholics who go to daily Mass with those Protestants go to church daily (are there any Protestants who go to Church daily?). Or compare Catholics who attend Opus Dei Evenings of Recollections with those Protestant who attend mid-week Bible studies. If you compare the best to the best, Catholicsm would come out favorable. I have went to both Protestant Bible Studies and to Opus Dei, and I find more depth in those who go to Opus Dei.
racer said:No he didn't. I've already provided evidence. No matter how you try to contort it, it's on the boards for all to see.
Fine. Pick ONE issue that Cat/Ortho has an issue with, and I can tell you why I believe what I do about it. I cannot however, speak for every protestant.JCrawf said:BTW, so the thread doesn't get hijacked by a subject that has nothing to do with the OP, please review the OP: Post 1
I'm sure there are more questions to add to the list.
Pax Vobiscum,
John
Uphill Battle said:Fine. Pick ONE issue that Cat/Ortho has an issue with, and I can tell you why I believe what I do about it. I cannot however, speak for every protestant.
CardinalBaseball said:Hey JCrawf, you post as if all Protestants have the same beliefs. If you want answers, doing such a thing won't get you them.
True. Nor is there any reasonable answer to why all R.C.C. don't hold to the same teachings, and also if The R.C.C. and Orthodox schisim was over an iota, that their beliefs are so different as well.JCrawf said:The fact that one Protestant can't speak in any universality regarding Protestant faith is one of my top questions. Why is it impossible? Is God a God of confusion that he would tell one denomination what is true to them, but yet false to another denomination?
This seems like a valid enough question. Not sure why it seems not to be allowable to ask, nor has there ever been any reasonable answer to it either.
Pax Tecum,
John
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