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Large scale evaluation of Homosexual genetics and the politics of representing findings

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Brightmoon

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I’m thoroughly confused now !
I read some of that paper and the authors state a few times that nonheterosexual behavior is polygenic . Which is a fancy way of saying that a lot of genes control the behavior. I don’t see how anyone could come to a conclusion that the paper denies a genetic component to nonheterosexual behavior
EACD8661-32DA-4CEA-A3E4-CC1323AD1305.jpeg
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JIMINZ

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If I weigh a sack of flour, how is my measurement skewed if God isn't in the equation? Are talking on the order of nanograms? micrograms? milligrams? What?

The discussion is not about flour is it?
Therefore it doesn't matter Nano, Micro, Milli. does it?
When you catch up with what the discussion is about, you can try again.
 
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Brightmoon

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The discussion is not about flour is it?
Therefore it doesn't matter Nano, Micro, Milli. does it?
When you catch up with what the discussion is about, you can try again.
you thoroughly missed the point he was trying to make
 
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Tanj

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Okay, but that doesn't follow from your study, which concluded as low as 8% of same sex behaviours could be construed as genetic variants. If anything, it supports Psychosocial factors at play therefore, so theoretically Cognitive Behavioural Therapy should be able to alter the behaviours if someone so wishes, in most of the population in question.

Pretty sure belief in Christianity has 0% genetic basis, so theoretically Cognitive Behavioural Therapy should be able to alter the behaviours if someone so wishes, in most of the population in question.
 
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Quid est Veritas?

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Pretty sure belief in Christianity has 0% genetic basis, so theoretically Cognitive Behavioural Therapy should be able to alter the behaviours if someone so wishes, in most of the population in question.
What a bizarre post. Yes, that is how people become atheist, by convincing themselves that God does not exist. Don't understand the relevance here in any way, shape, or form though.
 
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Tanj

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What a bizarre post. Yes, that is how people become atheist, by convincing themselves that God does not exist. Don't understand the relevance here in any way, shape, or form though.

Not at all, I was suggesting we could submit Christians to cognitive behaviour therapy to get rid of their belief. Because thats how it works, according to you. Not genetic == changeable by behaviour therapy. Of course, I understand God descended from the heavens and personally appointed you as arbiter of what should be changed, but still.
 
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Quid est Veritas?

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I’m thoroughly confused now !
I read some of that paper and the authors state a few times that nonheterosexual behavior is polygenic . Which is a fancy way of saying that a lot of genes control the behavior. I don’t see how anyone could come to a conclusion that the paper denies a genetic component to nonheterosexual behavior View attachment 262126 .
That was why they did this study, as homosexuality seemed to run in families. It concluded inherited factors may play a part in 8 to 25% of the population, based on these half million investigated genomes. Other factors may be inherited propensities to risky behaviour or so, which may play a part, but certainly not directly.
 
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Quid est Veritas?

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Not at all, I was suggesting we could submit Christians to cognitive behaviour therapy to get rid of their belief. Because thats how it works, according to you. Not genetic == changeable by behaviour therapy. Of course, I understand God descended from the heavens and personally appointed you as arbiter of what should be changed, but still.
They did, or at least the antecedants of it: Soviet Union, Maoist China, Etc. It was a treatment for what the Soviets called Tardive Schizophrenia, the refusal to accept the truth of materialism and the dialectic.

Never said it should be changed, just it could potentially be, which differs from the conclusion drawn.

Ad hominem comments are not required.
 
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Skreeper

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No single gene associated with being gay

"The Harvard and MIT researchers concluded genetics could account for between 8-25% of same-sex behaviour across the population, when the whole genome is considered."

I read this, and thought, that is interesting, so it supports psychosocial factors or developmental ones being the primary cause in most cases. But the article concludes:

"Fah Sathirapongsasuti, senior scientist at 23andMe, added; "This is a natural and normal part of the variation in our species and that should also support precisely the position that we shouldn't try and develop gay 'curism'. That's not in anyone's interest."

--

Okay, but that doesn't follow from your study, which concluded as low as 8% of same sex behaviours could be construed as genetic variants. If anything, it supports Psychosocial factors at play therefore, so theoretically Cognitive Behavioural Therapy should be able to alter the behaviours if someone so wishes, in most of the population in question.

Further:
"David Curtis, honorary professor at the UCL Genetics Institute, University College London, said: "This study clearly shows that there is no such thing as a 'gay gene'.

There is no genetic variant in the population which has any substantial effect on sexual orientation.

Even if homosexuality is not genetically determined, as this study shows, that does not mean that it is not in some way an innate and indispensable part of an individual's personality."

--

Yes, true. However it argues against an innate developmental natural variance, usually allied to genetic expression or epigentics, and more towards the personality having been formed by society or upbringing. Personalities are forged by your circumstance, your 'nurture' too.

Finally:
"Zeke Stokes, from the LGBT media advocacy organisation GLAAD, said: "This new research re-confirms the long-established understanding that there is no conclusive degree to which nature or nurture influence how a gay or lesbian person behaves."

--

Yes. No conclusive manner, though it argues far more strongly for Nurture than Nature, but the entire article was written in such a way to muddy that simple fact. This study frankly says nothing about Nurture, so why does it 'reconfirm' that we don' t know its influence? If we must have a cause, if not genetic in at least 75%, then it must be Psychosocial or Developmental ie Nurture or factors around it. If sexual attraction and gender is merely a construct, as many on the left seem to argue, why are they so reticent when it comes to same sex attraction?

Here is the original study:

Large-scale GWAS reveals insights into the genetic architecture of same-sex sexual behavior | Science

It has just under a half million participants, with fairly good confidence intervals.

Personally, I don't care that much if my homosexuality is based on genetics or some other things.

The important thing to remember is that we do not choose our sexual orientation just like we don't choose what food we like or what music sounds good.

Also it's important to keep in mind that you can't change your sexual orientation. People working for conversion therapy can electroshock gay people as much as they want but it won't change their sexuality.
 
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Belk

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Which go's right back to my original post.

Science has always managed to leave God out of the equation, by doing so the results always have been and are always going to be skewed.

Except the results are not skewed. They have been and continue to work fine.

You see, God has looked at our Society and determined, it (Society Itself) is the root cause of the Homosexual issue in the first place, which was demonstrated and explained, the effect is, God has therefore Cursed our Society with the Proliferation of Decadence and Immorality which brought about the Homosexuality issue in the first place.

Did you seriously try to claim you know the determinations of an all powerful deity?

You can believe it or not, you can like it or not, it really does not matter what you think or believe on the matter.

The plane fact of the matter is, God is in complete control of ALL of HIS Creation whether you like it or not, you do not have a say in the matter.

You can analyse it test and measure it, your results will always be wrong.

Except the results are not wrong. That is why we test them.

I'm telling you plain and simple, Homosexuality in our Society is the natural outcropping of the Decadence, Immorality within our Society.

Are you able to give me ONE example within some Strata of our Society, where Homosexuality is not seen, where the conditions unique to itself within that Strata has managed to not produced a Homosexual?

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ETC.

Almost like it has a genetic component.

It's not Mental, Physical, Environmental but it most certainly is Spiritual.

So many have claimed.

I know you will completely discount and disregard everything I have said, but that doesn't matter, because it's the truth.

Just like the truth was lonely women needed to be burned since they were witches. You are no more in possession of the truth then any other human being. Even less so because you deny things we have actual evidence for.
 
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pitabread

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Science has always managed to leave God out of the equation, by doing so the results always have been and are always going to be skewed.

Here's a thought experiment for you:

How would you devise a scientific experiment to determine if God's intervention is actively required for the growth of plants?

If you can't come up with a reliable and demonstrable methodology for the above experiment, then perhaps you'll understand why God is not in the realm of scientific inquiry.

I know you will completely discount and disregard everything I have said, but that doesn't matter, because it's the truth.

Declaring something as "truth" without an objective, demonstrable methodology to verify it doesn't count for much. What you have is an opinion with no way of verifying said opinion.
 
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St. Helens

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MOD HAT ON
Thread closed permanently due to posts violating the following.
Physical & Life Sciences Statement of Purpose
Homosexuality, Same-Sex Marriage, Bisexuality and Transgenderism/Transexualism:Discussion of these topics must comply with the sitewide rule barring the promotion of homosexuality, same-sex marriage, bisexuality, and transgenderism/transexualism. Discussion and debate should only be directed toward political, legal, historical and civil rights issues, and should not be directed toward the morality of homosexuality, same-sex marriage, bisexuality or transgenderism/transexualism.

MOD HAT OFF
 
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